T-line for RF T0 10"

[RAM_Designs 25]

This is a transmission line enclosure for a RF T0 10" subwoofer. The line is tuned to 40hz, and poly-fill will be added to drop the tuning and tame resonances if needed.

Dimensions: 32"x12"x12"

Tuning: 40hz

[edouble101 314]

What are the benefits of this design?

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Looks good!

Can you teach me to use Sketchup like that ...

[emh9009 199]

What are the benefits of this design?

It takes up unnecessary space and it's the cool thing to do, because it's different!

I really have no idea, but wanted to give RAM props on his skillz

[altoncustomtech 773]

Looks good!

Can you teach me to use Sketchup like that ...

^^^ This exactly. I've played with it many times and can do some work in it, but nothing like that or that fast.

Damnit, I just need more spare time in my life.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

[Damnit, I just need more spare time in my life.

Don't we all!

[RAM_Designs 25]

What are the benefits of this design?

The main benefit is being able to dig low on limited power. Overall output is generally on par or slightly less than an optimal ported enclosure while using the same power, but the t-line can't handle as much power. Most of the time I do not recommend running a t-line if you are going to run at least rated power to the sub, as you can get more output out of a ported box that will allow you to fully use the power that you have available. I have found them to be good as a low-power application sort of thing, since the box is designed to not load the woofer, allowing the sub to excurt more at a given power level vs a ported box. And they really don't have to be that big. If you don't mind sacrificing a little output, you can do a diminishing taper to make the line shorter and take up a little less space than a straight line like the one I have pictured.

Looks good!

Can you teach me to use Sketchup like that ...

Thanks. If you had any idea how many hundreds of hours I have spent in SketchUp, you'd understand why it's so easy to do things quickly.

Edited October 7, 2011 by RAM_Designs

[///M5 2,833]

Huh? Why do you think its a T-line?

[RAM_Designs 25]

Huh? Why do you think its a T-line?

You've done this before. It's tiring. The sub is going to be minimally loaded with the 45 feeding directly into the line. I've done this before; it works well.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Just curious, what's the cross-sectional area of the port and its length? And why the sub was loaded into a chamber?

[///M5 2,833]

Huh? Why do you think its a T-line?

You've done this before. It's tiring. The sub is going to be minimally loaded with the 45 feeding directly into the line. I've done this before; it works well.

And you've done this before, it's tiring. That isn't a T-line.

[RAM_Designs 25]

And you've done this before, it's tiring. That isn't a T-line.

So, instead of being the all-knowing forum chode that goes around trying to bring people down without providing any sort of help and/or explanation, why don't you shed some light on the subject and try to actually be an informative and helpful person instead of the pompous asshat that you have been playing for who knows how long?

[edouble101 314]

And you've done this before, it's tiring. That isn't a T-line.

So, instead of being the all-knowing forum chode that goes around trying to bring people down without providing any sort of help and/or explanation, why don't you shed some light on the subject and try to actually be an informative and helpful person instead of the pompous asshat that you have been playing for who knows how long?

Do not let these comments ruin your thread. Arguing against arrogant comments is pointless.

[///M5 2,833]

And you've done this before, it's tiring. That isn't a T-line.

So, instead of being the all-knowing forum chode that goes around trying to bring people down without providing any sort of help and/or explanation, why don't you shed some light on the subject and try to actually be an informative and helpful person instead of the pompous asshat that you have been playing for who knows how long?

So asking you why you think its a T-line is bringing you down? A little self conscious are you?

As for the shedding light, I'd be glad to, but you ignored the segue to that step by refusing to answer the question. Real simple. Why do you think its a T-line?

[///M5 2,833]

And you've done this before, it's tiring. That isn't a T-line.

So, instead of being the all-knowing forum chode that goes around trying to bring people down without providing any sort of help and/or explanation, why don't you shed some light on the subject and try to actually be an informative and helpful person instead of the pompous asshat that you have been playing for who knows how long?

Do not let these comments ruin your thread. Arguing against arrogant comments is pointless.

Lol. I didn't realize that a comment was arrogant in particular when its an open question. You guys really need to stop trying to read into my posts and instead take them at face value. I don't care who types what or for what reason I'll type what is on my mind when I read it. This is a forum or a place for discussion. Someone posts a picture of something and states it is something, it is a rather logical question if it isn't obviously that to a reader to ask why they think it is. The emotional reaction perhaps was inappropriate, but that works for both of us as I just copied his.

[RAM_Designs 25]

So asking you why you think its a T-line is bringing you down? A little self conscious are you?

As for the shedding light, I'd be glad to, but you ignored the segue to that step by refusing to answer the question. Real simple. Why do you think its a T-line?

Ok I'll play along. I wasn't referring to your comment in here as "bringing me down," but I have seen you just come in a thread and say "that's going to sound like crap," and just leave it at that until you get hassled enough about it that you finally explain yourself.

I think it is a t-line because it is a generally non loaded "chamber" feeding into a section of the box that maintains the same cross sectional area and has a given length for a given tuning. I know this is not the usual layout with all of the turns and such, and there are other ways to do the line itself to manipulate phase and response, but I have done a few boxes like this myself, and I feel like they work great. The few that I have done for others seem to garner a good deal of happiness as well. Whatever this style of box is technically called, it works, in my opinion.

[Duran 387]

Folded T-Line's work well, some of the guys are old men who are too stubborn to open their minds to the realm of unconventional enclosures

In reality though, that is, by definition, not a transmission line, it is an inverted folded horn. A T-Line's port area does not change throughout it's length.

[///M5 2,833]

I have seen you just come in a thread and say "that's going to sound like crap," and just leave it at that until you get hassled enough about it that you finally explain yourself.

I put as much energy into my response as the OP's put into their thread. You will notice that when people try that I give them a detailed answer and don't just answer with hardware recommendations but try to help them learn. If they aren't willing to learn I am not willing to teach, but I let them choose. The segue in your thread was my simple open question.

it is a generally non loaded "chamber" feeding into a section of the box that maintains the same cross sectional area and has a given length for a given tuning

Doesn't that description define a standard bass reflex enclosure?

Curious how you plan the further you stray from a standard reflex as well without significant trial and error. Considering most people aren't willing to build more than one enclosure or modify what they have something that isn't easy to model I am always wary of in any recommendation. I realize you weren't recommending this outright to someone, but when they see the thread and read the "positives" you post the subtleties of what that means to them is lost and could have them chasing a holy grail that in application for them is not so good.

Folded T-Line's work well, some of the guys are old men who are too stubborn to open their minds to the realm of unconventional enclosures

Have no issues with t-lines and in fact they are what I listen to the most at home atm. I generally don't see the size/value proposition for in car and generally not even for a sub. There is most definitely a time and a place for them.

[cobra93 47]

Outside of stuffing to reduce higher frequency notes/sound from the system in a transmission line.

Is there a difference between a folded Labyrinth and a transmission line?

[emh9009 199]

Is there a difference between a folded Labyrinth and a transmission line?

Same thing, different name, I believe.

I stand corrected!

[///M5 2,833]

Is there a difference between a folded Labyrinth and a transmission line?

Same thing, different name, I believe.

Folded labyrinth usually refers to the port, not the box. Classically a term applied to things that usually means nothing really though.

[Duran 387]

Just means the port is a labyrinth, as ///M5 said

[95Honda 486]

Problem is, there are a lot of missconceptions about T-lines in the car audio industry.

To be a true transmission line, there cannot be any appreciable volume behind the driver before the line. If there is, the line is no longer coupled directly to the driver and instead to the volume the driver is exciting. The line then acts as a Hemolitz resonator and not a transmission line. There isn't anything wrong with this, it just isn't a T-line anymore.

Additionally, a T-line is completely non-resonant and does not have a tuning frequency. This is because it does not resonate, it instead provides a phase shift on the bottom end just before the line length determains cut-off. This is why it isn't tuned. If your response shows a tuning with similar impedance peaks to a vented box, you know it isn't acting like a T-line, but a Hemolitz Resonator.

What we should do is get the terminology straight as to not confuse people.

The OP's box is a vented alignment, not a T-line. This doesn't mean it won't perform well, if not great. It isn't anyhtiing to get upset over, just the facts.

[edouble101 314]

Great explanation and thanks 95Honda.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Just means the port is a labyrinth, as ///M5 said

I think a name change is in order then.