New BTL not very loud...

[edouble101 314]

Yeah. It drops no lower than 12.5. T1000.1bd to SAZ2500D

Voltage dropping to 12.5v isnt good imo. With a 225a alt and 2500wrms amp on music (doubtful you even come close to that rms rating), you shouldnt really have considerable voltage drop.

You went from a RF amp to Sundown. Sundown amps are no joke. You may want to consider upgrading or reworking your electrical wiring if needed. You might even need to look into XS Power battery up front and another XS Power battery near the amp. I have a feeling you are starving your Sundown amp.

Maybe your enclosure foe the sub is less than optimal.

Good luck

Whats wrong with voltage at 12.5?

Also, why wouldn't he have a considerable voltage drop? Assume at idle the 225a only puts out 150ish, the voltage is going to drop when the alternator is reaching its output limits.

I don't see how he is "starving" the amp either.

With the information the op supplied he changed amplifiers and upgraded to one with 2.5 times more potential output. Therefore the electrical requirement is 2.5 times more. But.........no additional electrical upgrades were done to support all the added power.

12.5v is basically the resting voltage of his battery. This means, to me, that his amp is pulling 100% power out of the alt and them dipping into battery reserves. Dead battery anyone? 13v or higher for me or my systems is turned down.

There are many unknown variables here, but my opinion stands.

Op, how hot does the amp get? Pretty hot I bet.

I ran my previous amp with the stock 120 amp alternator for.... 2 years I believe without incident. Voltage RARELY dropped below 13.8-14V. The time between the period where I upgraded alternators and sold my amp was maybe 2 weeks. That means that I played my "old system (old amp and sub)" for about two weeks with the upgraded alt. Voltage was fine still, obviously. The battery was replaced about 4 months ago. It's resting voltage is 12.6V. Your logic doesn't make sense. Just because I upgrade amplifiers does NOT mean I need to upgrade my electrical if it is already at or above par. I do not ride around playing tones either, so The amount of time my amplifier will draw full current is VERY short. You know about the dynamic properties of music, etc. 225*12.5 (the LOWEST voltage it will drop to) =2812.5. And this doesn't account for impedence rise. And it doesn't include the current the battery has available!!!!! I believe my electrical system is not the problem. I do not mean to be offensive, I just get the feeling that this is NOT and electrical system related problem. My friend was running a SAZ3500D to two 18" Xcons on stock electrical (150 amp alt and one battery temporarily) and he could drop to 11 V!!!!! And it was still loud as fawk.

Amp stays cool as a cucumber.

However, the dustcap of the sub got quite warm, which lead me to believe I was driving the amplifier into clipping, which baffles me, because it does not feel like 2500 watts of punishing power. It barely feels like 1000 watts!

I mentioned one possible culprit but it sounds like you have a good understanding of the electrical aspect. Obviously I do not know that your wiring can support +2500wrms, but you do.

[nick_19 1]

If the dustcap of the sub is hot..and it is not moving, you have a coil out of phase.

Take the sub out take a picture of both terminals label them 1 and 2, positive should always be on your left.

Occasionally there is one that has the bands mixed up on the wrong side...it does happen once in a blue moon we miss it and dont get them swapped over.

The sub was moving, but it could be just one of the coils. How can I test for this Nick? Should I hook each coil up individually?

[nick_19 1]

I mentioned one possible culprit but it sounds like you have a good understanding of the electrical aspect. Obviously I do not know that your wiring can support +2500wrms, but you do.

Thanks for the help

I'll figure this out somehow for sure.

[pmureika 31]

What size wiring do you have going to the amps and what size ground wire. Also how long of a ground. with proper size wiring 12.5 volts isnt acceptable at the amps.

[jcarter1885 995]

If the dustcap of the sub is hot..and it is not moving, you have a coil out of phase.

Take the sub out take a picture of both terminals label them 1 and 2, positive should always be on your left.

Occasionally there is one that has the bands mixed up on the wrong side...it does happen once in a blue moon we miss it and dont get them swapped over.

The sub was moving, but it could be just one of the coils. How can I test for this Nick? Should I hook each coil up individually?

He made a video on youtube I believe and a topic on this forum about it, just have to search for it.

[chrishova 2]

That sux! I know you will figure it out! I can send you my Punch 1000 and a dmm, it's just sitting around, lol

[nick_19 1]

What size wiring do you have going to the amps and what size ground wire. Also how long of a ground. with proper size wiring 12.5 volts isnt acceptable at the amps.

1/0 all around

1.5 ft. ground

[nick_19 1]

If the dustcap of the sub is hot..and it is not moving, you have a coil out of phase.

Take the sub out take a picture of both terminals label them 1 and 2, positive should always be on your left.

Occasionally there is one that has the bands mixed up on the wrong side...it does happen once in a blue moon we miss it and dont get them swapped over.

The sub was moving, but it could be just one of the coils. How can I test for this Nick? Should I hook each coil up individually?

He made a video on youtube I believe and a topic on this forum about it, just have to search for it.

I know how to measure the resistance of the coils, but how would I tell if one got "the bands mixed up on the wrong side"?

[altoncustomtech 773]

bump test it with a 9v battery.... if it moves out, then polarity of the terminals is correct, if it moves in... well one got missed as Nick said.

[pmureika 31]

bump test it with a 9v battery.... if it moves out, then polarity of the terminals is correct, if it moves in... well one got missed as Nick said.

Great answer!!!!!

g

[edouble101 314]

bump test it with a 9v battery.... if it moves out, then polarity of the terminals is correct, if it moves in... well one got missed as Nick said.

No chit man, good info

[altoncustomtech 773]

Sometimes it's easy to overlook the obvious things. This can help make sure the terminals AND the wiring are correct. Also, in my mind if it moves more being bump tested by the battery than it does on the amp then that may help point to a possible issue with the amp. From what I've read, I'm convinced it's either a problem in the wiring or in the amp itself. Time will tell though.

OP, do you have a buddy with a system that you can run some speaker wire from your sub to his amp and see how it does? If it does a great deal better, that could point to a problem in the amp. Otherwise, as much as I'd hate to see it, there could be some funny issue with the sub ultimately. Testing and troubleshooting will be the only way to know for sure though.

[the727kid 1]

I'm calling a RCA issue.

[TechSys 3]

Recheck everything 3 times or more. Make sure everything is right. Reason I'm saying this, well, I'll tell you a little story.

A couple weeks ago I changed out my old enclosure for a 4th order. After going through all the rewiring of the subs, amps, and back battery (only had 1 battery in the back of the van at the time), Rival904 and I went to test the new enclosure. Got to the spot we wanted to test it, turned on the system, very little of any sound came out. The subs subs were hitting about as much as a person could do with their fingers tapping on mdf. The mids and highs were very low.

We spent some time trying to figure out what was wrong. I the RCAs (rival had a spare set), still nothing. We messed with the wiring between subs and amps, still nothing. Afte about 2 hours of total confusion I found the problem. When I installed the back battery, I forgot to connect the ground wire to it. Everything was powering up, just not fully. I'm actually surprised I didn't burn something up. Connected the ground wire, went back to test, and the system came alive.

Was the most confusing day I have ever had in car audio. Something that simple that I forgot to do to cause so much problem.

So, like I say, recheck everything with a fine tooth comb.

[Handcrafted Car Audio 42]

Your old RF amp had an input sensitivity range of this:

Variable from 150mV to 4V

(RCA Input) http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/scripts/rightnow.cfg/php.exe/enduser/fattach_get.php?p_sid=9wNlhGsk&p_tbl=9&p_id=830&p_created=1171906789 (page 14)

Your sundown amp has an input range of this:

200mV to 6V (+/- 5%)

http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/item/saz-2500d.html

3/4 gain means nothing. Truth be told, 3/4 anything means nothing. When you adjust the gain on your amp, you are simply matching it to the output of the headunit so that the amp knows that at a particular voltage on it's inputs, you'd be very grateful if it would produce a particular output. Your old amp had a relatively small input signal range, meaning that each little adjustment was a bigger step than it is on your new amp, which has a much larger input sensitivity range.

My suggestion to you is to get a scope, I'm guessing you have access to one, and reset the levels throughout your entire system starting with your headunit and move downstream. Get your output on each device as high as you can without clipping. Do this, maybe with a little gain overlap, and I'll bet you're more than happy.

[nick_19 1]

Ok I didn't bump test each coil or measure each could individually but I dis test the overall resistance and got .7 ohms exactly, as it should be (two 1.4 ohm coils in parallel).

[pmureika 31]

Get someone more knowledgeable or to an audio store so they can check it out.

[ford302redneck 15]

Its really hard to say, and nobody is going to give you the right answer without you actually trying what they suggest.

It could be as simple as having the postive and negative switched on one coil.

Either recheck every detail with a fine tooth comb, or have somebody else do it. Some times another person can spot something you missed or think is correct.

[REVpuggie 23]

Get someone more knowledgeable or to an audio store so they can check it out.

someone as knowledgable but a with fresh view on things could be sufficiant .

[emfk 3]

i'm guessing all your grounds are good and all the paint is scrapped away?

That was my last problem. Also, might have something to do with the headunit settings?

I'm hoping you figure this out soon. Must be killing you to have to wait 20+ days after dropping all that money on a new btl, and then something is wrong.

[BigCProductions99 21]

Sounds Like An Amplifier And/Or Headunit Setting Issue, Either That Or Wiring.

Check Your Sub Volume On Your HU, Reset Your LPF At The Amplifier As Well.

Too Hard To Diagnose A Problem Like This Without Physically Being There, Much Less Without Pics.

[ford302redneck 15]

A simple pop with a 9v battery test will clear up if you have a coil wired out of phase. And this should be the FIRST thing to do. Just because the impedance you measured if correct doesn't meant its wired in phase correctly.

Please do this ASAP before doing anything else. This will cause the sub to move, get hot, but not be loud at all.

I can't believe you ask for help, get suggestions, then do whatever you think will clear up the question.

A pop test would of been just as easy as measuring the overall impedance. Yet what you done didn't help you much.

[BigCProductions99 21]

A simple pop with a 9v battery test will clear up if you have a coil wired out of phase. And this should be the FIRST thing to do. Just because the impedance you measured if correct doesn't meant its wired in phase correctly.

Please do this ASAP before doing anything else. This will cause the sub to move, get hot, but not be loud at all.

I can't believe you ask for help, get suggestions, then do whatever you think will clear up the question.

A pop test would of been just as easy as measuring the overall impedance. Yet what you done didn't help you much.

I Thought He Had Already Done This. OP, If You Haven't, This Is The First Thing That Should've Been Done.

[Adrian_D 520]

Ok I didn't bump test each coil or measure each could individually but I dis test the overall resistance and got .7 ohms exactly, as it should be (two 1.4 ohm coils in parallel).

Battery test is the best thing you can do at this point. I will rule out one thing that changed in your setup.

The other thing that changed is the amp. You can only rule it out by testing with another amp.

[ford302redneck 15]

Edit.