Anyone familiar with Axiom for HT

[nem 2,019]

I thought Zaph might have released two different crossovers for his speakers. One for on wall and one for not. Pretty nice of him if he did.

If I am reading it correctly, the port forward MTM center has baffle step compensation for near monitor on wall. If I go with that one, I would build three of the centers for the front. The sealed AviaTrix also has baffle step compensation for mounting beside the monitor.

Hopefully they will work out.

Not a big investment if not. Would make a nice gift for a friend. lol

Sweet! I would like to see this build log on HAF.

[Duran 387]

Just an FYI, you can't wall mount non-wall mount designs. Completely different baffle step is required. Yeah, yeah, I know "can't" is a contraction for I can try, but that doesn't mean the results will be pleasing.

Those Axiom's also look like junk to me...but I am only going on looks.

Whatever happened to 'can not'? Lol

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Wasn't Axiom a former Focal brand that they scrapped a few years ago? They were just like JM Labs.

[///M5 2,833]

Jjust an fyi, crossovers are different for different orientations so if you build three centers they have to be oriented as centers. Make NO changes to the baffle layout as the crossover will need to change

[edouble101 314]

Jjust an fyi, crossovers are different for different orientations so if you build three centers they have to be oriented as centers. Make NO changes to the baffle layout as the crossover will need to change

I am pathetically clueless when it comes to crossover design.

I do not understand why a center channel design can not be used as L&R. I could understand this better if there was limited vertical or horizontal dispersion but with cone/dome drivers I do not see that as an issue.

How would a crossover design for a center channel speaker not allow the same design to be used as L&R?

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Jjust an fyi, crossovers are different for different orientations so if you build three centers they have to be oriented as centers. Make NO changes to the baffle layout as the crossover will need to change

Yeah I got that, but from my recollection of his system description, Zaph recommended using the crossover design in the center for left and right if they are to be placed up against the monitor. He does recommend to place the tweeter position in relation to the TV, but I cant remember if he said inside or outside. I believe it was outside of the TV so it wont obstruct.

He does offer 2 designs but recommended using the center design as L&R if placing near the TV. I may need to read this agian as i am going from memory, but that is what I understand it to be.

@ Edub.

You have to compensate for the tweeter depending on how close to an object, the cabinet baffle, how close they are to the mids, and more. It's called baffle step and it's WAY over my head also. lol You are trying to balance the tweeter using the crossover design.

I am learning as I go. Apparently there is A LOT more to building a good crossover that I ever imagined.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

To make this easier I am going to C&P from his web site. If you guys see any reason I should not go this route over the sealed AviaTrix design please share your thoughts. I like both of these honestly, but I am leaning towards the Zaph. The deminsions are the reason I want to build one of these. They fit in the space I have to work with.

Here is the link to the projects based on his new drivers.

ZA5

ZA5.3c MTM Center channel

This is a version of the MTM design done specifically for horizontal center channel usage. It is also workable as a near boundary or near TV design. You will hear many people say that a MTM is just not good for horizontal usage, and for the most part they are right. The problem is that upright center channels will not work with the average home theater layout, unless you are lucky enough to have a front projector with a sound transparent screen. But for most of the HT world, we've got to squeeze the center channel between the TV and the furniture it's mounted in/on.

We can however optimize some of the typical MTM off axis response issues out of it, and give it a tonal balance that favors dialog. That is exactly what we've done here, and it's a completely different crossover rather than just an option based on the standard MTM. The crossover point has been dropped down a bit, though still not as low as the TM. There is very little baffle step compensation in this design, and the overall tonal balance favors a broad smooth rise through the upper midrange. The result of that can be seen in comparing the vertical polar responses between this and the standard MTM version. We've widened the listening window when this system is laid horizontal, and even when the response starts to droop due woofer center to center distance, a mild increase in the upper midrange minimizes the effect. The result is a horizontal MTM with a forward listening window of about 50 degrees from side to side. This is much more usable than the typical commercial center channel, which usually has serious lobing issues even 5 degrees off the horizontal axis. An MTM will never be as suitable as a W-T/M-W 3-way center, but here we've done our best with the format. Complaints of dialog audibility should be minimal.

For those who must use the left and right MTM systems right up against the TV, this design is suitable for that also. With that standard MTM design I said it didn't matter much if the tweeter goes to the inside or outside, but for this system it does. The tweeter needs to mount away from nearby obstructions to avoid issues with reflections in it's operating bandwidth. If placed against the side of a TV, the tweeters should go to the outside. If used as a center placed on a shelf below the TV, in most cases tweeter up will be the best. The idea is to keep the tweeter side as clear as possible from nearby objects.

For your left and right channels, If you have to place your enclosure right up against a wall, this is the design to use. Note that the ports face forward so they are not restricted by hi-fi furniture or the back wall. Most centers will need the ports on the front. But for the left and right, if the rears are at least 6" out from the wall, it's not going to matter either way.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Jjust an fyi, crossovers are different for different orientations so if you build three centers they have to be oriented as centers. Make NO changes to the baffle layout as the crossover will need to change

I am pathetically clueless when it comes to crossover design.

I do not understand why a center channel design can not be used as L&R. I could understand this better if there was limited vertical or horizontal dispersion but with cone/dome drivers I do not see that as an issue.

How would a crossover design for a center channel speaker not allow the same design to be used as L&R?

Your ears will work far better in the home environment. You will notice things in the home, you'll never notice in the car. Passive design is an art in itself. You also have to remember that HT is far different than a stereo recording. The center channel is the attention whore here. Generally most people won't notice things until and A/B comparison, but discerning ears are very keen on simple slope changes. None of the speakers are going to be playing the same as the others, so crossover design becomes the main issue here as well as the baffle. The reason most (DIY) home speakers are so expensive is the crossover design. It usually always far exceeds the price of the drivers, and takes more time to design and construct. Of course you also have many commercial manufacturers who prey on the idiots of the HT crowd as well.

[edouble101 314]

Wow HT is nuts. Much more involved than what I have time for.

Very informative thread.

Good luck Lance.

[///M5 2,833]

If the baffle or orientation of the speaker changes so will the crossover. Ie, if the center is designed to lay down then if you use it on the L/R you have to lay it down. Absolutely no problem with uniform speakers and in fact there are benefits but room placement normally changes that.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

My center channel will lie horizontally while the mains will lie vertically and I am using the same crossover in both of them, BUT, I have shitty hearing.