Which Fi sub for Home Theater??

[Randal Johnson 544]

Very nice set up Sir ...

On day I hope to get back to working on my Home Audio / Video System ...

[edoggrc51 0]

Thanks for the compliments guys

[azagtoth502 31]

That is damn nice! What are those towers you have? I take it they sound great.

[edoggrc51 0]

They are AV123 LS6's. I've had them for a few years now and absolutely love them.

[nem 2,019]

They are AV123 LS6's. I've had them for a few years now and absolutely love them.

Here is a link for those who want to know about those awesome towers.

http://www.stereomojo.com/LS6%20review/AV123LS6review.htm

I know this is of no help for his sub question.

[Impious 1,476]

Flat to 8hz sealed isn't going to happen unless you have significant room gain. Hell, most electronics aren't going to be flat down to 8hz.

Could you please explain this? Reason I ask is because I've seen quite a few builds with people using using sealed subs and getting flat responses well into single digits. I realize all rooms are different, which is why I'm not opposed to adding more subs to increase output. But I'm thinking 4 Q's (or 2 of the SP4's as you suggested) might be a good start.

I guess I'll sort of revise my previous comments. Flat to single digits is "possible".....but with the inherent roll off characteristics of a sealed enclosure and displacement limitations it's not as simple as tossing subs in a sealed enclosure, sticking them in your room and calling it good. It would likely require some substantial EQ work and probably some luck with the room gain. I'm not familiar with the SMS-1 to know what it does, so I honestly don't know what EQ power you have available to you. But the main problem with trying to dig that deep sealed (aside from the inherent frequency response of the enclosure) is that sealed enclosures rely entirely on displacement for generating output. For every one octave decrease in frequency you need to quadruple displacement to maintain the same SPL. So if you are at 110db at 30hz, you would need quadruple displacement to have the same SPL at 15hz, then quadruple it again to have the same SPL at 7.5hz. So between 30hz and 8hz you would need a 16x increase in displacement to maintain the same SPL. This ofcourse doesn't consider the effects of room gain, which will help some. But my guess would be that the people getting flat to single digits with sealed enclosures end up having to reduce the output of the system at higher frequencies to keep the frequency response itself flat that low in frequency.......or they have a significant amount of room gain.

Not to mention the drivers are probably operating at (or possibly over) Xmax at those very low frequencies, which increases distortion. Obviously you aren't going to hear the 2nd harmonic with a sub 15hz frequency, but possibly the 3rd, 4th and 5th harmonics are going to start reaching into the audible frequency spectrum which may color the sound if the distortion is severe enough. On the other hand with a LLT you are minimizing excursion at those very low frequencies which reduces driver generated distortion.

I'll readily admit HT isn't my forte, I'm just extending basic audio principles over to that realm. My opinion would be an LLT would be a more efficient and better performing means to the end you are trying to achieve.

[edoggrc51 0]

I thought about going the LLT route, but it seems what they gain in the low frequencies they lack in the mid-bass area. I've seen guys run MBM's when using LLT's. I just don't have the room to have huge LLT's AND some MBM's.

It seems most of the guys getting into single digits are running the LMS ultra (actually between 4-8 of them) in a sealed configuration. I guess I'm trying to copy that using a Fi driver.

[cloud77 28]

Why 18s? I'm sure 15s would suit your desired frequency ranges just fine..

[Punkeyboozter 19]

Why 18s? I'm sure 15s would suit your desired frequency ranges just fine..

More cone area is better...especially if you take into account the extra amount of woofers required to produce that extra output in the super low Freq range.

Example a 8" driver can be very loud in a big room but will never give you that presence a 18 or whatever will give you.

[edoggrc51 0]

Why 18s? I'm sure 15s would suit your desired frequency ranges just fine..

I've had 6 ported 15in subs at one point in my room. They had plenty of output but just didnt have the presence my dual 18's do.

[ssh 924]

Why 18s? I'm sure 15s would suit your desired frequency ranges just fine..

I've had 6 ported 15in subs at one point in my room. They had plenty of output but just didnt have the presence my dual 18's do.

I'm curious as I've never been in a big HT setup, can you hear it or feel it outside your house? Just curious if it presents any problems with neighbors, or if pretty much just stays inside the house.

Sorry for going off topic.

[edoggrc51 0]

Why 18s? I'm sure 15s would suit your desired frequency ranges just fine..

I've had 6 ported 15in subs at one point in my room. They had plenty of output but just didnt have the presence my dual 18's do.

I'm curious as I've never been in a big HT setup, can you hear it or feel it outside your house? Just curious if it presents any problems with neighbors, or if pretty much just stays inside the house.

Sorry for going off topic.

Our home is fairly new (well built) and the closest neighbor is about 25ft away, so i really dont have any problems with that. Ive played music/movies before at reference levels and stepped outside to see how "loud" it was. Unless youre within a couple of feet from the house you really dont hear much. Now at our old townhouse that had a common wall, forget it! The cops were over ALL the time.

[Punkeyboozter 19]

Also if its the bass you are concerned about its hard to track it down, unless you have the mids and highs screaming along with it.

[Impious 1,476]

I thought about going the LLT route, but it seems what they gain in the low frequencies they lack in the mid-bass area. I've seen guys run MBM's when using LLT's. I just don't have the room to have huge LLT's AND some MBM's.

It seems most of the guys getting into single digits are running the LMS ultra (actually between 4-8 of them) in a sealed configuration. I guess I'm trying to copy that using a Fi driver.

I guess off hand I don't see any reason an LLT would suffer significantly in the midbass frequencies up to a typical crossover frequency. Inductance and other factors are a larger determinant of high frequency response. I guess the size might require they be placed in some less than ideal locations for midbass response. For example, look at the response between 50-150hz in these two threads, the response is nearly identical. Same sub, different enclosures. The response through the "midbass" is nearly identical, with the added benefit of extended low frequency response and lower distortion.

TC2000 sealed

TC2000 "quasi"-LLT

I'm not trying to sell you an LLT. I just think it would be a better solution. If that's not your cup of tea and you want to stick sealed with a Fi sub, I think I would still probably stick with the SP4. Out of their line up it's probably the best solution for your goals either way. It still requires huge sealed enclosure volumes, but it'll offer the best low frequency extension and maximum displacement capabilities compared to any of their other drivers.

[ssh 924]

Also if its the bass you are concerned about its hard to track it down, unless you have the mids and highs screaming along with it.

I just wondered, since I like to respect others, but also enjoy loud listening volumes at time, thankfully that's easy to do in a car 80% of the time.

[edoggrc51 0]

Also if its the bass you are concerned about its hard to track it down, unless you have the mids and highs screaming along with it.

I have all the other frequecies (above 60hz) covered with the line arrays and the 500watt monoblocks that power them.

[edoggrc51 0]

I thought about going the LLT route, but it seems what they gain in the low frequencies they lack in the mid-bass area. I've seen guys run MBM's when using LLT's. I just don't have the room to have huge LLT's AND some MBM's.

It seems most of the guys getting into single digits are running the LMS ultra (actually between 4-8 of them) in a sealed configuration. I guess I'm trying to copy that using a Fi driver.

I guess off hand I don't see any reason an LLT would suffer significantly in the midbass frequencies up to a typical crossover frequency. Inductance and other factors are a larger determinant of high frequency response. I guess the size might require they be placed in some less than ideal locations for midbass response. For example, look at the response between 50-150hz in these two threads, the response is nearly identical. Same sub, different enclosures. The response through the "midbass" is nearly identical, with the added benefit of extended low frequency response and lower distortion.

TC2000 sealed

TC2000 "quasi"-LLT

I'm not trying to sell you an LLT. I just think it would be a better solution. If that's not your cup of tea and you want to stick sealed with a Fi sub, I think I would still probably stick with the SP4. Out of their line up it's probably the best solution for your goals either way. It still requires huge sealed enclosure volumes, but it'll offer the best low frequency extension and maximum displacement capabilities compared to any of their other drivers.

Thanks for the links. I wonder how mid-bass would be affect (if any) by an LLT that was tuned to say 10hz??

I did send an email to Fi today, hopefully they'll get back to me soon. I have family in Vegas and will visting them next month. I'd love to stop by and pick up some drivers while im out there.

[Punkeyboozter 19]

Also if its the bass you are concerned about its hard to track it down, unless you have the mids and highs screaming along with it.

I have all the other frequecies (above 60hz) covered with the line arrays and the 500watt monoblocks that power them.

Yeah those towers look dope and the price is very attractive. Are they laminated or is it a hardwood overlay?

Im actually a big dynaudio fanboy. Mind telling us how they sound...or maybe compare them to something else on the market. The only proper line arrays I have heard were some Mac setups and they were really awesome.

[edoggrc51 0]

Also if its the bass you are concerned about its hard to track it down, unless you have the mids and highs screaming along with it.

I have all the other frequecies (above 60hz) covered with the line arrays and the 500watt monoblocks that power them.

Yeah those towers look dope and the price is very attractive. Are they laminated or is it a hardwood overlay?

Im actually a big dynaudio fanboy. Mind telling us how they sound...or maybe compare them to something else on the market. The only proper line arrays I have heard were some Mac setups and they were really awesome.

I bellieve they are laminated.

I have had a bunch speakers come through my HT the last few years Rocket 850's, Paradigm 100's, just to name a few). And while they were all great speakers, none of them compare to the LS6's. They sound awesome for HT, but music (at least IMO) is where they really shine. The soundstage is GIGANTIC (especially since getting the monoblocks), the mids and highs are perfectly balanced, and the bass is EFFORTLESS (they extend down to 20hz). It really doesnt matter how high or low the volume is, it doesnt matter if im playing hip hop, R&B, Rock, Blues, or jazz, they play Snoop just as great as they do Clapton.

Hope that helps.

[blakflash 1]

I've had a very good experience with using 2 Fi X's at 800 watts on a qsc amp. I would suggest th sp4 from Fi, or go with with the TC sounds Pro or Ultra. Looking at your setup I would suggest TC sounds. You can go to their website but as of right now partsexpress is the only online dealer that I've found so far. For more info on enclosures i would suggest posting on the TC forums. There are several very knowledgeable people on there that can give you suggestions.

[edoggrc51 0]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I've decided to go with 8 18in SSD's. I had an LMS ultra before and It was awesome. But I I can get 8 FI's vs 2 Ultras for close to the same money. I thought about the SP4 but the guys at Fi recommended the 8 SSD's vs. 4 SP4's.

[Punkeyboozter 19]

Thats a lot of bass that will take up a lot of space. What will u power them with?

[edoggrc51 0]

Thats a lot of bass that will take up a lot of space. What will u power them with?

The plan is to build 4 dual opposed cabinets and stack a pair in each of the rear corners, so that'll help with the amount space it'll take up.

Im gonna probably use an FP14000 LG clone amp. If i wire them correctly i'll get a 4ohm load per stack (4 drivers), which would be perfect for the 4400watts (@ 4ohms) per channel the amp puts out.

[Punkeyboozter 19]

Have u sorted the electrical?

[Dangrebel 89]

Damn son!!!!!!!!!! Um 190's@5hz here we come!!!!!!!!!