Amp & Battery Questions!

[DarkTinman 9]

Alright guys. Here is the deal. I have been looking at amps and i honestly am looking at the new apx3500's. They seem good but i haven't heard much about them. I checked a lot of forums but most of them just talk about how they hope the new apx's are as good as the ap's. Now when i hear that, i ask myself, what exactly is the difference between the two? Right now i have 2 18 inch DC level 4's with level 5 soft parts and i know that 2 3500's is too much to push them with but i am going to upgrade to some SSA zcons. If anyone has any comments to this that would be awesome! I have looked around and i am not just asking because i am too lazy to try and find the answer myself, plus i would like to hear it from more people i trust, other then some random guy on some random audio forum.

Also, with that setup i will be having those 2 3500's and then a DC 270xp alternator power it. I honestly just don't know how many batteries i need and what size. Everyone talks about getting the biggest ones that i can find but why do i want to get more then i actually need? I might upgrade it more but for now, i want to get the minimum maybe a little bit higher. I don't want to starve these amps and then cause clipping. Any advice? I have gotten some and heard about some but i just wonder what your opinions are on it.

Honestly, thank you for taking the time for even reading this. If you have any ideas please leave a response, i am really looking for a lot of answers! Thank you so much!

[CrazyKenKid 64]

So you are asking about the SAZ3500 and the AP 3500? I have never used either of them but I have two different friends who have both of those amps and they love them both equally! lol! I don't know if you say this link but I thought I would post it up for you

I am currently using 2-SAZ2500's

now you are asking about batteries? you want enough battery power to support your two 3500 right? your current electrical is 2-270xp alts and I am going to go with just a normal starting battery correct. with those two amps they can make up to 7000rms and on 14volts that is about 500amps those amps that those amps can draw at any given time!

people normally go with the biggest battery they can find aka XS3100, Kinetik hc2400, batcap 4000, power surge...,Deka31,...etc because you get the most bang for your buck and performance! for example lets look at XS power if you just check out there batteries on the forum store you will notice each one has a different AH and a different price also each battery can support different amount of power! so why use the biggest well for most ppl if you can fit it why not right! maximize your battery power and don't waste space i guess is what i am getting at.

now a general rule of thumb that someone told me back in the day regarding batteries and AH is this: "if your amps can pull 500amps of current you should have at least 250AH of battery support" so for your case your 2-3500 can pull say 500amps so you would want 2-3 XS3100d or kinetik hc 2400~ make sense.

will you need 3 or 2? not sure try it with 2 and go from there. guessing how many batteries you will need is easy but actually know is another thing! hell try it with 1 and see what your voltage is like see if it remains above 12v on base line of some song you like if it does done lol! but if it doesn't well you know what you got to do then buy another one to be safe!

and just to make sure do the big 3 upgrade, get a nice volt meter and keep an eye on your voltage all the time, and keep the remote gain knob close by as some songs will be a lot louder then other songs!

other then that I hope I answered some of your question if not feel free to repost and if i said anything out of line I am sure some one will chime in on where I am wrong!

[slim2fattycake 85]

just get one deka 9a31 first or a xs d3100 and then with that alt, see what your voltage drops are. If its getting in the 12s then get another battery. With my 270xp and a deka 9a31 running 3000 watts, at idle, I didn't drop be 13.5 volts full tilt.

the difference between the ap and the aqx is quality and minimum ohm for stable use. the ap is minimum of 2 ohm for 3k. the aqx is stable at 1 ohm for 3500 watts but can be wired down to .5 ohm if needed to and the wont go into protect if you have enough electrical to back it up. but i'd just run 1 ohm daily. price difference between the two is a lot but the ap30001d isn't a bad amp either.

[DarkTinman 9]

So you are asking about the SAZ3500 and the AP 3500? I have never used either of them but I have two different friends who have both of those amps and they love them both equally! lol! I don't know if you say this link but I thought I would post it up for youhttp://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/31133-saz-3500d-aq-3500d-side-by-side/I am currently using 2-SAZ2500'snow you are asking about batteries? you want enough battery power to support your two 3500 right? your current electrical is 2-270xp alts and I am going to go with just a normal starting battery correct. with those two amps they can make up to 7000rms and on 14volts that is about 500amps those amps that those amps can draw at any given time!people normally go with the biggest battery they can find aka XS3100, Kinetik hc2400, batcap 4000, power surge...,Deka31,...etc because you get the most bang for your buck and performance! for example lets look at XS power if you just check out there batteries on the forum store you will notice each one has a different AH and a different price also each battery can support different amount of power! so why use the biggest well for most ppl if you can fit it why not right! maximize your battery power and don't waste space i guess is what i am getting at. now a general rule of thumb that someone told me back in the day regarding batteries and AH is this: "if your amps can pull 500amps of current you should have at least 250AH of battery support" so for your case your 2-3500 can pull say 500amps so you would want 2-3 XS3100d or kinetik hc 2400~ make sense. will you need 3 or 2? not sure try it with 2 and go from there. guessing how many batteries you will need is easy but actually know is another thing! hell try it with 1 and see what your voltage is like see if it remains above 12v on base line of some song you like if it does done lol! but if it doesn't well you know what you got to do then buy another one to be safe! and just to make sure do the big 3 upgrade, get a nice volt meter and keep an eye on your voltage all the time, and keep the remote gain knob close by as some songs will be a lot louder then other songs! other then that I hope I answered some of your question if not feel free to repost and if i said anything out of line I am sure some one will chime in on where I am wrong!

Well like i first stated, i am looking at the apx3500. Not the SAZ3500. I only have 1 270xp alternator. I understand the thing about the batteries and i didn't know that was how you could measure it. Because just like you/I said, no need to have too much of a excess of batteries if i don't need them. With the batteries, i noticed that you talked about getting 2-3 XS3100d's but then didn't put a number of 2400's. Is the AH different on these two batteries? Do you recommend a certain type of battery over another one?

just get one deka 9a31 first or a xs d3100 and then with that alt, see what your voltage drops are. If its getting in the 12s then get another battery. With my 270xp and a deka 9a31 running 3000 watts, at idle, I didn't drop be 13.5 volts full tilt.the difference between the ap and the aqx is quality and minimum ohm for stable use. the ap is minimum of 2 ohm for 3k. the aqx is stable at 1 ohm for 3500 watts but can be wired down to .5 ohm if needed to and the wont go into protect if you have enough electrical to back it up. but i'd just run 1 ohm daily. price difference between the two is a lot but the ap30001d isn't a bad amp either.

Well with my charging system on my accord, it stays under 13volts of charge. Someone told me to turn on my lights and that increases my charging volts higher... I think that actually might have been you lol. Do you recommend a battery type? I see you didn't say anything about kentik (sorry if i spelled that wrong lol). Well is there any other difference then that? Are the sizes of the apx the same as the ap? My friend has a AP 3000 amp and it's pretty big. Just wondering where i can mount it in my car. What do you think about changing my charging system to 18 volts? Also, while i have you answering my questions (lol), how would i go about running power? I have seen straight lines coming from the alternator straight back to the back batteries. I don't really know what ways would be best to run all the wiring and the power. Because i have a feeling these amps are going to be more hungry then my kenwood 1800 amp lol!

[slim2fattycake 85]

your accord stays under 13volts at all times? weird. when the alt gets kicked on, it charges at 13.3-13.8v. you don't want to go to 18 volts, its a more money and maintenance than what you would want. for less batteries, get xs d3100s, for the cheaper priced route, get deka 9a31s or ngt extreme group 31 batteries. You got a wide open trunk so you can mount either amp anywhere. I think the ap30001d is actually longer than the aqx but I could be wrong. the aqx is definitely wider. You can run straight off the alt if you want too. I have my power wire from alt to front battery, then front battery to back battery. use 100% copper wires. double up on grounds anywhere you going to use a ground.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

hey sorry about that I completely miss read lol! as for the amp selection go with what phi said and pick what suits your budget!

I didn't mention the kinetik HC2400 only because I know that the SSA store sells the the XS and they are all the rage with car audio ppl lol! but ya the kinetik if you want one I recommend you buy them from amazon I believe for a 2400 it is 280$ shipped bnib. people like the kinetik because they are cheaper then the XS and they have the same or very close AH ratings! and the kinetik are made in china..? in my opinion all car audio batteries are very similar the only thing different is the cost and the buyers view on the brand.

currently in my car i am running 1-220alt, 2-NSB90, 2-SAZ2500 and my voltage is always greater then 12.8 full tilt so I can't complain. but also keep in mind NSB90's are technically for car audio nor are they designed for car audio but they seem to work well enough for me..until they die that is lol. but come this summer I plan to switch them out for something else not sure what though!

as for a brand I recommend... I have used kinetik before and I am not crazy about them, I loved my 4-batcaps 2000's those were amazing batteries for burp!! I am currently using NSB90's they seem to do the trick as for XS that might be the next brand i pick up! but lately I see ppl using the XS/deka/kinetik brands a lot and I don't hear to many complains about them! also when I was choosing my batteries I measure up the space I had available for use and I used that as a guild line to pick out my batteries! turns out I can fit the nsb90/kinetik hc2400/xs3100/deka 31~ any of those big bad batteries as there sizes are similar! or 4-batcap 2000's!

Kinetik HC2400 @ amazon

Wow maybe I will get this instead lol

XS3100d @ SSA Store

So you are asking about the SAZ3500 and the AP 3500? I have never used either of them but I have two different friends who have both of those amps and they love them both equally! lol! I don't know if you say this link but I thought I would post it up for youhttp://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/31133-saz-3500d-aq-3500d-side-by-side/I am currently using 2-SAZ2500'snow you are asking about batteries? you want enough battery power to support your two 3500 right? your current electrical is 2-270xp alts and I am going to go with just a normal starting battery correct. with those two amps they can make up to 7000rms and on 14volts that is about 500amps those amps that those amps can draw at any given time!people normally go with the biggest battery they can find aka XS3100, Kinetik hc2400, batcap 4000, power surge...,Deka31,...etc because you get the most bang for your buck and performance! for example lets look at XS power if you just check out there batteries on the forum store you will notice each one has a different AH and a different price also each battery can support different amount of power! so why use the biggest well for most ppl if you can fit it why not right! maximize your battery power and don't waste space i guess is what i am getting at. now a general rule of thumb that someone told me back in the day regarding batteries and AH is this: "if your amps can pull 500amps of current you should have at least 250AH of battery support" so for your case your 2-3500 can pull say 500amps so you would want 2-3 XS3100d or kinetik hc 2400~ make sense. will you need 3 or 2? not sure try it with 2 and go from there. guessing how many batteries you will need is easy but actually know is another thing! hell try it with 1 and see what your voltage is like see if it remains above 12v on base line of some song you like if it does done lol! but if it doesn't well you know what you got to do then buy another one to be safe! and just to make sure do the big 3 upgrade, get a nice volt meter and keep an eye on your voltage all the time, and keep the remote gain knob close by as some songs will be a lot louder then other songs! other then that I hope I answered some of your question if not feel free to repost and if i said anything out of line I am sure some one will chime in on where I am wrong!

Well like i first stated, i am looking at the apx3500. Not the SAZ3500. I only have 1 270xp alternator. I understand the thing about the batteries and i didn't know that was how you could measure it. Because just like you/I said, no need to have too much of a excess of batteries if i don't need them. With the batteries, i noticed that you talked about getting 2-3 XS3100d's but then didn't put a number of 2400's. Is the AH different on these two batteries? Do you recommend a certain type of battery over another one?

[DarkTinman 9]

That's what i was told. I haven't metered the charging system yet but that is what i was told anyways. And i don't have that DC power alt in yet because it snapped and i still have yet to hear back from them about it. So right now i still have my stock alt. I just was told that the ECU in the accord keeps the charging system low and under 13. I could be wrong but that's just what i was told. Why XS? Why not Kenitik? Well, yeah i know i have a lot of space in my trunk but i want to keep everything as close to the axis as i can. I wanted to try and mount everything including batteries in between the wheel wells. That would help to put the weight better on the car instead of sagging really bad. Well if it's wider that is better then it being long lol. Does the straight power from the alt to the back batteries help? How do you feel about welding wire? I have heard a lot of stuff about that but i also heard it's really thick. But that you can get more power from that then you can get from just one run of wire. Plus, i was told it was cheaper then getting that many runs of wires and stuff...

[slim2fattycake 85]

i have the stock alt in right now. highest charging voltage is 13.8volt, usually sits around 12.8volt. i have heard horror stories with kinetik and have had a kinetik go bad on me so i stay with what has been good to me, deka and xs.

i had the ap30001d between the wheel wells so you should be fine with either amp between there. I just didn't have it right up against the back seat though. You should look up the length of the amp and measure the space you want to put it.

i run 2/0 welding cable. I don't see a voltage drop from the front to back so i assume running the way I have it is good enough.

[DarkTinman 9]

hey sorry about that I completely miss read lol! as for the amp selection go with what phi said and pick what suits your budget!

I didn't mention the kinetik HC2400 only because I know that the SSA store sells the the XS and they are all the rage with car audio ppl lol! but ya the kinetik if you want one I recommend you buy them from amazon I believe for a 2400 it is 280$ shipped bnib. people like the kinetik because they are cheaper then the XS and they have the same or very close AH ratings! and the kinetik are made in china..? in my opinion all car audio batteries are very similar the only thing different is the cost and the buyers view on the brand.

currently in my car i am running 1-220alt, 2-NSB90, 2-SAZ2500 and my voltage is always greater then 12.8 full tilt so I can't complain. but also keep in mind NSB90's are technically for car audio nor are they designed for car audio but they seem to work well enough for me..until they die that is lol. but come this summer I plan to switch them out for something else not sure what though!

as for a brand I recommend... I have used kinetik before and I am not crazy about them, I loved my 4-batcaps 2000's those were amazing batteries for burp!! I am currently using NSB90's they seem to do the trick as for XS that might be the next brand i pick up! but lately I see ppl using the XS/deka/kinetik brands a lot and I don't hear to many complains about them! also when I was choosing my batteries I measure up the space I had available for use and I used that as a guild line to pick out my batteries! turns out I can fit the nsb90/kinetik hc2400/xs3100/deka 31~ any of those big bad batteries as there sizes are similar! or 4-batcap 2000's!

Kinetik HC2400 @ amazon

Wow maybe I will get this instead lol

XS3100d @ SSA Store

Oh okay. Yeah because the price difference is tremendous and honestly i though kentik has been working for me fine. I don't know really much about the technical aspect of batteries but like you said they mostly work the samge given the AH rating on the battery. Plus, that 2400 for only 280. That is what i rather have then spending 400+ on a XS. Even though yes, there is 700 more on the D3100 from xs. I'm one who doesn't want to spend a lot of money but i do want to spend enough and get the proper equipment instead of slacking on a part of it just because of money. And honestly, the reason i don't want XS is because people are always talking about Steve Meade and it gets me annoyed when people talk and recite the different things he has and how those are the only options to get. Like there is no other good amp, battery, wires, subs, etc. Just gets really annoying, and again, mostly because of the pricing lol.

Thank you for the links, i almost didn't see that. I just checked them all out and that 2400 is pretty good price. Do you recommend going through amazon? Should i get a battery bigger then the 2400 from kentik?

[Shogen 325]

Check out THIS thread... Talks about the welding wire and a good place to get it...

Also from the HC2400 to HC3800 (biggest Kinetik), there isn't a huge jump in specs... Money thought is over a $100 increase....

[DarkTinman 9]

Hey and acutally. Why is this XS battery 3400 less then the 3100? I might buy this now. I hope this isn't just some typo or something.

PLEASE BE TRUE!

[Shogen 325]

Hey and acutally. Why is this XS battery 3400 less then the 3100? I might buy this now. I hope this isn't just some typo or something.

PLEASE BE TRUE!

Model number does not signify better battery.... 3400 is I think 65AH .... The 3100 is 117AH I believe...

[DarkTinman 9]

i have the stock alt in right now. highest charging voltage is 13.8volt, usually sits around 12.8volt. i have heard horror stories with kinetik and have had a kinetik go bad on me so i stay with what has been good to me, deka and xs.

i had the ap30001d between the wheel wells so you should be fine with either amp between there. I just didn't have it right up against the back seat though. You should look up the length of the amp and measure the space you want to put it.

i run 2/0 welding cable. I don't see a voltage drop from the front to back so i assume running the way I have it is good enough.

Oh really? Mine has gone to 13.4 before but that's when the car was off and the battery charger was on it. Oh really? Yeah nothing has really happened with mine. What happened with yours? Oh really? Sweet. And actually, just thinking about it. I don't think that's where i am mounting it. Maybe. Either that or putting the sides of the box. I guess we will see where it will look good and where i can have the shortest run of wire to and from. Yeah i will measure for sure. Oh okay sweet. I guess i will take a look at it. What's the difference with 2/0 compared to 1/0? I never really understood that

[Shogen 325]

One wire is thicker than the other?

[DarkTinman 9]

Check out THIS thread... Talks about the welding wire and a good place to get it... :eek5wavey:Also from the HC2400 to HC3800 (biggest Kinetik), there isn't a huge jump in specs... Money thought is over a $100 increase....

Thank you for the link! I am checking it out now!

Oh really? Wow, thanks for letting me know. I didn't even check it out yet but i just assumed... Last time i will assume something. Thank you man.

Hey and acutally. Why is this XS battery 3400 less then the 3100? I might buy this now. I hope this isn't just some typo or something.PLEASE BE TRUE!

Model number does not signify better battery.... 3400 is I think 65AH .... The 3100 is 117AH I believe...

Wow. I just got excited because i assumed again. Learned my lesson twice in about 2 seconds. How come it's like that? I would just believe you would increase AH's as you increase model numbers...

[DarkTinman 9]

One wire is thicker than the other?

Well obviously but you don't have people running 2/0 to their amps. I know that most amps wouldn't accept that big of wire either but i was just wondering if anything other then the resistance and the size of the wire. If there was anything different about the 2/0 when talking about welding wire

[DarkTinman 9]

Double post.

Edited March 7, 2011 by DarkTinman

[slim2fattycake 85]

shave down or reducer.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

hey sorry about that I completely miss read lol! as for the amp selection go with what phi said and pick what suits your budget!

I didn't mention the kinetik HC2400 only because I know that the SSA store sells the the XS and they are all the rage with car audio ppl lol! but ya the kinetik if you want one I recommend you buy them from amazon I believe for a 2400 it is 280$ shipped bnib. people like the kinetik because they are cheaper then the XS and they have the same or very close AH ratings! and the kinetik are made in china..? in my opinion all car audio batteries are very similar the only thing different is the cost and the buyers view on the brand.

currently in my car i am running 1-220alt, 2-NSB90, 2-SAZ2500 and my voltage is always greater then 12.8 full tilt so I can't complain. but also keep in mind NSB90's are technically for car audio nor are they designed for car audio but they seem to work well enough for me..until they die that is lol. but come this summer I plan to switch them out for something else not sure what though!

as for a brand I recommend... I have used kinetik before and I am not crazy about them, I loved my 4-batcaps 2000's those were amazing batteries for burp!! I am currently using NSB90's they seem to do the trick as for XS that might be the next brand i pick up! but lately I see ppl using the XS/deka/kinetik brands a lot and I don't hear to many complains about them! also when I was choosing my batteries I measure up the space I had available for use and I used that as a guild line to pick out my batteries! turns out I can fit the nsb90/kinetik hc2400/xs3100/deka 31~ any of those big bad batteries as there sizes are similar! or 4-batcap 2000's!

Kinetik HC2400 @ amazon

Wow maybe I will get this instead lol

XS3100d @ SSA Store

Oh okay. Yeah because the price difference is tremendous and honestly i though kentik has been working for me fine. I don't know really much about the technical aspect of batteries but like you said they mostly work the samge given the AH rating on the battery. Plus, that 2400 for only 280. That is what i rather have then spending 400+ on a XS. Even though yes, there is 700 more on the D3100 from xs. I'm one who doesn't want to spend a lot of money but i do want to spend enough and get the proper equipment instead of slacking on a part of it just because of money. And honestly, the reason i don't want XS is because people are always talking about Steve Meade and it gets me annoyed when people talk and recite the different things he has and how those are the only options to get. Like there is no other good amp, battery, wires, subs, etc. Just gets really annoying, and again, mostly because of the pricing lol.

Thank you for the links, i almost didn't see that. I just checked them all out and that 2400 is pretty good price. Do you recommend going through amazon? Should i get a battery bigger then the 2400 from kentik?

ya i forgot about steve meade's lol! that guy is nuts and money seems to no object to him! lucky man! but ya i see a lot of ppl who love them so i don't know! they are the first brand i tend to think of when someone says batteries. plus i like the blue color and design of the batteries lol just not the price!

do i recommend buying on amazon.. yes i do i do it all the time! and i know of other ppl who do buy batteries off amazon!

[DarkTinman 9]

shave down or reducer.

What does that mean? You can fuse welding wire too right? I just never have seen it before

[CrazyKenKid 64]

wire is wire copper is copper of course you can fuse it lol! why wouldn't you be able to?

[DarkTinman 9]

ya i forgot about steve meade's lol! that guy is nuts and money seems to no object to him! lucky man! but ya i see a lot of ppl who love them so i don't know! they are the first brand i tend to think of when someone says batteries. plus i like the blue color and design of the batteries lol just not the price!

do i recommend buying on amazon.. yes i do i do it all the time! and i know of other ppl who do buy batteries off amazon!

Yeah man i know. I am not trying to bad mouth the guy because he has done a lot to raise car audio awareness but i have heard he is a jerk in real life. Even though yesterday i did talk to someone who said he met him and didn't really have anything bad to say about him. I guess it just depends on how you met him which is the same with anyone. Yeah, he gets lots of money from SMD and from Youtube.

Oh really? Sweet.

[DarkTinman 9]

wire is wire copper is copper of course you can fuse it lol! why wouldn't you be able to?

I don't know! I just never have seen it or worked with it before! I don't even know how i would get it to the back

[CrazyKenKid 64]

so you are saying you never seen anyone use welding wire? and what do you mean you don't know how to get it there? have you considered to drill a hole and use a grommet? you can pass it though the under body of the car or under the rug of your car?

[DarkTinman 9]

so you are saying you never seen anyone use welding wire? and what do you mean you don't know how to get it there? have you considered to drill a hole and use a grommet? you can pass it though the under body of the car or under the rug of your car?

Yeah that's exactly what i am saying. I have never seen it installed or being installed. I don't know how flexible it is and i have never seen the actual dimiater of the wire. Well i am going through a grommet in my firewall but i don't know if i can fit a 2/0 wire through it. I don't have any room to really run it through the carpet. I have my 1/0 wire going under my trim pieces. Yeah i know i could run it under my car but i don't want it to get messed up if something while i am driving rubs the isolation off or something like that. I just don't want my wire to get ruined is what i mean.