Driver selection for a 3-way active front stage

[edouble101 314]

I am in the process of selecting drivers for a 3-way active setup in my car. I drive a small four door sedan. My design goal is to achieve a realistic soundstage. I will not be using rear fill. I will be using two 12" subwoofers for the substage. For processing duties I will be using a JBL MS-8. I had tossed the idea of using HLCD's but I realize that that maybe more difficult than what I have the patience for I do not have time to 'glass kick pods or build crazy door pods. So the install of these drivers will be somewhat simple but I realize that I may need to do a little fabrication.

All drivers will be aimed accordingly. But generally this is where the placement will be:

Tweeter - sail panels Vifa NE19VTS-04 3/4" Silk Dome Tweeter

Midrange - upper door Morel MDM 55 2-1/8" Soft Dome Midrange

Midbass - lower door DIY Cable Exodus EX 6.5"

I choose the Vifa NE19VTS-04 3/4" Silk Dome Tweeter based on price, specifications (mainly freq response and power handling) and size.

I choose the Morel MDM 55 2-1/8" Soft Dome Midrange mostly due to size and power handling. I need a small midrange but I want it to be able to handle +50wrms too.

I already have the midbass drivers that I will be using, DIY Cable Exodus EX 6.5".

What do you think of my selection for tweeter and midrange? Will this be a good matching 3-way setup?

[duanebrow 6]

I just read a post over on techtalk. Where that tweeter has higher levels of odd order distortion- he is going to buy a different tweet! Two other things that were stated in that post are that zaph audio found the same thing, and that the aluminum version doesn't have this problem.

Fwiw,

Duane

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Just a thought here but take a look at this 3" full range from Aura. This could make for a a really nice 2 way active setup with your Exodus drivers.

Possible mounting options could be down in the kicks or up in the A-pillars.

[edouble101 314]

I just read a post over on techtalk. Where that tweeter has higher levels of odd order distortion- he is going to buy a different tweet! Two other things that were stated in that post are that zaph audio found the same thing, and that the aluminum version doesn't have this problem.

Fwiw,

Duane

Hmm, interesting note on the tweet Duane, thanks.

I registered with techtalk yesteryday. I need to browse through it and read the topic you mentioned.

[edouble101 314]

Just a thought here but take a look at this 3" full range from Aura. This could make for a a really nice 2 way active setup with your Exodus drivers.

Possible mounting options could be down in the kicks or up in the A-pillars.

This driver is too large for my ideal mounting location. I do not want to 'glass kicks either.

Thanks for your input!

[lithium 358]

what is the vehicle?

could you describe how you plan to install these in more detail? is there a factory location for the mid or will you be cutting a hole in the door or something? same for the tweeter?

[lithium 358]

also it sound like you need this to get pretty loud, do you have room for a bigger midbass in the doors? could you fit a peerless sls 8 for example?

[duanebrow 6]

also it sound like you need this to get pretty loud, do you have room for a bigger midbass in the doors? could you fit a peerless sls 8 for example?

Sounds like he has the 6.5"s installed.

[edouble101 314]

what is the vehicle?

could you describe how you plan to install these in more detail? is there a factory location for the mid or will you be cutting a hole in the door or something? same for the tweeter?

also it sound like you need this to get pretty loud, do you have room for a bigger midbass in the doors? could you fit a peerless sls 8 for example?

I will be doing minor 'glass work to the door to fit the mid. I will also have to 'glass the sail panel for the tweet. I want to use the Exodus EX 6.5" since I already have them but if there is a better midbass I will consider it.

I already 'glassd 1" tweets in the sail panels for my current install. I plan on redoing the sail panels with different tweets and better aiming.

I had built ported pods for my Exodus EX 6.5" but I decided I want to keep the midbass behind the door panel.

I bought new door panels. The midbass will be in the stock location. The midrange will be high in the door near the sail panel. Here is a pic of the stock door.

[///M5 2,833]

Sort of strange to have a "mid" that is so reduced in frequency capability. It can work, but it doesn't really buy you any benefit over a 2 way and increases the tuning effort. I'd personally look for something that plays lower, but in a 2" that isn't so easy.

Where are the mids going and what are your restrictions, curious on the potential for aiming on axis or not as well.

I know you said upper door, but more detail would help.

[edouble101 314]

Sort of strange to have a "mid" that is so reduced in frequency capability. It can work, but it doesn't really buy you any benefit over a 2 way and increases the tuning effort. I'd personally look for something that plays lower, but in a 2" that isn't so easy.

I realize that the MDM 55 has a narrow bandwidth. Unfortunately, from my research, there are not many options that ideally fit my criteria. Fortunately though the Exodus EX has no problems playing to 500-1000hz. I wouldn't use the Exodus any higher though. Ideally I would want to cross the midbass around 250hz.

If I went 2-way then I wouldnt use the Exodus EX 6.5 and I would build kicks. I am not building kick panels.

Where are the mids going and what are your restrictions, curious on the potential for aiming on axis or not as well.

My restrictions for the mids is 75% size. The other 25% is RMS power capability. Regardless I do not want to buy a crap mid. I would like to mount them in my upper door area. I believe that will greatly increase stage width. I do have the option of mounting the mids in the dash corners or on the a-pillar. I think it will be easier to mount them in the upper door area though.

I know you said upper door, but more detail would help.

[///M5 2,833]

Are you just bolting them in the door card or making a pod? What about RMS is in your criteria and why?

What you propose is an awful lot of work with potentially minimal benefit.

[edouble101 314]

Are you just bolting them in the door card or making a pod? What about RMS is in your criteria and why?

I will make a mounting baffle. I do not want to power a tweet with ~75wrms the midbass with ~150wrms and only ~25wrms for midrange. I want the front stage to be moderately loud. SQ is of more importance.

What you propose is an awful lot of work with potentially minimal benefit.

Without making kick panels what do you recommend? I am also looking at Hybrid Audio L3 and L1. Again my goal is a good soundstage (depth, width, height).

[ssh 924]

Are you just bolting them in the door card or making a pod? What about RMS is in your criteria and why?

I will make a mounting baffle. I do not want to power a tweet with ~75wrms the midbass with ~150wrms and only ~25wrms for midrange. I want the front stage to be moderately loud. SQ is of more importance.

What you propose is an awful lot of work with potentially minimal benefit.

Without making kick panels what do you recommend? I am also looking at Hybrid Audio L3 and L1. Again my goal is a good soundstage (depth, width, height).

I'm not sure why your set on power usage, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I've personally heard some of the HAT Legatia series drivers and I really liked how they sounded, but after doing some research, and finding reviews, I found that a lot of people said they were extremely overpriced and could get very similar sound for half the price.

I specifically remember one guy testing the L3 mid, he did a direct drop in, then switched it for a ~$100 driver and said he couldn't tell the difference... Just something to think about, see if you can find some reviews. If your still set on them, I believe there is a guy on smd trying to sell his pair (can't remember L3 or L1)

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I know someone who may be selling a set of these if interested.

[duanebrow 6]

Please don't get caught up in matching up rms ratings. Your tweeter will never see close to its rms rating. You need something like 10x the power to the midbase to equal the spl of the tweet. (I didn't do any math here, this is just to give you the idea.)

Duane

[edouble101 314]

I am kinda stuck on using the Exodus and I have no need for passive x-overs. Thanks though Sir-Lancelot.

I am not "stuck" on HAT stefahinote, just another option.

Well I am quickly seeing that the way I wanted to go about this install isnt the best. I am considering building kick pods Dont want to though. If I do Morel EM 428's would work.

[edouble101 314]

Please don't get caught up in matching up rms ratings. Your tweeter will never see close to its rms rating. You need something like 10x the power to the midbase to equal the spl of the tweet. (I didn't do any math here, this is just to give you the idea.)

Duane

For sure man. I plan on using a JL XD400/4 for the tweets/mids and another XD400/4 bridged for the midbass.

[NRA4ever 0]

I have the Exodus mids in my Ranger. I really like them but I have to bring them through the door panel. I just can't seem to stop the rattles & I would like to be able to pop the speaker grill & show them off. I plan to change to Dayton silk dome tweeters at some time so I'll build my mounting block to fit them too. The Exodus mids really get loud. I'm giving them 125 watts at 8 ohms. My door panels flex with the music & keep getting new rattles. Its cool enough to work on the truck again. I'll post the build.

[ssh 924]

I am kinda stuck on using the Exodus and I have no need for passive x-overs. Thanks though Sir-Lancelot.

I am not "stuck" on HAT stefahinote, just another option.

Well I am quickly seeing that the way I wanted to go about this install isnt the best. I am considering building kick pods Dont want to though. If I do Morel EM 428's would work.

Unless you can space out the exodus and mount it on the sheet metal, I don't see it happening in the doors, so heavy

What ever happened to your other door pods you built, those were sick.

[NRA4ever 0]

I put a 1/2 inch plywood panel inside my door as big as possible with a 1/2 inch baffle on the outside. They still flex the interior door panel. I added closed cell foam behind the panel but it still rattles some. I want to bring the mids out even with the door panel with a 1/2 inch thick speaker grill over them & the tweeter. I have some good grill cloth that matches the black on my seats & door panels.The mount will be teardrop shaped with the small end down. I've put lots of thought into how to build these. We had 40 days of over 100 degrees this summer. I couldn't see building till it cooled off. The extra plywood should stiffen the door. I can make the bottom piece big & glue & screw it in place to make it strong.

[ssh 924]

I put a 1/2 inch plywood panel inside my door as big as possible with a 1/2 inch baffle on the outside. They still flex the interior door panel. I added closed cell foam behind the panel but it still rattles some. I want to bring the mids out even with the door panel with a 1/2 inch thick speaker grill over them & the tweeter. I have some good grill cloth that matches the black on my seats & door panels.The mount will be teardrop shaped with the small end down. I've put lots of thought into how to build these. We had 40 days of over 100 degrees this summer. I couldn't see building till it cooled off. The extra plywood should stiffen the door. I can make the bottom piece big & glue & screw it in place to make it strong.

Panel / baffle flex will reduce midbass output.

Start a new thread about your build instead of talking about it in Edouble's.

[NRA4ever 0]

I plan to change my mid mount base soon. I will post the build from start to finish. We are using the same truck is why I posted in this thread.

[///M5 2,833]

I will make a mounting baffle. I do not want to power a tweet with ~75wrms the midbass with ~150wrms and only ~25wrms for midrange. I want the front stage to be moderately loud. SQ is of more importance.

Not sure I follow at all what power handling has to do with anything. Ignore that spec, it is only confusing you.

The HAT stuff is a joke. WAY spendy for nothing special.

[edouble101 314]

I am kinda stuck on using the Exodus and I have no need for passive x-overs. Thanks though Sir-Lancelot.

I am not "stuck" on HAT stefahinote, just another option.

Well I am quickly seeing that the way I wanted to go about this install isnt the best. I am considering building kick pods Dont want to though. If I do Morel EM 428's would work.

Unless you can space out the exodus and mount it on the sheet metal, I don't see it happening in the doors, so heavy

What ever happened to your other door pods you built, those were sick.

Ehh those pods did come out sweet but they were alot bigger than what I had imagined they would be.

I put a 1/2 inch plywood panel inside my door as big as possible with a 1/2 inch baffle on the outside. They still flex the interior door panel. I added closed cell foam behind the panel but it still rattles some. I want to bring the mids out even with the door panel with a 1/2 inch thick speaker grill over them & the tweeter. I have some good grill cloth that matches the black on my seats & door panels.The mount will be teardrop shaped with the small end down. I've put lots of thought into how to build these. We had 40 days of over 100 degrees this summer. I couldn't see building till it cooled off. The extra plywood should stiffen the door. I can make the bottom piece big & glue & screw it in place to make it strong.

Good to know man.