4th order build continued (M5)

[smashedz28 110]

I thought this thread was going to get good yesterday when I saw it.. tonight its turned to trash. Should have closed this thread when it started. Basically what im getting from this is a bunch of drama.. not much to be learned except we have a bunch of thick headed people here trying to prove something without actually proving it. M5 asks a few different questions over and over and I dont think ive seen anyone actually give him the answer or anything close to it he's looking for. Sorry to bust in here with emotions, i couldn't resist.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

or ///m5 is asleep like most people who have bed times are lol! I know that is where I am headed now and so is impious !!

[Alan Palmer 3]

I thought this thread was going to get good yesterday when I saw it.. tonight its turned to trash. Should have closed this thread when it started. Basically what im getting from this is a bunch of drama.. not much to be learned except we have a bunch of thick headed people here trying to prove something without actually proving it. M5 asks a few different questions over and over and I dont think ive seen anyone actually give him the answer or anything close to it he's looking for. Sorry to bust in here with emotions, i couldn't resist.

its been proved sir. the results speak for themselves. regardless of whatever math, science, or magic dust that was used in graphing this build, it is not "peaky", etc. it performs extremely well given the entry level gear, and does so across the frequency spectrum. that is the only fact relevant to this situation.

i personally havent seen m5 answer any question he was asked either.. simply asking questions and acting offended at any directed towards him.

[Ryan6789 0]

I thought this thread was going to get good yesterday when I saw it.. tonight its turned to trash. Should have closed this thread when it started. Basically what im getting from this is a bunch of drama.. not much to be learned except we have a bunch of thick headed people here trying to prove something without actually proving it. M5 asks a few different questions over and over and I dont think ive seen anyone actually give him the answer or anything close to it he's looking for. Sorry to bust in here with emotions, i couldn't resist.

[Alan Palmer 3]

or ///m5 is asleep like most people who have bed times are lol! I know that is where I am headed now and so is impious !!

together?

couldnt resist. sorry.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

or ///m5 is asleep like most people who have bed times are lol! I know that is where I am headed now and so is impious !!

together?

couldnt resist. sorry.

meh no worries! impious is a cool kat!

notice where he lives! in HELL and I live in Canada! we are clearly the opposite end of the spectrum! (cold vs hot lol)

[Alan Palmer 3]

lol. no comment...

Edited April 27, 2011 by Alan Palmer

[Ryan6789 0]

or ///m5 is asleep like most people who have bed times are lol! I know that is where I am headed now and so is impious !!

together?

couldnt resist. sorry.

meh no worries! impious is a cool kat!

notice where he lives! in HELL and I live in Canada! we are clearly the opposite end of the spectrum! (cold vs hot lol)

in vs out

top vs bottom

Edited April 27, 2011 by Ryan6789

[Darkjustice 0]

I thought this thread was going to get good yesterday when I saw it.. tonight its turned to trash. Should have closed this thread when it started. Basically what im getting from this is a bunch of drama.. not much to be learned except we have a bunch of thick headed people here trying to prove something without actually proving it. M5 asks a few different questions over and over and I dont think ive seen anyone actually give him the answer or anything close to it he's looking for. Sorry to bust in here with emotions, i couldn't resist.

you do realize this applies to M5 too right? i asked quite some time ago how he came to all of his conclusions, as in an in-depth explanation how with the information he was given. i also asked the same of anyone else that 'reached' his conclusion. i never got an answer either. if he can actually explain something instead of getting defensive and letting emotion drive his fingers then maybe things can go in another direction

[topgun 262]

you brought a graph, and a rudimentary knowledge of physics to the table. nothing thus far has been credited towards you in the form of experience with boxes, spl, designs, cars, etc.

Have you ever stopped to think that telling about who he is, what he has done, accomplishments, etc will not help him at all here? Throwing a bunch of personal information into a public forum isn't always the best idea and people can dig that up years from now and use it in ways it wasn't intended for.

That being said, you may want to rethink what ///M5 brings to the table. If you don't like the answers you get, ask the question a different way.

You may even realize ///M5 knows something and hell, you may even realize that you can learn something from him even though you don't look at things the same way, you could still learn something. Just because whatever something does now works fine/great/fantastic does not mean there isn't a better way to do it. Listening and discussing the topic at hand like some reasonable people certainly can not hurt.

If this topic doesn't stay on track about box design, you may get a small vacation from here. You are warned.

[Alan Palmer 3]

you brought a graph, and a rudimentary knowledge of physics to the table. nothing thus far has been credited towards you in the form of experience with boxes, spl, designs, cars, etc.

Have you ever stopped to think that telling about who he is, what he has done, accomplishments, etc will not help him at all here? Throwing a bunch of personal information into a public forum isn't always the best idea and people can dig that up years from now and use it in ways it wasn't intended for.

That being said, you may want to rethink what ///M5 brings to the table. If you don't like the answers you get, ask the question a different way.

You may even realize ///M5 knows something and hell, you may even realize that you can learn something from him even though you don't look at things the same way, you could still learn something. Just because whatever something does now works fine/great/fantastic does not mean there isn't a better way to do it. Listening and discussing the topic at hand like some reasonable people certainly can not hurt.

If this topic doesn't stay on track about box design, you may get a small vacation from here. You are warned.

first off, you can take your warning and go shove it. thats the way i feel. if you are going to "warn" me to watch myself and stay on topic when its your own mods that drop this into the off topic realm constantly by dodging questions, insulting florida, etc, then.. well. you sir, are a fail.

now then, the reason credentials were asked for is because, once again, thus far, he has posted a graph, and said it wont work. the people that built it are the authority at the moment... they hold various titles, world records, more successful design/builds than you can count, and operate a serious business pertaining to box design and building. i trust their opinion over someone that so far has no credit to his name, and remains in my eyes a computer jockey that uses the same programs anyone else can use to get a rough estimate of what boxes will sound like in a perfect world, or with a basic generalized "vehicle acoustic response" estimate. if thats all he's got, then we really dont have to continue this discussion. im fine with you locking it to be honest, and if that is to include my banning from this forum, fine. point proven.

[TechSys 3]

Asking for credentials on the internet is just like going into a shop to have some work done. You want to know what that shop is capable of doing and if they have experience in doing the work you want. They don't give out personal information.

As shop that refuses to let you see past work and experience is a shop I'll never visit. A person that refuses to prove his/her experience on the internet is a person that I will not take any advice from.

I really like how M5 is sidestepping the questions. I really like how others are pretty much taking up for him. But.... I don't care is there is a whole city that refers me to one certain shop, or person, if I can't see the past experience I won't do business there. And that is a fact of life.

[shizzzon 461]

And you never sit back and think why people are siding with M5...

Instead, everyone wanting to be offensive and take pride that you "win" this and "win" that sounds arrogant and nobody wants to help someone who acts like that.

It's the same attitude a teenager has. They think they know everything.

I'm just letting you know that's how this whole argument looks and if it doesn't change it's attitude soon.. it will be completely over.

It's funny how after everyone goes to sleep last night that all kinds of "new members" come on this thread and start badgering him and think they won an argument?

Arrogance.

M5 is VERY knowledgeable..

There is a reason why Impious, M5, Topgun and i think even Tirefryr are all over this topic and are persistent about the conversation.

If they were not knowledgeable.. why would they still be persistent?

Now, you guys think M5 is dodging your questions and we know you guys are dodging his..

Why am i looking at it like that?

He wants to know, for example, how a user can trust a designer who may know a lot about 1 note wonder boxes, but implied from the users here, that he is not known for doing musical daily designs.

It's been said a thousand times already that this design was for music, not competition. But when M5 starts to ask info about the design.. all we keep getting is the designer has built winning boxes for competition.

How does that have anything to do with musical boxes?

These are TWO totally different box designs.

So.. based on that info.. still, the only info he or we have, it appears the knowledge that was involved in making the design was from a pure competitor point of view, a peaky point of view.

M5 has yet to be told what info the designer used to build the design...

What is it, where is it?

Without this info, it is pointless to keep nagging him about it because he WANTS TO HELP\EDUCATE those involved so they can understand what he wants to express.

But you guys want his credentials prior to helping yourself?

I hope you see how ridiculous that looks.

Now, back on topic i hope.

[Godsmack 361]

And you never sit back and think why people are siding with M5...

Instead, everyone wanting to be offensive and take pride that you "win" this and "win" that sounds arrogant and nobody wants to help someone who acts like that.

It's the same attitude a teenager has. They think they know everything.

I'm just letting you know that's how this whole argument looks and if it doesn't change it's attitude soon.. it will be completely over.

It's funny how after everyone goes to sleep last night that all kinds of "new members" come on this thread and start badgering him and think they won an argument?

Arrogance.

M5 is VERY knowledgeable..

There is a reason why Impious, M5, Topgun and i think even Tirefryr are all over this topic and are persistent about the conversation.

If they were not knowledgeable.. why would they still be persistent?

Now, you guys think M5 is dodging your questions and we know you guys are dodging his..

Why am i looking at it like that?

He wants to know, for example, how a user can trust a designer who may know a lot about 1 note wonder boxes, but implied from the users here, that he is not known for doing musical daily designs.

It's been said a thousand times already that this design was for music, not competition. But when M5 starts to ask info about the design.. all we keep getting is the designer has built winning boxes for competition.

How does that have anything to do with musical boxes?

These are TWO totally different box designs.

So.. based on that info.. still, the only info he or we have, it appears the knowledge that was involved in making the design was from a pure competitor point of view, a peaky point of view.

M5 has yet to be told what info the designer used to build the design...

What is it, where is it?

Without this info, it is pointless to keep nagging him about it because he WANTS TO HELP\EDUCATE those involved so they can understand what he wants to express.

But you guys want his credentials prior to helping yourself?

I hope you see how ridiculous that looks.

Now, back on topic i hope.

Shizzzon,

This may be one of your best posts yet. I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?'

J

[Randal Johnson 544]

I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?'

These guys came across something with this enclosure that works for them in competition ... and they are winning !!!

If I was them, I would not give exact specs to their design either ... They aparently have a winning edge with this design. If they give their "TRUE" secrets to their design, then someone will come along, read their designs, and come up with something better and beat them at their own game ...

Its not a question if they "went by the book to build this" ... You all are wanting to exploit their tricks of the trade to see if they are cheating, or someone in your competition camp is building something to compete in their class and is wanting the upper hand in competition ...

I congratulate them for coming up with something "out of the ordinary" and kicking ASS with it ...

Last time, as I recall in competition, thats how and why you play the game ... To WIN ...

[Duran 387]

I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?'

These guys came across something with this enclosure that works for them in competition ... and they are winning !!!

If I was them, I would not give exact specs to their design either ... They aparently have a winning edge with this design. If they give their "TRUE" secrets to their design, then someone will come along, read their designs, and come up with something better and beat them at their own game ...

Its not a question if they "went by the book to build this" ... You all are wanting to exploit their tricks of the trade to see if they are cheating, or someone in your competition camp is building something to compete in their class and is wanting the upper hand in competition ...

I congratulate them for coming up with something "out of the ordinary" and kicking ASS with it ...

Last time, as I recall in competition, thats how and why you play the game ... To WIN ...

There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Why should they give their specs ??

[Duran 387]

Why should they give their specs ??

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good.

[Darkjustice 0]

I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?'

These guys came across something with this enclosure that works for them in competition ... and they are winning !!!

If I was them, I would not give exact specs to their design either ... They aparently have a winning edge with this design. If they give their "TRUE" secrets to their design, then someone will come along, read their designs, and come up with something better and beat them at their own game ...

Its not a question if they "went by the book to build this" ... You all are wanting to exploit their tricks of the trade to see if they are cheating, or someone in your competition camp is building something to compete in their class and is wanting the upper hand in competition ...

I congratulate them for coming up with something "out of the ordinary" and kicking ASS with it ...

Last time, as I recall in competition, thats how and why you play the game ... To WIN ...

There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything.

noone said anything was unique. he said the builder/designer was wrong in every way and the box would be a failure, but it isnt. not even maliboom said it was special, or that all boxes should be built like his. just ' hey guys this is my mailbu and this is my wall' and people started shittin on it without him ever asking for advice on it. plus the builders/designers havent posted because theyve been busy but im sure they will chime in once they can

[Darkjustice 0]

Why should they give their specs ??

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good.

why does the enclosure sound bad?

[Randal Johnson 544]

Why should they give their specs ??

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good.

They are winning competitions, not really needing to know if their design works or sounds good, and you are wanting to know what brand of snake oil and fairy dust they used ???

You docked me 2 rep points and this is all you can come up with Duran ??? Sounds like you are the one trying to discredit their build ... not M5 ...

[Ryan6789 0]

I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?'

These guys came across something with this enclosure that works for them in competition ... and they are winning !!!

Yb

If I was them, I would not give exact specs to their design either ... They aparently have a winning edge with this design. If they give their "TRUE" secrets to their design, then someone will come along, read their designs, and come up with something better and beat them at their own game ...

Its not a question if they "went by the book to build this" ... You all are wanting to exploit their tricks of the trade to see if they are cheating, or someone in your competition camp is building something to compete in their class and is wanting the upper hand in competition ...

I congratulate them for coming up with something "out of the ordinary" and kicking ASS with it ...

Last time, as I recall in competition, thats how and why you play the game ... To WIN ...

There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything.

Maybe because the designers of this enclosure are not even following this argument anymore. They both know what they are doing, and don't need to prove it to a bunch of arrogant bastards.

The argument was going no where. ///m5 was side stepping anything asked of him, maybe a few people replying were also side stepping questions asked by m5 and a few others, but the ones doing so were not the designers, nor do they havr anu knowledge of the design besides "I havr heard it and it sounds great". If you haven't noticed neither JBlcamry or Iamamp3pimp(the designers) havr posted in this thread.

Totally unbiased opinion seeing as how I have not even hears Ryans malibu.

[lb187 9]

I think the main question in this thread (at least to me) isn't so much a 'why are you challenging a world record box designer's ideas?' as much as it is a 'what makes this box design so amazing, with all the graphic scientific equasions showing that it should not in a normal environment work this way? And if the graphs are incorrect, or the design differs from what the graph shows, then what changes were made to create these results?'

There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything.

@Godsmack:

Its called actual experience in building on a daily basis.

This seems what its about people want to pick there brains.

No one ever said there was anything special.

M5's 1st post in the build log was...

"Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that."

He (M5) needs to prove as to why. I don't want to hear physics and acoustics because the build is done. In fact he was going off a graph made by another "tech team" member

Why should they give their specs ??

So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good.

Why a more accurate curve need to be made now after the build is done and completed M5 says he has the same assumptions as designer/builder.

He shouldn't need specs he should post his own specs with his own design showing why its better. Not just say it.

"Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that."

No education no proof no facts there just an opinion.

also you guys yell keep it on topic?? there are several posts made here that dont even involve the topic including people making "joke post" over in the Skar audio section.........

[S.DeYoung 968]

I still haven't seen proof that this thing SOUNDS good. There have been posted term-lab numbers. I have not seen a response curve or term-lab readings at different frequencies. Everyone is asking ///M5 of proof on why it will not sound good but where is the proof that it does? Stop this "I sat in the malibu and it sounds awesome" shit.

[lb187 9]

I still haven't seen proof that this thing SOUNDS good. There have been posted term-lab numbers. I have not seen a response curve or term-lab readings at different frequencies. Everyone is asking ///M5 of proof on why it will not sound good but where is the proof that it does? Stop this "I sat in the malibu and it sounds awesome" shit.

M5 started off by saying someones math was wrong very wrong.

No proof. Just because HE says.

That's just like me telling you Your box will sound like crap without any questions about it.