Poor Peal N SEAL!!!!

[TechSys 3]

O.k. I've had my Peal-N-Seal, well Protect-O-Wrap (same company as AudioWrap, but same a PNS) in my van for over 3 years. It has just now started to come down. All I did when applying it was clean the metal with alcohol, then wiped it down again with windex.

Did it work? 1 layer cut the rippling of my roof to about half of what it was beforehand.

But, I would not recommend it for overhead or sides of a vehicle. If not applied right it will come off within a week after applying it. If anybody is going to use it, use it on the floors only.

It also will not work for everybody. For some reason some vehicles it will stick to and may never come down, others it'll come down real quick.

You can use a better glue, in a spray, that will make it adhere better. I can't remember what it's called right off the bat now.

A lot of people have used it and have had success with it. Usually those that haven't had success with it have installed it wrong. Sometimes, like now, there'll be a person that installed it the right way, and had no luck with it. Which I am sorry to hear about.

And btw, there ain't no damn smell from the stuff. Well, in my case there hasn't been. Maybe that can be different for everybody also.

And yea. I'll be using it again. Why? Well, since I redo my system aprox every 4 years, I can redo the deadener also, if needed. 4 layers of PNS or Protect-o-wrap for my whole van would cost about 1/4, maybe 1/2, the price of anything else. 4 layers will give me the same as 2 layers of anything else. I can spend the left over money on other things my needs (a v8 swap)

I forgot to mention. When I first bought Protect-O-Wrap I had a 1991 Chevy Beretta GT. I put 1 square under the car, right where the trunk is. Now this was back in 2002/3. That same piece is still under the car and you can not remove it. Just figured I would mention that. Oh, and that area was not cleaned before I put the stuff in place.

Edited May 2, 2011 by TechSys

[mariobjones 5]

Not only does it fall off, but even when applied "right" it doesn't deaden for crap either.

Why is everyone thinking i didnt apply it right?? I did, it just doesnt work!!

Because people want to believe that the way they installed theirs is going to prevent the same outcome. Some advocate heat - which only accelerates the deterioration of the rubber compounds added to the asphalt to increase its heat tolerance. Others, aggressive solvents or using rollers, neither of which make any difference. "Crap shoot" is a pretty good description. Asphalt will either melt or the VOC's will outgas leaving inert crud behind.

As has been pointed out already, asphalt isn't a vibration damper. If it stopped rattles it did so by mobilizing the moving parts - duct tape would work as well. If it increased SPL, it did so by sealing air leaks. Asphalt is an inherently unstable material and a poor choice for this application. Installation has very little to do with anything. There have been several asphalt fans who have used incredibly meticulous and elaborate procedures and still ended up with failures.

The key is analyzing the problem you are trying to solve and devising a solution that addresses it directly. If the problem is the trunk lid inner skin rattling against the outer skin, a few dabs of RTV silicone will solve the problem. If it's a rattling license plate, 25 cents worth of closed cell foam glued to the back of the plate will be more effective than 10 layers of vibration damper inside the trunk or trunk lid. Whatever the problem, asphalt isn't the solution - unless the problem is roofing related

NICE!!

[mariobjones 5]

O.k. I've had my Peal-N-Seal, well Protect-O-Wrap (same company as AudioWrap, but same a PNS) in my van for over 3 years. It has just now started to come down. All I did when applying it was clean the metal with alcohol, then wiped it down again with windex.

Did it work? 1 layer cut the rippling of my roof to about half of what it was beforehand.

But, I would not recommend it for overhead or sides of a vehicle. If not applied right it will come off within a week after applying it. If anybody is going to use it, use it on the floors only.

It also will not work for everybody. For some reason some vehicles it will stick to and may never come down, others it'll come down real quick.

You can use a better glue, in a spray, that will make it adhere better. I can't remember what it's called right off the bat now.

A lot of people have used it and have had success with it. Usually those that haven't had success with it have installed it wrong. Sometimes, like now, there'll be a person that installed it the right way, and had no luck with it. Which I am sorry to hear about.

And btw, there ain't no damn smell from the stuff. Well, in my case there hasn't been. Maybe that can be different for everybody also.

And yea. I'll be using it again. Why? Well, since I redo my system aprox every 4 years, I can redo the deadener also, if needed. 4 layers of PNS or Protect-o-wrap for my whole van would cost about 1/4, maybe 1/2, the price of anything else. 4 layers will give me the same as 2 layers of anything else. I can spend the left over money on other things my needs (a v8 swap)

Exactly what I stated. And x2 on the smelll rumor

[Duran 387]

O.k. I've had my Peal-N-Seal, well Protect-O-Wrap (same company as AudioWrap, but same a PNS) in my van for over 3 years. It has just now started to come down. All I did when applying it was clean the metal with alcohol, then wiped it down again with windex.

Did it work? 1 layer cut the rippling of my roof to about half of what it was beforehand.

But, I would not recommend it for overhead or sides of a vehicle. If not applied right it will come off within a week after applying it. If anybody is going to use it, use it on the floors only.

It also will not work for everybody. For some reason some vehicles it will stick to and may never come down, others it'll come down real quick.

You can use a better glue, in a spray, that will make it adhere better. I can't remember what it's called right off the bat now.

A lot of people have used it and have had success with it. Usually those that haven't had success with it have installed it wrong. Sometimes, like now, there'll be a person that installed it the right way, and had no luck with it. Which I am sorry to hear about.

And btw, there ain't no damn smell from the stuff. Well, in my case there hasn't been. Maybe that can be different for everybody also.

And yea. I'll be using it again. Why? Well, since I redo my system aprox every 4 years, I can redo the deadener also, if needed. 4 layers of PNS or Protect-o-wrap for my whole van would cost about 1/4, maybe 1/2, the price of anything else. 4 layers will give me the same as 2 layers of anything else. I can spend the left over money on other things my needs (a v8 swap)

Exactly what I stated. And x2 on the smelll rumor

Rumor? It's asphalt, can you also not smell it when a road is being paved?

[///M5 2,833]

Not only does it fall off, but even when applied "right" it doesn't deaden for crap either.

Why is everyone thinking i didnt apply it right?? I did, it just doesnt work!!

While Don's clarification is obviously spot on, you missed my point. Applied right or wrong it doesn't work. You went through great efforts to apply it right (ie I wasn't implying you did it wrong) and it still fails as a deadener.

[///M5 2,833]

And yea. I'll be using it again. Why? Well, since I redo my system aprox every 4 years, I can redo the deadener also, if needed. 4 layers of PNS or Protect-o-wrap for my whole van would cost about 1/4, maybe 1/2, the price of anything else. 4 layers will give me the same as 2 layers of anything else. I can spend the left over money on other things my needs (a v8 swap)

You should re-read this. Using it again will just be another waste of money as there are better techniques to yield the results you seek.

As has been pointed out already, asphalt isn't a vibration damper. If it stopped rattles it did so by mobilizing the moving parts - duct tape would work as well. If it increased SPL, it did so by sealing air leaks. Asphalt is an inherently unstable material and a poor choice for this application. Installation has very little to do with anything. There have been several asphalt fans who have used incredibly meticulous and elaborate procedures and still ended up with failures.

[djjdnap 78]

I used ice guard, thought it didn't have the gravel on there but did.

Man 3 sheets of that stuff is no joke, on top of regular car foam and carpet..

now when i get to the roof that might be a different story.

You could also try to find some molded carpet for your lid that way it wont fall off..per/se

When i had my town car i stuffed the lid with old clothes and it didn't rattle at all.

On the other hand it gained some weight too so it wouldn't stay up with out assistance.

[TechSys 3]

And yea. I'll be using it again. Why? Well, since I redo my system aprox every 4 years, I can redo the deadener also, if needed. 4 layers of PNS or Protect-o-wrap for my whole van would cost about 1/4, maybe 1/2, the price of anything else. 4 layers will give me the same as 2 layers of anything else. I can spend the left over money on other things my needs (a v8 swap)

You should re-read this. Using it again will just be another waste of money as there are better techniques to yield the results you seek.

As has been pointed out already, asphalt isn't a vibration damper. If it stopped rattles it did so by mobilizing the moving parts - duct tape would work as well. If it increased SPL, it did so by sealing air leaks. Asphalt is an inherently unstable material and a poor choice for this application. Installation has very little to do with anything. There have been several asphalt fans who have used incredibly meticulous and elaborate procedures and still ended up with failures.

I don't need to read it again. I understood perfectly what he was saying, however, I know what works in my van, has worked in my van, and will always work in my van. I don't really care about the opinions of others. I just gave my thoughts about it. It may not be suitable for you or somebody else, but it is suitable for me and does the job quite well. Competitors used to use it quite a bit BEFORE dynacrap came around.

If I don't use it for the roof, I'll use a product under the soundstream name since it's better than most of the junk out there. There are other ways to deaden, people are just scared to try something different.

Edited May 2, 2011 by TechSys

[Impious 1,476]

There are other ways to deaden, people are just scared to try something different.

You're right. There's the proper way to accomplish a goal, and then the improper way. PNS and equivalent products fall (pun intended) into the latter category.

[TechSys 3]

There are other ways to deaden, people are just scared to try something different.

You're right. There's the proper way to accomplish a goal, and then the improper way. PNS and equivalent products fall (pun intended) into the latter category.

For you, yea. For me... it isn't a fall or fail if it lasted 3+ years and worked great while being where it was.

[///M5 2,833]

For you, yea. For me... it isn't a fall or fail if it lasted 3+ years and worked great while being where it was.

Fair enough. I understand it is working great for you, but curious what it is working great as? (ie, what were your goals in installing it that it achieves)

[Rudeboy 152]

For you, yea. For me... it isn't a fall or fail if it lasted 3+ years and worked great while being where it was.

Fair enough. I understand it is working great for you, but curious what it is working great as? (ie, what were your goals in installing it that it achieves)

P&S is a reasonable "lazy man's" choice in an SPL application if you don't care about having to redo it or having your interior damaged by melting asphalt. The two important things to avoid are panel movement/distortion and air leaks. Covering everything with P&S will help some with both and will do it without the potential negative (for SPL) conversion of vibration to heat you'd get with a vibration damper.

If I were an SPL competitor, I'd want to address both issues in the most effective way possible - bracing panels and sealing leaks. I really don't understand people who obsess over the equipment they use and then half ass the things that will make the biggest difference, but everybody looks at things differently.

In any case, this application might be justified for a subset of a very small minority of people considering these treatments. It gets dangerous when it isn't made clear that it would be a very poor choice for most.

[TechSys 3]

That is the reason why I said it may work for some and not for others.

As far as my application. I needed a quick way to do my roof in the van (1989 chevy astro). When I first installed the system the roof looked like a tidal wave, when the bass hit. One layer of the stuff took care of that. Yes, it did still move but no where near what it was before. Plus it was a lot quieter after the installation of it.

And I might be wrong on something. I did say I used Protect-O-Wrap. If I remember right it is a Hybrid Butyl product. I am not 100% sure on that and am looking for the specs to see.

I am wrong.... Found the info on the stuff I used.

Protecto Seal 45 is a 45 mil SBS modified rubberized asphalt self-adhered waterproofing membrane with a tough cross laminated polyethylene film laminated to an aluminum foil for UV resistance and weatherability

I probably could have used the super stick building tape as it's a hybrid butyl and is 45mil.

[///M5 2,833]

Rubberized asphalt is a joke trade name for asphalt btw, it isn't butyl.

[Rudeboy 152]

Anybody interested in maximizing SPL should watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Mt65xM4apFQ

[fofo07 0]

Um u must use a heat gun to apply peal and seal and a roller. Heat it up apply heat it and roll. Then it will never come off.

[Rudeboy 152]

Um u must use a heat gun to apply peal and seal and a roller. Heat it up apply heat it and roll. Then it will never come off.

That's false. Heat will greatly reduce the likelihood that it will fall off in a few days but does nothing to increase long term durability. It actually accelerates the deterioration of the rubber compounds added to the asphalt to improve heat tolerance. Luck is the only thing that plays a role in how long it will last.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

When i had my town car i stuffed the lid with old clothes and it didn't rattle at all.

On the other hand it gained some weight too so it wouldn't stay up with out assistance.

Old school hot rodders did this all the time with newspapers and magazines; works plenty well but as you said heavy as fuck

[fofo07 0]

Don, I disagree. First of all I live in northern Ohio so I don't have to explain the weather conditions that we ohioians endure. I'm not saying use the heat gun and melt it just make it tacky and stick it and roll. I've had this installed now for 4 years triple layered doors floor hatch and top. And I can honestly say with the extreme cold it has not peeled or fallen off. In fact I mistakenly applied some outside the panels which I cannot remove. It is permanent. For a lot of us on a budget (enforced by the wife) dynamat, fatmat etc is out of the question. If peal and seal is applied correctly it can do just fine. No marketing schemes or scientific research just common sense. And by that I mean cost. 1 roll of peal and seal 33 1/2 ft. By 3ft. At 41mil was 86.00. I used two rolls. triple layered. It more than justifies itself through cost. Now I must emphasize on installing it correctly or ur right it will separate as I have found out through trial and error. The surface must be prepped free of dirt and grease and oils. Prepsol works good. There's no odor even on the hottest days or even when the car has set for an hour running. For me and many others this product is an affordable solution to deadening especially when you can get 67ft by 3ft wide for around 200.00 and simply double layer or triple if u want that thickness. I have no rattles and sound is almost completely encompassed inside the car especially the bass which ideally is the goal for good sound is it not?

[NB50 206]

Don, I disagree. First of all I live in northern Ohio so I don't have to explain the weather conditions that we ohioians endure. I'm not saying use the heat gun and melt it just make it tacky and stick it and roll. I've had this installed now for 4 years triple layered doors floor hatch and top. And I can honestly say with the extreme cold it has not peeled or fallen off. In fact I mistakenly applied some outside the panels which I cannot remove. It is permanent. For a lot of us on a budget (enforced by the wife) dynamat, fatmat etc is out of the question. If peal and seal is applied correctly it can do just fine. No marketing schemes or scientific research just common sense. And by that I mean cost. 1 roll of peal and seal 33 1/2 ft. By 3ft. At 41mil was 86.00. I used two rolls. triple layered. It more than justifies itself through cost. Now I must emphasize on installing it correctly or ur right it will separate as I have found out through trial and error. The surface must be prepped free of dirt and grease and oils. Prepsol works good. There's no odor even on the hottest days or even when the car has set for an hour running. For me and many others this product is an affordable solution to deadening especially when you can get 67ft by 3ft wide for around 200.00 and simply double layer or triple if u want that thickness. I have no rattles and sound is almost completely encompassed inside the car especially the bass which ideally is the goal for good sound is it not?

What all did you do?

[Rudeboy 152]

Don, I disagree. First of all I live in northern Ohio so I don't have to explain the weather conditions that we ohioians endure. I'm not saying use the heat gun and melt it just make it tacky and stick it and roll. I've had this installed now for 4 years triple layered doors floor hatch and top. And I can honestly say with the extreme cold it has not peeled or fallen off. In fact I mistakenly applied some outside the panels which I cannot remove. It is permanent. For a lot of us on a budget (enforced by the wife) dynamat, fatmat etc is out of the question. If peal and seal is applied correctly it can do just fine. No marketing schemes or scientific research just common sense. And by that I mean cost. 1 roll of peal and seal 33 1/2 ft. By 3ft. At 41mil was 86.00. I used two rolls. triple layered. It more than justifies itself through cost. Now I must emphasize on installing it correctly or ur right it will separate as I have found out through trial and error. The surface must be prepped free of dirt and grease and oils. Prepsol works good. There's no odor even on the hottest days or even when the car has set for an hour running. For me and many others this product is an affordable solution to deadening especially when you can get 67ft by 3ft wide for around 200.00 and simply double layer or triple if u want that thickness. I have no rattles and sound is almost completely encompassed inside the car especially the bass which ideally is the goal for good sound is it not?

The durability issue has been argued extensively. Having followed and participated in the argument for 6 years, I can tell you that a very common progression is:

1) strongly endorsing the durability of asphalt based products.

2) having the asphalt melt out.

This has occurred with several well known advocates of extremely precise installation techniques.

This isn't to say your P&S will melt. The VOC's could have dissipated enough to leave the asphalt as a hard and relatively stable crud. It is to say that there is a high failure rate.

66' X 3' for $200 works out to a buck per ft². Now consider that the marketing hype I'm pushing suggests covering 25% of the surface with a proper vibration damper. Compared to 1 layer at 100% coverage, you're paying the equivalent of $4/ft². 2 layers and you're $8/ft². That really kills the cost advantage. More material means more work. Add having to heat it and it's much more work. What happens if the material needs to be removed for body work?

That's not to say that multiple layers of P&S won't create a barrier - a very light weight barrier, but a barrier none the less. It would actually work better if you didn't remove the release paper on the floor.

So it's really a balance between doing more work for less performance. Throw in the durability "questions" and it just doesn't make sense to me.

[///M5 2,833]

Why would constraining your deadener be a good idea instead of the panel you are trying to control?

[ssh 924]

I fucking love peel n seal--for my roof.