jl w7 vs fi btl

[ExclusiveRA 0]

Which would hit harder the 15 w7 or 15 btl?

[Adrian_D 520]

Both will hit harder.... Without details there is no possible answer.

Try harder when formulating the question. Application details ? You want music or pure SPL ? Power available ? Space available ? Listening tastes ?

The largest cone size for the W7 is 13.5 inches...

[smashedz28 110]

i thought the biggest w7 was a 13.5", could be wrong. I cant see a W7 hanging with a BTL. W7's are nice but BTL all the way for me.

Take a look through the Noob guidelines would you? this vs that threads are usually pointless without more information.

[MalibuOn22s 37]

Which would hit harder the 15 w7 or 15 btl?

lol

[ExclusiveRA 0]

igt my badddddddddddddddddddd. i jst wanna know which one would be louder at max power. for spl.

[ssh 924]

Your not going to get any help if you ask broad questions like that, I promise you.

Too many other variables come into play as to which will be louder.

Enclosure, volume, tuning, installation, etc.

W7s are nice drivers, there is no doubt about it. But they also come at a hefty price. Many think (I included) can get drivers that perform just as well to our standards for a fair amount less.

Why don't you give us some background as to what vehicle your looking to add a sub stage to.

What have you listened to before? What is loud to you?

I'm assuming your going for SPL, in a daily driver, not competing?

Personally I'd just get the btl and call it a day.

[Ohjay 116]

BTL

[Bob345 39]

BTL

[jcarter1885 995]

I didnt know subs could hit, I never got hit with either one so I would be of no help

[Ohjay 116]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VX4D_9GMBg&feature=player_detailpage

[BigCProductions99 21]

BEE TEE ELL.

noob.

[Mac N Cheese 90]

Electrical upgrades? Amp? budget? Wont give you my suggestion until you answer those.

[Duran 387]

He said the acronym, "SPL", as well as the phrase, "max power", it's pretty obvious the BTL will handle him.

[Dictator1992 6]

..w7 overpriced hype definetly got his eye in the mainstream market!

[SMpaintball78 58]

mtx 9500! lol id probably go with the fi btl. i had the 18" version of the btl and WOW it flexxed my dash on 1500 watts. plus the jl is WAYYYYYYYY over priced. kinda like the solo x. Edited March 4, 2011 by Lantz

[ibanender 2]

Yeah, BTL is definitely the winner there. W7's when attempted to be used in "loud" applications do this thing called "breaking". That is of course after it's done not being loud.

[Sencheezy 689]

BTL will slap,hit,crunch,beat,bang,bump,thump,boom harder/louder then the W7 in a equally fixed environment. I think...

[Impious 1,476]

..w7 overpriced hype definetly got his eye in the mainstream market!

It's not overpriced. Economically if it were overpriced, it wouldn't sell. That's basic. But they do sell, and have for almost 10 years at their current price level. They are expensive, yes. But expensive and overpriced are not the same thing. Just because something is expensive, does not mean it's overpriced.

And it's not "hype". They are very well performing drivers, and have been verified to be such for almost a decade.

We could argue price vs performance and alternative options, but that's a separate matter.

However it would probably not be the best subwoofer for this particular application. Which is also not related to it being either overpriced or "hype"

[ibanender 2]

..w7 overpriced hype definetly got his eye in the mainstream market!

It's not overpriced. Economically if it were overpriced, it wouldn't sell. That's basic. But they do sell, and have for almost 10 years at their current price level. They are expensive, yes. But expensive and overpriced are not the same thing. Just because something is expensive, does not mean it's overpriced.

And it's not "hype". They are very well performing drivers, and have been verified to be such for almost a decade.

We could argue price vs performance and alternative options, but that's a separate matter.

However it would probably not be the best subwoofer for this particular application. Which is also not related to it being either overpriced or "hype"

Consumers dictate cost based on perception of value. JL had excellent marketing back in the day which has left name recognition now. The uninformed consumer equates big with good. Big motor, good, big surround, good, deep sub, good. Combine that with name recognition and people will pay whatever you want for them. JL prided themselves with 7 years of design that was ahead of it's time, and when it was released it was behind everybody else. That hasn't changed AT ALL over the last 10 years they've been sold. So why will people continue to buy it? The same reason Apple will continue to sell a POS for twice as much as a comparable product that works better, marketing and perception of value.

They are overpriced for those who see the real value in them, not the status symbol in them. When I worked for a JL dealer and somebody came in and refused to have anything but JL and wanted a W7, we'd try to sell them a W6v2 because they were just as loud and sounded better. We'd only sell a W7 if they told us they were walking out of there with a W7.

[Impious 1,476]

..w7 overpriced hype definetly got his eye in the mainstream market!

It's not overpriced. Economically if it were overpriced, it wouldn't sell. That's basic. But they do sell, and have for almost 10 years at their current price level. They are expensive, yes. But expensive and overpriced are not the same thing. Just because something is expensive, does not mean it's overpriced.

And it's not "hype". They are very well performing drivers, and have been verified to be such for almost a decade.

We could argue price vs performance and alternative options, but that's a separate matter.

However it would probably not be the best subwoofer for this particular application. Which is also not related to it being either overpriced or "hype"

Consumers dictate cost based on perception of value. JL had excellent marketing back in the day which has left name recognition now. The uninformed consumer equates big with good. Big motor, good, big surround, good, deep sub, good. Combine that with name recognition and people will pay whatever you want for them. JL prided themselves with 7 years of design that was ahead of it's time, and when it was released it was behind everybody else. That hasn't changed AT ALL over the last 10 years they've been sold. So why will people continue to buy it? The same reason Apple will continue to sell a POS for twice as much as a comparable product that works better, marketing and perception of value.

They are overpriced for those who see the real value in them, not the status symbol in them. When I worked for a JL dealer and somebody came in and refused to have anything but JL and wanted a W7, we'd try to sell them a W6v2 because they were just as loud and sounded better. We'd only sell a W7 if they told us they were walking out of there with a W7.

I'm not wanting to start this with you because it will turn into a 3 page discussion in which you fail at supporting your argument in any meaningful way and spend most of the time dodging the actual crux of the argument. I've learned my lesson there.

My prior comment stands.

Though I find your comment funny that they were ahead of the curve for 7 years when they were building essentially off-the-shelf drivers (which is why SPL was able to copy the original W6 to a tee, using cheaper lower quality parts was their downfall), but when they release one of the first high displacement low distortion drivers on the mainstream market they were behind everybody else.

[ibanender 2]

I'm not wanting to start this with you because it will turn into a 3 page discussion in which you fail at supporting your argument in any meaningful way and spend most of the time dodging the actual crux of the argument. I've learned my lesson there.

I see you also have the same problem with reading comprehension. It happens, it's ok.

Though I find your comment funny that they were ahead of the curve for 7 years when they were building essentially off-the-shelf drivers (which is why SPL was able to copy the original W6 to a tee, using cheaper lower quality parts was their downfall), but when they release one of the first high displacement low distortion drivers on the mainstream market they were behind everybody else.

They weren't ahead for 7 years, they worked on it for 7 years before they released it. At time of release, they were behind. Of course, you would have known that had you actually read what I typed, because that is exactly what I typed. There were other high displacement drivers out there for 3 years before the W7 came out, so they weren't even "one of the first".

[Impious 1,476]

There were other high displacement drivers out there for 3 years before the W7 came out, so they weren't even "one of the first".

Reading comprehension. I said high displacement low distortion drivers on the mainstream market.

Either way, you are sidetracking the conversation, as usual. Your first sentence proves my point. Consumers dictate appropriate pricing for the market. JL can offer the driver for sale at whatever price they want. If the W7 were overpriced, it wouldn't sell. That simple. You didn't actually argue against this point, you simply tried to make up reasons of why it is so. You can argue why it sells all day long, but that's irrelevant. It's another one of your "I can't support my argument so I'm going to take the conversation in the direction I want it to go" tactics. The fact is, it does sell. Consumers find value in the W7 at it's available pricing. That is what's relevant. If it were overpriced, it wouldn't have sold much less been on the market at it's current price point for almost a decade. I find it very hard to believe that the only people purchasing this driver for a decade are uninformed marketing driven mindless drones. Are there some? Sure. But is that the entire customer base? No. Are there valid reasons for paying extra "for a name"? Yes. Is the W7 going to be for everyone? No. Is it expensive? Yes. But that doesn't mean it's overpriced. If it were overpriced, if consumers didn't see the value in the product at it's pricing level, it wouldn't have sold much less been sustainable in the market for almost a decade. That simple. You can't argue this point. You can argue why it sells (as you tried to do), you can argue it's price vs performance compared to competitors......but those are side arguments. The simple point is, consumers wouldn't buy it if they felt it were overpriced. JL priced it appropriately for the market. If you are not a buyer at it's pricing level, that's fine. You can have valid personal reasons for not purchasing a W7. Not everyone is going to see the value in the W7 at that pricing. And that is fine. But that does not make it overpriced.

Second; I never said the W7 was the best or only driver in the market. I simply said it's not hype. They have been verified for a decade now to be well performing drivers. That simple. You can't argue this point. They are objectively good drivers. I did say "one of the first", which they were. There were not many drivers in the mainstream market that offered both that level of displacement and low distortion/linear BL. But this is again a side argument to the main point, so I don't want to linger on it (though I'm sure this is what you will focus on, rather than the main point, in an effort to make yourself feel "right"). The main point is that the W7 is an objectively well performing driver.

So, you can either respond with something relevant to the conversation (which doesn't seem to fit your M.O.), or don't bother responding at all.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Stupid people make life difficult.

[ibanender 2]

There were other high displacement drivers out there for 3 years before the W7 came out, so they weren't even "one of the first".

Reading comprehension. I said high displacement low distortion drivers on the mainstream market.

Either way, you are sidetracking the conversation, as usual. Your first sentence proves my point. Consumers dictate appropriate pricing for the market. JL can offer the driver for sale at whatever price they want. If the W7 were overpriced, it wouldn't sell. That simple. You didn't actually argue against this point, you simply tried to make up reasons of why it is so. You can argue why it sells all day long, but that's irrelevant. It's another one of your "I can't support my argument so I'm going to take the conversation in the direction I want it to go" tactics. The fact is, it does sell. Consumers find value in the W7 at it's available pricing. That is what's relevant. If it were overpriced, it wouldn't have sold much less been on the market at it's current price point for almost a decade. I find it very hard to believe that the only people purchasing this driver for a decade are uninformed marketing driven mindless drones. Are there some? Sure. But is that the entire customer base? No. Are there valid reasons for paying extra "for a name"? Yes. Is the W7 going to be for everyone? No. Is it expensive? Yes. But that doesn't mean it's overpriced. If it were overpriced, if consumers didn't see the value in the product at it's pricing level, it wouldn't have sold much less been sustainable in the market for almost a decade. That simple. You can't argue this point. You can argue why it sells (as you tried to do), you can argue it's price vs performance compared to competitors......but those are side arguments. The simple point is, consumers wouldn't buy it if they felt it were overpriced. JL priced it appropriately for the market. If you are not a buyer at it's pricing level, that's fine. You can have valid personal reasons for not purchasing a W7. Not everyone is going to see the value in the W7 at that pricing. And that is fine. But that does not make it overpriced.

Second; I never said the W7 was the best or only driver in the market. I simply said it's not hype. They have been verified for a decade now to be well performing drivers. That simple. You can't argue this point. They are objectively good drivers. I did say "one of the first", which they were. There were not many drivers in the mainstream market that offered both that level of displacement and low distortion/linear BL. But this is again a side argument to the main point, so I don't want to linger on it (though I'm sure this is what you will focus on, rather than the main point, in an effort to make yourself feel "right"). The main point is that the W7 is an objectively well performing driver.

So, you can either respond with something relevant to the conversation (which doesn't seem to fit your M.O.), or don't bother responding at all.

I read the first line and didn't bother reading the rest because I had a thought. You know everything, everybody else is wrong, you're right, why waste time trying to educate or at the very least make you think? In regards do the first sentence, how are you measuring distortion? 10% distortion from a sub is not only common, but accepted as "clean" by the human ear. Again, how are YOU measuring distortion? Not on paper, not a lab test, YOU in a car, measuring it.

[Impious 1,476]

You know everything, everybody else is wrong, you're right,

Glad we agree

In regards do the first sentence, how are you measuring distortion? 10% distortion from a sub is not only common, but accepted as "clean" by the human ear. Again, how are YOU measuring distortion? Not on paper, not a lab test, YOU in a car, measuring it.

Measuring a W7 in my car is irrelevant. I don't need to measure it in my car unless I want to know how it responds in my particular vehicle in that particular enclosure on my power with my system settings. None of this defines the objective qualities of the W7 itself. "On paper in a lab" is the only meaningful way to objectively measure and evaluate a driver. I know you understand this (or atleast I think you do, I suppose I could be wrong). Despite our disagreements, I don't take you for a dummy. I'm less than impressed by your debating skills, but I know you're not stupid. This however is another one of your sidetracking techniques because you can't directly rebut my comments. You aren't going to be able to find anything indicating the W7 is an objectively poor driver, because it's not. It's a well designed driver. It's performance attributes, pricing or perceived value might not fit your, or someone else's, personal performance preference or goals. But that doesn't make the W7 a bad driver, just not the driver for every situation.

With that, I'm done with this conversation. I've clearly explained my points, and the conversation will quickly either head no where or become circular. Both of which are a waste of time.