steve's anti-cliiping device

[ford302redneck 15]

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10244

Pocket sized oscope..size of a garmin...100 bucks.

Nice find. That's awesome looking. I have a handheld oscope I bought for 120 still brand new off ebay. Really, that SMD device has to be less than $50 to be worth it compared to the oscopes you can get.

Exactly.

A affordable Oscope is already available, and Steve's device doesn't even show you wave just a red light.

Now the other thing he was working on, the little gauge thing like what's on RF amps, the LED needle that goes up with volume and could be set to go into red at clipping, could be a semi more useful device.

As people could set it, then monitor it during actual music and ect. But then again, if its going to cost 100-200 dollars, the kids who actually need it, won't have the money to spend on something that doesn't enhance their audio setup in anyway.

[ford302redneck 15]

I'm sure that steve's clipping tool works, but still won't help people from blowing up their equipment. Like if I use that tool to set the gain on a sundown 1500d with a 300 watt sub. The sub will blow long before the amp starts to clip. Unless I'm misunderstanding something

Also the scope nick posted looks pretty good, and for $100 and the fact it's open source makes it even better.

I'd still rather trust my ears.

I hope that was a joke.

As you can't hear the beginning of a square wave on a subwoofer.

My headunit clips at 31, out of 35. And I could never hear it start at 31.

It clipped at 35 regardless of what I had the sub output control on. -/+15. So on negative 15 on volume 35, it is a clipped signal, even though it doesn't put out hardly any voltage.( I can't remember the exact number.)

Just a example that I've came across. I have a Kenwood X789 if anybody is wondering.

[An-i-no 86]

I'm sure that steve's clipping tool works, but still won't help people from blowing up their equipment. Like if I use that tool to set the gain on a sundown 1500d with a 300 watt sub. The sub will blow long before the amp starts to clip. Unless I'm misunderstanding something

Also the scope nick posted looks pretty good, and for $100 and the fact it's open source makes it even better.

I'd still rather trust my ears.

I hope that was a joke.

As you can't hear the beginning of a square wave on a subwoofer.

My headunit clips at 31, out of 35. And I could never hear it start at 31.

It clipped at 35 regardless of what I had the sub output control on. -/+15. So on negative 15 on volume 35, it is a clipped signal, even though it doesn't put out hardly any voltage.( I can't remember the exact number.)

Just a example that I've came across. I have a Kenwood X789 if anybody is wondering.

If you can't hear it...and it isn't damaging anything...then what's the problem? The sub itself masks clipping up to a certain percent (can't remember off the top of my head) so you wouldn't notice anyway. Having a 10000% clip-free system isn't as cool as people make it out to be.

[ford302redneck 15]

I'm sure that steve's clipping tool works, but still won't help people from blowing up their equipment. Like if I use that tool to set the gain on a sundown 1500d with a 300 watt sub. The sub will blow long before the amp starts to clip. Unless I'm misunderstanding something

Also the scope nick posted looks pretty good, and for $100 and the fact it's open source makes it even better.

I'd still rather trust my ears.

I hope that was a joke.

As you can't hear the beginning of a square wave on a subwoofer.

My headunit clips at 31, out of 35. And I could never hear it start at 31.

It clipped at 35 regardless of what I had the sub output control on. -/+15. So on negative 15 on volume 35, it is a clipped signal, even though it doesn't put out hardly any voltage.( I can't remember the exact number.)

Just a example that I've came across. I have a Kenwood X789 if anybody is wondering.

If you can't hear it...and it isn't damaging anything...then what's the problem? The sub itself masks clipping up to a certain percent (can't remember off the top of my head) so you wouldn't notice anyway. Having a 10000% clip-free system isn't as cool as people make it out to be.

So your saying, as long as you can't hear clipping your in the good?

Thing about it, the ones who need to worry about clipping, has no idea what it sounds like.

Sure, people center around clipping a little more than needed, but this is to try and teach people who doesn't fully understand it. It doesn't really doesn't have to do with having a 100% clipped free setup, but to the people running over RMS full square wave to a driver.

But it does make people automatically think clipping is the worst possible thing, and no driver can handle a soft clip. Which isn't totally true.

I've never been one to set everything to be clip free, and yet I've never had any problems. I have played around with a Oscope to answer some curiosty I had, and it did surprise me on how easy it is to clip and not even know it.

[TechSys 3]

How can you make something clip free when every CD you buy from the store already has clipping on it?

Just a question. Looks like those that chase clipping are fighting a useless battle.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Set everything to be clip free and you better enjoy being quite. LOL

At some point you need to learn to trust your eyes, ears, and nose. They are the best tools in you have.

[An-i-no 86]

Set everything to be clip free and you better enjoy being quite. LOL

At some point you need to learn to trust your eyes, ears, and nose. They are the best tools in you have.

What he said. I just think if you need expensive tools to tell you when your shit's about to break then hit the internet, library or whatever and do some reading or something. And yes 302, if you're clipping and can't hear it it's 100% cool as long as nothing breaks. Not everybody needs to be in the round wave club. It gets bad when you start breaking stuff.

[Beandip 3]

Actually I am being quite serious. I may not hit 1847495 dee beez like a lot of people here but I have been into audio for awhile, well 6 years lol. But im very observant. I had a lot of hours with free crappy equipment back when first started so I know very well what happens or how the sub acts when stressed. I blew my fair share of old trashed subs for the purpose of learning and building an ear for it.

But really. I set the gain by ear and with common sense. Now I do have a sealed box so really I just go off excursion and listen to the woofer for stress. If I reach peak excursion I back the gain down a tad then run a full sweep of frequencies to see if I am pushing the sub too hard. Now the gain would be set, but of course once you pop in a cd that is recorded at a different level those settings and adjustments are off. I kinda keep an analog volt meter hooked up to see how the sub is doing voltage wise. I know at a certain voltage the sub starts to sound like it's being pushed too hard so with that volt meter I can keep a tab on the sub no matter what frequency or source is hooked up.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense but either way setting the gain by ear is the way to go. As stated a little clipping never hurts anything. It's when it becomes audible it does damage. But I'm sure a lot of other factors like box and the wattage of the sub/amp come into play. If anything I want an oscope Because of curiosity and for Troubleshooting.

Apparently I have been doing it right since my last sub lasted 3 years until I blew it out of stupidity of having a 1000 watt amp on a mtx 300 watt sub. I was doing a "demo" and pushed too hard. But even then the Q I have now is still going strong. All the other systems I tuned or built for friends are still going with my gain settings to this day

I'm sure that steve's clipping tool works, but still won't help people from blowing up their equipment. Like if I use that tool to set the gain on a sundown 1500d with a 300 watt sub. The sub will blow long before the amp starts to clip. Unless I'm misunderstanding something

Also the scope nick posted looks pretty good, and for $100 and the fact it's open source makes it even better.

I'd still rather trust my ears.

I hope that was a joke.

As you can't hear the beginning of a square wave on a subwoofer.

My headunit clips at 31, out of 35. And I could never hear it start at 31.

It clipped at 35 regardless of what I had the sub output control on. -/+15. So on negative 15 on volume 35, it is a clipped signal, even though it doesn't put out hardly any voltage.( I can't remember the exact number.)

Just a example that I've came across. I have a Kenwood X789 if anybody is wondering.

Edited May 1, 2011 by beandip

[ford302redneck 15]

Set everything to be clip free and you better enjoy being quite. LOL

At some point you need to learn to trust your eyes, ears, and nose. They are the best tools in you have.

What he said. I just think if you need expensive tools to tell you when your shit's about to break then hit the internet, library or whatever and do some reading or something. And yes 302, if you're clipping and can't hear it it's 100% cool as long as nothing breaks. Not everybody needs to be in the round wave club. It gets bad when you start breaking stuff.

If nothing breaks. Lol. Well isn't that suppose to be the point of trying to keep everything from clipping? I mean I know a sqaure wave doesn't automatically kill a sub. But it will cause it to break faster. And still there has been debates on this for years.

I'm not sure what your trying to prove. Most people with general knowlegde understands this. Like I said in my other post to you, people center out clipping for others who don't really know any better.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

pretty cool device I wonder how it work though, how it detects clipping. like with a screen we can visually see the clip but on his device i wonder how it detects it.

[ford302redneck 15]

pretty cool device I wonder how it work though, how it detects clipping. like with a screen we can visually see the clip but on his device i wonder how it detects it.

I would assume it works the sameway instead of showing you the wave, you give you a light.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

ya but how does the light know when to turn on, like when a signal clips is there an output difference that this handled can sense? or what?

[Impious 1,476]

ya but how does the light know when to turn on, like when a signal clips is there an output difference that this handled can sense? or what?

It's measuring harmonic distortion. Which is why they give you a test disc that plays specific frequencies, as it will only be capable of measuring the harmonics of those specific frequencies. If you, for example, play a 60hz tone then there will be harmonic distortion at 120hz, 180hz, 240hz, etc. The 60hz tone is the fundamental and the multiple of the fundamental is the order of the harmonic distortion. So 60hz is the fundamental, then 120hz is the 2nd order harmonic, 180hz is the 3rd order, 240hz is the 4th order, so on and so forth.

So all it's doing is measuring the level of the harmonics in relation to the fundamental and when it gets to a certain level it lights up a light. I can't give specifics of it's design or explain exactly how it determines when to light up (as I simply don't know), but that's basically the jist of how it's going to work.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

oo i get you! thanks for explaining to me how that works! I guess the clip indicator on certain amps would work in a similar manner!

[Impious 1,476]

I guess the clip indicator on certain amps would work in a similar manner!

Not quite. Those probably work by simply lighting up the light when the output voltage reaches a certain level, not actually measuring the signal for clipping.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

I guess the clip indicator on certain amps would work in a similar manner!

Not quite. Those probably work by simply lighting up the light when the output voltage reaches a certain level, not actually measuring the signal for clipping.

umm i c! so would they be a bit less accurate then?

[ulrisa 26]

I guess the clip indicator on certain amps would work in a similar manner!

Not quite. Those probably work by simply lighting up the light when the output voltage reaches a certain level, not actually measuring the signal for clipping.

umm i c! so would they be a bit less accurate then?

Correct, the amp clip light is much more inexact. It does not actually "look" at the wave form. The harmonic distortion analyzer examines the magnitude of the different harmonics. Knowing the amplitude of each harmonic can give you a general idea of what the waveform looks like that is creating them do to known Fourier series. It's more like a handheld FFT (for audio) than an O-scope. Sinusoids do not have harmonics, but square waves (and all other forms) do.

[///M5 2,833]

A affordable Oscope is already available, and Steve's device doesn't even show you wave just a red light.

And a much better tool. Generically knowing that you clip at one frequency at one level isn't really very useful. Dubious to push things so far that you are borderline on clipping when even fairly well below will not be an audible difference. In the last thread about this device, they surely didn't like that argument.

Now the other thing he was working on, the little gauge thing like what's on RF amps, the LED needle that goes up with volume and could be set to go into red at clipping, could be a semi more useful device.

As people could set it, then monitor it during actual music and ect. But then again, if its going to cost 100-200 dollars, the kids who actually need it, won't have the money to spend on something that doesn't enhance their audio setup in anyway.

Those won't work however as the whole reason his clipping tool works is that it forces you to measure at certain pre-programmed frequencies. Having a system to determine the clipped versus non-clipped energy requires rather sophisticated electronics that cannot be packaged cheaply enough to sell to the masses. Surely way more than $200.

How can you make something clip free when every CD you buy from the store already has clipping on it?

Just a question. Looks like those that chase clipping are fighting a useless battle.

And that makes it even worse. Of course not only clipped CD's but even different levels of recording make this an exercise in futility.

IMO, it is flat out that is a dumb product that no one should buy. If for some reason (and there are definitely valid ones) you feel the need to know what your amplifier is doing the o-scope link is a much better solution always.

[xiihustleix 6]

I need to take a look at this link. A non expensive o'scope : that can be very useful.

Agreed.

[ford302redneck 15]

M5, regardless if in reality this device doesn't really help anybody, half of his forum and good bit of followers, will buy this product. And think they have a clip free setup, and I wouldn't be surprised if they inreturn pushed there setup harder than if not knowing it is clipfree(supposely) and end up blowing equipment.

Regardless to a extent, clipping isn't what burns voicecoils. Even though people will swear it does.

Common Sense> SMDs Clipping Device.

[kirill007 52]

M5, regardless if in reality this device doesn't really help anybody, half of his forum and good bit of followers, will buy this product. And think they have a clip free setup, and I wouldn't be surprised if they inreturn pushed there setup harder than if not knowing it is clipfree(supposely) and end up blowing equipment.

Regardless to a extent, clipping isn't what burns voicecoils. Even though people will swear it does.

Common Sense> SMDs Clipping Device.

Not only burning up coils will break a driver.

It's a easy way to set the gains, no need to buy a o-scope and know how to use it.

Maybe it's not 100% clip free in some situations, but normally it should.

And if it's used the way it should be used it is not gonna blow things up.

About the red part, you can also say that about a o-scope gain setting

[Beandip 3]

^ so If I use this device on a sundown 1500d and then throw on a 500 watt sub @1 ohm it won't blow? Unlikely a person would run that combo but people do. Not saying there is anything wrong with doing that. Just need to be careful.

Also M5 makes a good point, with different recording levels it's pointless.

[///M5 2,833]

Maybe it's not 100% clip free in some situations, but normally it should.

And if it's used the way it should be used it is not gonna blow things up.

Assuming your amplifier is not a complete piece of crap, you could then just use a DMM as well. Just set it at 80% of its rated power. Not like you'll hear a difference anyways. If your amp is jack crap and can't do 80% then you shouldn't use it.

The last time this came up I tried to think of a time and use for it and couldn't where there wasn't an easier or better way whether for noob or experienced user.

[kraz3one 0]

Whenever it comes out I'm sure I'll pick it up and see how it do against an o-scope.

[kirill007 52]

^ so If I use this device on a sundown 1500d and then throw on a 500 watt sub @1 ohm it won't blow? Unlikely a person would run that combo but people do. Not saying there is anything wrong with doing that. Just need to be careful.

Also M5 makes a good point, with different recording levels it's pointless.

That's not using it how it's supposed to. It's very simple, take a X amount of watts sub and a Y amount of watts amp.(X=Y)

It's just made to make sure you aren't clipping.

That's why you tune it with a 0dB tone or a -3dB test tone. -3dB test tone is better if you have normal music, which means that it doesn't goes up to 0dB .

Maybe it's not 100% clip free in some situations, but normally it should.

And if it's used the way it should be used it is not gonna blow things up.

Assuming your amplifier is not a complete piece of crap, you could then just use a DMM as well. Just set it at 80% of its rated power. Not like you'll hear a difference anyways. If your amp is jack crap and can't do 80% then you shouldn't use it.

The last time this came up I tried to think of a time and use for it and couldn't where there wasn't an easier or better way whether for noob or experienced user.

You can use a dmm and set it at 80% of the rated power but if you are starting out to "compete" on a low budget you could use this.

It's fool-proof and easy as hell, even a 5 year old could do it.

Some amps are jackshit, but people still use them.. You can't control what amp people should buy.

You are right, there are little occasions where this is the best solution, but there are some.