Toroid Windings

[flakko 1]

i still dont understand how they work and what the diff is... you got these kind with a bunch of little wires and a crapload of windings

and youve got these:

with a little bit of windings and thicker wire.

is one better than the other? i dont understand.

[Eldorado 0]

I would like to know as well.

Also, more smaller caps or less bigger caps, whats better ?

[UndercoverPunk 0]

... Why not ask the engineer at US Amps? Seems like it would be pretty reliable information.

I have an idea, but I absolutely suck at putting things into words... so I'll shut mah mouth..

Edited January 3, 2006 by UndercoverPunk

[djjdnap 78]

i'm gonna say.

The diffrent windings of the two give them diffrent inductances.

The more turns the more inductance

Inductance is a measure of the amount of magnetic flux produced for a given electric current.

Magnetic flux, is a measure of quantity of magnetism, taking account of the strength and the extent of a magnetic field.

confusing yes? LMAO

basiclly diffrent applications have diffrent designs, which in turn use diffrent materials. SO to answer which on is better, thats like comparing apples to oranges.

[Eldorado 0]

speak engwish please

[UndercoverPunk 0]

i'm gonna say.

The diffrent windings of the two give them diffrent inductances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't that true for any transformer?

[flakko 1]

... Why not ask the engineer at US Amps?  Seems like it would be pretty reliable information.

I have an idea, but I absolutely suck at putting things into words... so I'll shut mah mouth..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol he confuses me more than anyone else ive talked to haha.

also its CES time

[UndercoverPunk 0]

Very true.... he's probably a little stressed... LOL

[UndercoverPunk 0]

Bump for Dave Edwards.... he's gotta know. How's about Brad, Nick, Kent, Ryan, Steve or any of them other old guys....

I really just don't want to open my mouth and possibly look like a complete jakcalope cause I don't know "for sure".

[johnecon2001 82]

Different windings for different classes. I'll bet you the one with more windings is a class a/b and the one with less is a D or a T.

Class a/b is less efficient and requires more power (input) to creat more power (ouput). if you want to increase efficiency in that stage you need a different power torroid than you would use in a D class.

I'm not actually sure of the workings of why more windings are more efficient.. but thats the basic reason why they differ iirc.

[UndercoverPunk 0]

I don't think that's right....

20.1 = D and it has a fudgeton of windings...

[flakko 1]

yea and watabout the layers of windings... like that 20.1 has 3 layers, while the 3000DE has 2

[Impious 1,476]

Different windings for different classes. I'll bet you the one with more windings is a class a/b and the one with less is a D or a T.

Class a/b is less efficient and requires more power (input) to creat more power (ouput). if you want to increase efficiency in that stage you need a different power torroid than you would use in a D class.

I'm not actually sure of the workings of why more windings are more efficient.. but thats the basic reason why they differ iirc.

I'm no expert here....but this is my take on it;

It has a lot to do with how the amp was designed to make it's power; high voltage (into a high impedance) or high current (into a low impedance)

Take two amps; one makes 1000w @ 1ohm, the other makes 1000w @ 4ohm.

sqrt(1000*1) = 31.6V

1000/22.3 = 31.6A

So, the 1000w amp at 1ohm needs to make 31.6V, and 31.6A.

sqrt(1000*4) = 63.2V

1000/63.2 = 15.8A

The 1000w @ 4ohm amp needs 63.2V, but only 15.8A of current.

Since toroids are (IIRC) used to ramp up the voltage, you could see that even though they make the same power, and could even be the same class, they would use two totally different toroid sizes since amp B needs twice as much voltage.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I know absolutely nothing other than I plug everything in and they make noise.

[UndercoverPunk 0]

I know absolutely nothing other than I plug everything in and they make noise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing like good old fashioned honesty.

[dave_Edwards 1]

Different windings for different classes. I'll bet you the one with more windings is a class a/b and the one with less is a D or a T.

Class a/b is less efficient and requires more power (input) to creat more power (ouput). if you want to increase efficiency in that stage you need a different power torroid than you would use in a D class.

I'm not actually sure of the workings of why more windings are more efficient.. but thats the basic reason why they differ iirc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm no expert here....but this is my take on it;

It has a lot to do with how the amp was designed to make it's power; high voltage (into a high impedance) or high current (into a low impedance)

Take two amps; one makes 1000w @ 1ohm, the other makes 1000w @ 4ohm.

sqrt(1000*1) = 31.6V

1000/22.3 = 31.6A

So, the 1000w amp at 1ohm needs to make 31.6V, and 31.6A.

sqrt(1000*4) = 63.2V

1000/63.2 = 15.8A

The 1000w @ 4ohm amp needs 63.2V, but only 15.8A of current.

Since toroids are (IIRC) used to ramp up the voltage, you could see that even though they make the same power, and could even be the same class, they would use two totally different toroid sizes since amp B needs twice as much voltage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very well said,couldn't have said it any better

[helotax1 0]

To add to what squeak said, the multiple runs of wire within each winding are strictly for current handling. And the multiple output taps are for different voltages.

Its been a long time since I worked with making a DC/DC power supply, but the basic idea is that you use a series of transistors (or MOSFETs) to pulse the DC input voltage. The pulsed DC is run into an inductor and energy is stored in the mag field of the inductor. In between pulses the inductor basically reverses the voltage giving AC. From there the AC goes into the transformer for the voltage stepup and then into a pair of rectifiers. The resulting output is DC both + and - for whatever the desired rail voltage is.

The caps in the input serve two purposes. They stiffen the DC input of the amp and they filter out any ripple in the DC input from the car's electrical system.

[CBFryman 2]

Different windings for different classes. I'll bet you the one with more windings is a class a/b and the one with less is a D or a T.

Class a/b is less efficient and requires more power (input) to creat more power (ouput). if you want to increase efficiency in that stage you need a different power torroid than you would use in a D class.

I'm not actually sure of the workings of why more windings are more efficient.. but thats the basic reason why they differ iirc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm no expert here....but this is my take on it;

It has a lot to do with how the amp was designed to make it's power; high voltage (into a high impedance) or high current (into a low impedance)

Take two amps; one makes 1000w @ 1ohm, the other makes 1000w @ 4ohm.

sqrt(1000*1) = 31.6V

1000/22.3 = 31.6A

So, the 1000w amp at 1ohm needs to make 31.6V, and 31.6A.

sqrt(1000*4) = 63.2V

1000/63.2 = 15.8A

The 1000w @ 4ohm amp needs 63.2V, but only 15.8A of current.

Since toroids are (IIRC) used to ramp up the voltage, you could see that even though they make the same power, and could even be the same class, they would use two totally different toroid sizes since amp B needs twice as much voltage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This explanation x eleventeen

Though i dont know much at all about amp design or circutry, it makes scence.

[mikechec9 0]

http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-inoue/e_coil.htm