IA 187, hows the midbass?

[Moofs 1]

Incriminator Audio 187

I had an Audioque SDC2.5 15 and was not impressed with it at all.

Have you heard the 187? Do you think it can cover a little of the midbass like I want?

and also, does anyone have any idea of port/box size etc?

I have had the LI and DR series from IA and they are very transient. I am a metal head so they fit my sq perfectly.

Follow the IA box specs for the best results.

Good to know, I found a kicker ZX400.1 that would work good with the 187 so I'm gonna look more into that route.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

I think you will be pleased with the IA 187.

[///M5 2,833]

Actually it is a pretty logical compromise. Using a sub to play the lower midbass is a lot more cost efficient than building a monster front stage. The disadvantage though is that you will give up staging as it will pull sound backgrounds, but you reference rears so that is already a problem. Don't think you are into an SQ setup by your posts, but no matter the alignment I'd encourage you to not focus on anything too peaky.

So for my needs would you suggest the SDC or 187?

Reason I dont want the Dcon is I heard the "lower mid bass" isnt that great on it.

My setup is 5.25 components and a sub. The rears will stay stock and probably be turned down. So with those speakers, im expecting the midbass to be pretty weak, if any at all. Hence the higher filter setting. I just want something that sounds good, or better than the avg. stock system. I'm not looking for an insane SQ system or an SPL system. I just want to upgrade my car's system and have something that will work well with both rock and rap. Keep in mind I'm limited on cost, my budget for the whole system is 600 and I only have 300 to spend on a sub/amp.

The SDC doesn't make any sense for your application IMO, exactly the opposite of what you want. As for the 187 or Dcon, curious why/where you heard that the Dcon had an issue with lower mid-bass and do remember that EVERYTHING is install and enclosure dependent.

[Moofs 1]

Actually it is a pretty logical compromise. Using a sub to play the lower midbass is a lot more cost efficient than building a monster front stage. The disadvantage though is that you will give up staging as it will pull sound backgrounds, but you reference rears so that is already a problem. Don't think you are into an SQ setup by your posts, but no matter the alignment I'd encourage you to not focus on anything too peaky.

So for my needs would you suggest the SDC or 187?

Reason I dont want the Dcon is I heard the "lower mid bass" isnt that great on it.

My setup is 5.25 components and a sub. The rears will stay stock and probably be turned down. So with those speakers, im expecting the midbass to be pretty weak, if any at all. Hence the higher filter setting. I just want something that sounds good, or better than the avg. stock system. I'm not looking for an insane SQ system or an SPL system. I just want to upgrade my car's system and have something that will work well with both rock and rap. Keep in mind I'm limited on cost, my budget for the whole system is 600 and I only have 300 to spend on a sub/amp.

The SDC doesn't make any sense for your application IMO, exactly the opposite of what you want. As for the 187 or Dcon, curious why/where you heard that the Dcon had an issue with lower mid-bass and do remember that EVERYTHING is install and enclosure dependent.

Would u be able to go into more detail about why you dont think the AQ is good for me?

To be honest, the main reason I'm looking at the AQ is to fill in that mid bass gap. I just dont want a system that will sound like something is "missing." I was told the SDC can be crossed over higher than most subs, especially since likes those higher tuned boxes. The sub needs to be able to play kick drums, bass guitar, etc. Something that sounds good playing rock, not just rap songs.

Can any of you tell me how high I can crossover the 187 in a ported box. Can I set it at like 120hz? or is that to high?

btw: regarding the Dcon playing midbass. That is just something I heard from a couple people. Not that its bad, but it was just what ever. So it's only something I heard by word of mouth. Idk the exact reason, guessing box.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Moofs

[Moofs 1]

Anyone^ with info on how high I can cross over the 187.

[Impious 1,476]

The enclosure tuning has nothing to do with how high the driver can play, those are two totally unrelated issues. Just because the SDC may "like" higher tuned enclosures, it does not inherently mean it can likewise play higher in frequency.

What you need to find out is the inductance of the voice coil.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Pretty much ANY subwoofer on the market can provide what you are looking for. Then again, pretty much ANY subwoofer on the market will work for 99% of all buyers anyways.

[Moofs 1]

The enclosure tuning has nothing to do with how high the driver can play, those are two totally unrelated issues. Just because the SDC may "like" higher tuned enclosures, it does not inherently mean it can likewise play higher in frequency.

What you need to find out is the inductance of the voice coil.

Well from what I was told from ppl who have the SDC is that the SDC can be crossed over higher. A lot higher than 80hz (which is apparently high for the 187) and can cover some of the mid bass that will be missing from the 5.25 speakers I'll have.

I mean I'm basically looking into the SDC bc im told it can play higher (into midbass territory) than the average subwoofer, where most will roll off or sound to quiet.

I'm getting it to cover up the gap in sound I wont have/will be lacking. Thats the main reason.

Can the 187 do this? B/c from what I hear it can, but not as well as the SDC. Keep in mind all my sound will be coming from 5.25 components.

[///M5 2,833]

The enclosure tuning has nothing to do with how high the driver can play, those are two totally unrelated issues. Just because the SDC may "like" higher tuned enclosures, it does not inherently mean it can likewise play higher in frequency.

What you need to find out is the inductance of the voice coil.

Well from what I was told from ppl who have the SDC is that the SDC can be crossed over higher. A lot higher than 80hz (which is apparently high for the 187) and can cover some of the mid bass that will be missing from the 5.25 speakers I'll have.

I mean I'm basically looking into the SDC bc im told it can play higher (into midbass territory) than the average subwoofer, where most will roll off or sound to quiet.

I'm getting it to cover up the gap in sound I wont have/will be lacking. Thats the main reason.

Can the 187 do this? B/c from what I hear it can, but not as well as the SDC. Keep in mind all my sound will be coming from 5.25 components.

Part of the problem here is that generally people who buy SDC's don't know what they are doing in the first place and all of them seem to blindly recommend what they have. "A lot" higher crossover point can be had on many subs. Hell the Aura NS12 plays really nice nearly to 1kHz in the right enclosure although it'll beam like crazy that high. You will also see me recommend a ton of 8" subs to be used as midbasses and not subs since IMO they are better geared for that in the first place.

Its already been said here, but the real problem with the people you are getting advice from is that they don't know the difference between a high tuning and high frequency roll off.

Again, you should take a step back and describe your need a little better...and that shouldn't come from things you've read but what your ears tell you. Should be rather easy to figure out as well. Listen to your mids and determine where the roll-off is that you want to reinforce. Once you know that choosing a driver and alignment will be easier.

[Notorious97200 339]

OP, you'd better follow those advices. You're lucky to have some of the geat mods taking care of you !!! Don't waste that.

[Moofs 1]

Thanks guys, I def appreciate the advice. I'll def be the first to admit I dont know much of anything about car audio.

The person who originally recommended me the SDC is someone I trust in terms of advice. He has build a ton of enclosures and done a lot of builds. He is one of the main builders for a local car audio SPL team. He personally has used AQ in his car and others along with owning and building for other subs. He was telling me how for example an FI Q he owned, along with other subs, they tend to roll off to quickly at higher frequencies. Which apparently the AQ doesnt. Even searching around I've seen people say that the AQ is better suited for rock.

My concern is the 187 will fade out up top or not do as well as the AQ. That basically my only concern. I dont want to miss out on "frequency coverage" in the midbass area by going with the 187.

Can anyone tell me at what frequency I should cross the 187 over at?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Whatever works best for you. Nobody can give you a definite set point. You'll have to use your ears

[Moofs 1]

Whatever works best for you. Nobody can give you a definite set point. You'll have to use your ears

kk, I was guessing maybe around 100-120. So to verify, the 187 will be able to play those frequencies. It wont just fade out or sound weak above 70/80hz? it just seem everyone has recommended to cross it at 80hz so I don't want frequencies above that to be missing.

(I feel I'm wording my questions weird)

Edited August 5, 2011 by Moofs

[cobra93 47]

It's going to come down to what you like, after all you are paying for it and listening to it.

I haven't heard either, sorry no help here.

If your buddy has the experience you say he does and possibly has access to some of the subs you have you eyes on, would it be possible for him to let you here what he has available to him?

It's just a thought that could give you first hand experience that may help you to make a choice.

BTW. You did get the attention of some of the best members to help you with this choice, use it to your advantage!

[Moofs 1]

Thanks! I def appreciate everyones help. He is letting me listen to the SDC's in his car. But he doesnt have access to any of the others. So I can't hear the 187. I cant even find one in my area.

So can anyone tell me, It's been suggested by two members to cross the sub over at 80hz. Can the 187 play higher than that or will it just fade out or sound weak/bad.

All I know is last time I talked to the guy about the 187 he said we can cross the SDC over way higher than 80hz.

[Moofs 1]

So since ppl have said to cross it at 80hz, if I cross it at like 120hz, will it actually sound good and I'll get some midbass, or will it be weak/faint?

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Actually it is a pretty logical compromise. Using a sub to play the lower midbass is a lot more cost efficient than building a monster front stage. The disadvantage though is that you will give up staging as it will pull sound backgrounds, but you reference rears so that is already a problem. Don't think you are into an SQ setup by your posts, but no matter the alignment I'd encourage you to not focus on anything too peaky.

So for my needs would you suggest the SDC or 187?

Reason I dont want the Dcon is I heard the "lower mid bass" isnt that great on it.

My setup is 5.25 components and a sub. The rears will stay stock and probably be turned down. So with those speakers, im expecting the midbass to be pretty weak, if any at all. Hence the higher filter setting. I just want something that sounds good, or better than the avg. stock system. I'm not looking for an insane SQ system or an SPL system. I just want to upgrade my car's system and have something that will work well with both rock and rap. Keep in mind I'm limited on cost, my budget for the whole system is 600 and I only have 300 to spend on a sub/amp.

I would love to see who said that. The Dcon is the only one of the three that is made here, and has STELLAR reviews and feedback in countless different installs, to me the choice is really obvious regardless of my bias.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

The enclosure tuning has nothing to do with how high the driver can play, those are two totally unrelated issues. Just because the SDC may "like" higher tuned enclosures, it does not inherently mean it can likewise play higher in frequency.

What you need to find out is the inductance of the voice coil.

Not being critical of AQ, but they are playing to their demographic. Meaning, the younger crowd that cares less about a smoother or flatter response and tend to not even worry about true low end response, as all they care about is louder for cheaper not caring at all about where the driver is made. So the higher suggested tuning is naturally going to peak higher and going to sound louder to the ear to the younger crowd as louder is all that matters in their show off to the friends contest.

[///M5 2,833]

Thanks! I def appreciate everyones help. He is letting me listen to the SDC's in his car. But he doesnt have access to any of the others. So I can't hear the 187. I cant even find one in my area.

So can anyone tell me, It's been suggested by two members to cross the sub over at 80hz. Can the 187 play higher than that or will it just fade out or sound weak/bad.

All I know is last time I talked to the guy about the 187 he said we can cross the SDC over way higher than 80hz.

If you cross anything over at 80Hz you will not have midbass. As for what the driver can do, the last one I'd pick is the AQ crap. Their design offering is meant to appeal to someone who likes output only and has no regard for quality. By definition this will be a peaky driver that doesn't do well either low OR high, but has a tuning that makes a boom at very small range of notes.

I wouldn't even bother listening to them. A subset of one with nothing to compare will teach you nothing. IMO the SDC is a driver that I flat out don't understand why anyone would buy. The response is a complete joke, the companies marketing is complete BS, and for the same dollars there are better solutions no matter what your goals. In your case in particular I think it is a bad choice.

Of course, that being said. The install will make or break it, but why handicap yourself with an AQ to begin with?

[Moofs 1]

thanks guy!

M5, the main two reasons I'm l

[Moofs 1]

thanks guy!

M5, the main two reasons I'm looking into the AQ is bc I'm under the impression that it can handle the lower mid bass frequencies. or at least play them louder and not roll off.

for the 187, will I be able to hear tones above 80hz or will they just roll/fade off? I plan to tune the box to around 35hz and cross it at like 120hz.

second reason is budget. I can spend 150 on a sub. max. the dcon is the same $ as the AQ and the 187 is like 130 shipped. unless I can find a coupon code for the dcon I'm not considering it. Plus I hear it's basically sounds the same as the 187.

[altoncustomtech 773]

No matter what sub you choose, if there was a dip in response between the sub and components you can always tweak it back in with the EQ in your HU. Even the cheap Pioneers have the ability to pick the frequency the "Bass" adjustment on the EQ centers at and the "Q" or how wide a set of frequencies it affects. The choice seems simple to me, which would be the one that sounds the best doing what it was intended to do, reproduce sub-bass frequencies. Dips or peaks in response can be dealt with easily enough. Have you even listened to or installed the components yet? Even though they're 5.25's they may just surprise you. Do you have any sound deadening installed or the components installed in a good solid baffle? Installation makes or breaks any setup and you should really concentrate on the installation of the components first, then decide and execute your sub purchase and installation accordingly. IMO a DCON will cover what you need wonderfully and if you're dead set against one the 187 will also do nicely. I agree with the others that the AQ isn't the best choice.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

thanks guy!

M5, the main two reasons I'm looking into the AQ is bc I'm under the impression that it can handle the lower mid bass frequencies. or at least play them louder and not roll off.

for the 187, will I be able to hear tones above 80hz or will they just roll/fade off? I plan to tune the box to around 35hz and cross it at like 120hz.

second reason is budget. I can spend 150 on a sub. max. the dcon is the same $ as the AQ and the 187 is like 130 shipped. unless I can find a coupon code for the dcon I'm not considering it. Plus I hear it's basically sounds the same as the 187.

I would like to know where you are "hearing" all these sweeping opinions from, because you keep saying you hear this and hear that, and I am active on countless forums and have seen nothing of the sort. I don't know of more then maybe 3 or 4 people who have actually heard both the 187 and the Dcon, and I highly doubt more then a couple have heard them in the same install under the same conditions. What I am getting at is you are basing your decision over a few dollars and hersay which is the wrong way to go about it.

Yes, my bias is towards the Dcon, but for objective reasons too.

[///M5 2,833]

Have to agree, what you've "heard" is dubious and inaccurate. Run from that AQ, you don't want it.

[Moofs 1]

so from anyone who has heard it. how is the 187 above 80hz. can it handle being crossed over that high or does it sound kinda weak with those higher frequencies.