Pairing the Right Amp w/ Speakers

[burko 6]

How's it going guys, I'm looking into a little upgrade on my door speakers and I really need some help. Currently, I run Orion XTRs off of head unit power (herp derp). Obviously they don't get loud as they are not amplified, but I have a feeling that if amplified, they will sound like complete shit when cranked. I'd like to run something a bit more capable, but I just don't quite understand how it all works. Here's what I'm considering going with:

4 Selenium 6W4Ps

4 Crescendo SuperTweets

First question: Will this be enough speakers to cover all frequencies produced in music? I've got my BTL covering the lower end, but am I missing a section of frequencies that would be lost without another speaker type?

Second question: I'm an absolute noob when it comes to class A/B amps. I have no experience with them, and my research might as well have been written in Chinese, so please, understand my noobness and try to help me out. How would that ^^ setup be wired if I were to get, say, a Sundown 100.4? I understand that it is a four channel amplifier, but how would the wiring be configured? Would I just plug two speakers into each channel and each of them would be seeing 50 watts a piece, or is it much more complicated than that? Also, how do you determine final ohm load to each speaker with an amplifier with that many channels?

I've just now truly grasped the concept of a monoblock amp, and I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I really hope you can understand what I'm trying to ask, I must say that I've back-spaced so many times that I've started to confuse myself. If anybody has any links or wishes to explain this whole concept, I would really appreciate it.

[///M5 2,833]

Buying raw drivers without a crossover is a huge recipe for disaster.

Those two drivers do not mate up well either...not even close. I am sure you went off somewhere that there were some deaf motha's that may have thought they sounded good together, but they'll be awful. HUGE gaps, terrible blend, and not effective in the frequency range where you need them most.

I would also say based on your description above and how you describe confusion that you shouldn't be running active anyways. You should be looking at better comp sets.

[burko 6]

Buying raw drivers without a crossover is a huge recipe for disaster.

Those two drivers do not mate up well either...not even close. I am sure you went off somewhere that there were some deaf motha's that may have thought they sounded good together, but they'll be awful. HUGE gaps, terrible blend, and not effective in the frequency range where you need them most.

I would also say based on your description above and how you describe confusion that you shouldn't be running active anyways. You should be looking at better comp sets.

Could you elaborate as to why, exactly?

Also, who is that girl in your sig? I always see it but I've never thought to ask..

[sefugi 166]

I would say since you are semi-new to the mids/highs portion of installs that using a good comp. set and a 2 channel amp would prove to be much easier and you would enjoy it without the extra hassles that an active setup can throw out.

The girl?? She is the one that will do anything for an SSA member!!!

[Julian 641]

His wife.

Gaps in the frequency reproduction

[burko 6]

I would say since you are semi-new to the mids/highs portion of installs that using a good comp. set and a 2 channel amp would prove to be much easier and you would enjoy it without the extra hassles that an active setup can throw out.

The girl?? She is the one that will do anything for an SSA member!!!

By component set, you mean mids and tweets with a crossover? You guys have to understand, I still don't really even know what running active means...

[sefugi 166]

I would say since you are semi-new to the mids/highs portion of installs that using a good comp. set and a 2 channel amp would prove to be much easier and you would enjoy it without the extra hassles that an active setup can throw out.

The girl?? She is the one that will do anything for an SSA member!!!

By component set, you mean mids and tweets with a crossover? You guys have to understand, I still don't really even know what running active means...

Yes!

To me in simple terms, active is running each speaker from it's own channel of an amplifier. The user/installer adjusts each crossover point for the midbass/midrange and tweets instead of a crossover that comes with a component set doing the work. Hope that helps and I don't get bashed for miss-information.

[///M5 2,833]

Buying raw drivers without a crossover is a huge recipe for disaster.

Those two drivers do not mate up well either...not even close. I am sure you went off somewhere that there were some deaf motha's that may have thought they sounded good together, but they'll be awful. HUGE gaps, terrible blend, and not effective in the frequency range where you need them most.

I would also say based on your description above and how you describe confusion that you shouldn't be running active anyways. You should be looking at better comp sets.

Could you elaborate as to why, exactly?

Also, who is that girl in your sig? I always see it but I've never thought to ask..

Yes the mids can't play high enough and the tweets not low enough and it isn't even close. Amusingly the gap in between is where 90% of all music is so you just chose a system that really can't play music.

By component set, you mean mids and tweets with a crossover? You guys have to understand, I still don't really even know what running active means...

If you don't know what active is you CANNOT use the drivers above, nor can you just pick drivers. You MUST pick a set that includes a tweeter, a mid, and a crossover. Anything else and it is going to sound like complete shit.

[S.DeYoung 968]

I have the bravox 3 way component set. It is an amazing set! Unfortunately I cannot fit it in my car the way I would like. If you are interested in them pm me.

[Notorious97200 339]

Why do you want to run so much speakers ? And and so much super tweeters ?! do you have speakers in the rear doors, or in the rear hatch ? You don't need them at all !

Like said above, get a good component set with its passive filter, and you will be good to go !

Go to some local shops, and try to listen to all the sets you can. Then, come back to the forum to tell us what you think about what you've heared. You will receive other advices and you will be able to make a right choice.,I hope so.

You have a btl and a good amp, don't go cheap on the front speakers : IMO it's the heart of a system. You don't need to lost an arm for them, but don't look only at the cheapest ones, please !

You can turn the bass off and still have a good sound, but you can't turn the fr speakers off to listen to just the bass !!!

Good luck !

[burko 6]

So in simple terms, running passive involves no amplifier?

Appreciate the info everybody. Like I said, I'm currently running Orion XTRs. Unfortunately, they just don't get loud enough. The bass drowns out the music even at mild to moderate levels. The reason for my wanting a powerful setup is because I want to have bass while still maintaining the sound of the music. Could someone maybe answer that question right there ^^ to help better my understanding? If I'm wrong don't bash me... please.

[burko 6]

Nevermind, I think...

[Sencheezy 689]

How's it going guys, I'm looking into a little upgrade on my door speakers and I really need some help. Currently, I run Orion XTRs off of head unit power (herp derp). Obviously they don't get loud as they are not amplified, but I have a feeling that if amplified, they will sound like complete shit when cranked. I'd like to run something a bit more capable, but I just don't quite understand how it all works. Here's what I'm considering going with:

4 Selenium 6W4Ps

4 Crescendo SuperTweets

First question: Will this be enough speakers to cover all frequencies produced in music? I've got my BTL covering the lower end, but am I missing a section of frequencies that would be lost without another speaker type?

Second question: I'm an absolute noob when it comes to class A/B amps. I have no experience with them, and my research might as well have been written in Chinese, so please, understand my noobness and try to help me out. How would that ^^ setup be wired if I were to get, say, a Sundown 100.4? I understand that it is a four channel amplifier, but how would the wiring be configured? Would I just plug two speakers into each channel and each of them would be seeing 50 watts a piece, or is it much more complicated than that? Also, how do you determine final ohm load to each speaker with an amplifier with that many channels?

I've just now truly grasped the concept of a monoblock amp, and I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I really hope you can understand what I'm trying to ask, I must say that I've back-spaced so many times that I've started to confuse myself. If anybody has any links or wishes to explain this whole concept, I would really appreciate it.

I've seen this combo before... Hmmmmm.

Ahh yes, here it is

[burko 6]

How's it going guys, I'm looking into a little upgrade on my door speakers and I really need some help. Currently, I run Orion XTRs off of head unit power (herp derp). Obviously they don't get loud as they are not amplified, but I have a feeling that if amplified, they will sound like complete shit when cranked. I'd like to run something a bit more capable, but I just don't quite understand how it all works. Here's what I'm considering going with:

4 Selenium 6W4Ps

4 Crescendo SuperTweets

First question: Will this be enough speakers to cover all frequencies produced in music? I've got my BTL covering the lower end, but am I missing a section of frequencies that would be lost without another speaker type?

Second question: I'm an absolute noob when it comes to class A/B amps. I have no experience with them, and my research might as well have been written in Chinese, so please, understand my noobness and try to help me out. How would that ^^ setup be wired if I were to get, say, a Sundown 100.4? I understand that it is a four channel amplifier, but how would the wiring be configured? Would I just plug two speakers into each channel and each of them would be seeing 50 watts a piece, or is it much more complicated than that? Also, how do you determine final ohm load to each speaker with an amplifier with that many channels?

I've just now truly grasped the concept of a monoblock amp, and I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I really hope you can understand what I'm trying to ask, I must say that I've back-spaced so many times that I've started to confuse myself. If anybody has any links or wishes to explain this whole concept, I would really appreciate it.

I've seen this combo before... Hmmmmm.

Ahh yes, here it is

OK?

[Ohjay 116]

You can and should amp a passive 2 way component set. All you need to do is hook up and run the speaker wire from the amp's speaker terminals to the crossover, and then wire from the crossover to the separate mid and tweeter. It's very simple and the crossover has markings to let you know where to connect each wire.

[burko 6]

You can and should amp a passive 2 way component set. All you need to do is hook up and run the speaker wire from the amp's speaker terminals to the crossover, and then wire from the crossover to the separate mid and tweeter. It's very simple and the crossover has markings to let you know where to connect each wire.

Thanks man!

[sefugi 166]

Something like this... were it says front/rear is the amp just to make it clear.

[ChevyBoy95 15]

just a thought, the scendo super tweets have a freq response of 3khz - 22khz, 6w4ps freq response is 80hz - 9khz. Where whould this "gap" come from?

Edited August 20, 2011 by ChevyBoy95

[jcarter1885 995]

How's it going guys, I'm looking into a little upgrade on my door speakers and I really need some help. Currently, I run Orion XTRs off of head unit power (herp derp). Obviously they don't get loud as they are not amplified, but I have a feeling that if amplified, they will sound like complete shit when cranked. I'd like to run something a bit more capable, but I just don't quite understand how it all works. Here's what I'm considering going with:

4 Selenium 6W4Ps

4 Crescendo SuperTweets

First question: Will this be enough speakers to cover all frequencies produced in music? I've got my BTL covering the lower end, but am I missing a section of frequencies that would be lost without another speaker type?

Second question: I'm an absolute noob when it comes to class A/B amps. I have no experience with them, and my research might as well have been written in Chinese, so please, understand my noobness and try to help me out. How would that ^^ setup be wired if I were to get, say, a Sundown 100.4? I understand that it is a four channel amplifier, but how would the wiring be configured? Would I just plug two speakers into each channel and each of them would be seeing 50 watts a piece, or is it much more complicated than that? Also, how do you determine final ohm load to each speaker with an amplifier with that many channels?

I've just now truly grasped the concept of a monoblock amp, and I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I really hope you can understand what I'm trying to ask, I must say that I've back-spaced so many times that I've started to confuse myself. If anybody has any links or wishes to explain this whole concept, I would really appreciate it.

First I would purchase an amp and put those XTR speakers on the amp first before going out and buying new speakers. If your current speakers amplified still dont meet your goals or desired output levels then switch to something else.

If you do end up switching speakers to what you have listed above I would only buy 2 supertweeters if your going with 4 Selenium drivers (hopefully the Sundown Neo-Pro 6.5"s will be out by then). If you choose to get the Sundown 100.4D you can wire your speakers like so:

Channel 1 - 1 Supertweeter @ 8 ohm load

Channel 2 - 1 Supertweeter @ 8 ohm load

Channel 3 - 2 Seleniums @ 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm speakers wired together = 4 ohm load)

Channel 4 - 2 Seleniums @ 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm speakers wired together = 4 ohm load)

Yes they will see around 50 watts a piece give or take some wattage, this will be fine considering they are more efficient than your typical car audio speakers (coaxials, components).

There are a lot of people on this site who dont like pro audio drivers or dont care for them in there install so they will talk down on them. There are a few of us on here who use them and use them in actual installs, I can honestly say it is not for everyone. I would try to listen to someone who has a pro audio setup before taking the leap, but if you do the speakers your looking at wont brake your pockets if you end up not liking them. Just my .02, hope that helps.

[burko 6]

Something like this... were it says front/rear is the amp just to make it clear.

Ohhhhh, so one channel signal goes into the xover, and it splits it into the mid/high? Got it..

just a thought, the scendo super tweets have a freq response of 3khz - 22khz, 6w4ps freq response is 80hz - 9khz. Where whould this "gap" come from?

I was wondering the same thing... ??

How's it going guys, I'm looking into a little upgrade on my door speakers and I really need some help. Currently, I run Orion XTRs off of head unit power (herp derp). Obviously they don't get loud as they are not amplified, but I have a feeling that if amplified, they will sound like complete shit when cranked. I'd like to run something a bit more capable, but I just don't quite understand how it all works. Here's what I'm considering going with:

4 Selenium 6W4Ps

4 Crescendo SuperTweets

First question: Will this be enough speakers to cover all frequencies produced in music? I've got my BTL covering the lower end, but am I missing a section of frequencies that would be lost without another speaker type?

Second question: I'm an absolute noob when it comes to class A/B amps. I have no experience with them, and my research might as well have been written in Chinese, so please, understand my noobness and try to help me out. How would that ^^ setup be wired if I were to get, say, a Sundown 100.4? I understand that it is a four channel amplifier, but how would the wiring be configured? Would I just plug two speakers into each channel and each of them would be seeing 50 watts a piece, or is it much more complicated than that? Also, how do you determine final ohm load to each speaker with an amplifier with that many channels?

I've just now truly grasped the concept of a monoblock amp, and I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I really hope you can understand what I'm trying to ask, I must say that I've back-spaced so many times that I've started to confuse myself. If anybody has any links or wishes to explain this whole concept, I would really appreciate it.

First I would purchase an amp and put those XTR speakers on the amp first before going out and buying new speakers. If your current speakers amplified still dont meet your goals or desired output levels then switch to something else.

If you do end up switching speakers to what you have listed above I would only buy 2 supertweeters if your going with 4 Selenium drivers (hopefully the Sundown Neo-Pro 6.5"s will be out by then). If you choose to get the Sundown 100.4D you can wire your speakers like so:

Channel 1 - 1 Supertweeter @ 8 ohm load

Channel 2 - 1 Supertweeter @ 8 ohm load

Channel 3 - 2 Seleniums @ 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm speakers wired together = 4 ohm load)

Channel 4 - 2 Seleniums @ 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm speakers wired together = 4 ohm load)

Yes they will see around 50 watts a piece give or take some wattage, this will be fine considering they are more efficient than your typical car audio speakers (coaxials, components).

There are a lot of people on this site who dont like pro audio drivers or dont care for them in there install so they will talk down on them. There are a few of us on here who use them and use them in actual installs, I can honestly say it is not for everyone. I would try to listen to someone who has a pro audio setup before taking the leap, but if you do the speakers your looking at wont brake your pockets if you end up not liking them. Just my .02, hope that helps.

Would that be considered an active setup, as in no crossovers?

[jcarter1885 995]

Yes that would be considered an active setup, active setups have crossovers but they are usually controlled by either: a headunit, external processor or an amplifier. Active and passive usually both consist of mid and tweeter, passive has a crossover between the amp and speakers (both speakers are wired to crossover, then crossover is wired to amp). Active usually consist of mids hooked up to a pair of channels and tweeters to another pair of channels on the amp. Active just means you will have to adjust your crossover points on your own without the help of a passive crossover unit that comes with component speakers.

[///M5 2,833]

just a thought, the scendo super tweets have a freq response of 3khz - 22khz, 6w4ps freq response is 80hz - 9khz. Where whould this "gap" come from?

LOL. Specs are crap. No way, no how do those specs portray reality.

[vladd 26]

Fs on those tweets is 3720hz no way in hell could you play even close to Fs, let alone below it.

[burko 6]

Fs on those tweets is 3720hz no way in hell could you play even close to Fs, let alone below it.

Why would you need to if the seleniums are capable of going up to 9kHz?

[burko 6]

Yes that would be considered an active setup, active setups have crossovers but they are usually controlled by either: a headunit, external processor or an amplifier. Active and passive usually both consist of mid and tweeter, passive has a crossover between the amp and speakers (both speakers are wired to crossover, then crossover is wired to amp). Active usually consist of mids hooked up to a pair of channels and tweeters to another pair of channels on the amp. Active just means you will have to adjust your crossover points on your own without the help of a passive crossover unit that comes with component speakers.

Thank you sir!! Exactly what I wanted to know!