Single Cabinet and Dual RL-p 15's for Home Theater

[60ndown 0]

man my typing sucks

[mfishmike 0]

Good point.....I've got to leave for a few hours so I'll pump in some good pink noise and let it rip (moderately, of course), till I get back in this afternoon. I think I'll be happy with the weight I have right now, by the way they sound. I can go to 1200 grams, but I don't want that much weight to be throwing back and forth. My little plant sitting on the top still hasn't moved because I'm using opposing passive radiators. My receiver doesn't have or need bass boost as it is a very high current receiver/amp, so I'm cool there.....

Mike

[60ndown 0]

":I had the subwoofer maxed out in three settings in the Rotel 1065 for the Titanics MKIIIs. I dropped 2 of the sub level adjustments to +2 db instead of having them set to max. "

i miss understood this ^ thought you had some kinda bass boost?????

i always set up everything with gfains set flat?

Edited December 3, 2005 by 60ndown

[60ndown 0]

gfains! lol

[mfishmike 0]

The results are finally in!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dancingsmilie:

They are fantastic, even with the QSC 1450 450 wpc amp! It's not working as hard with these 15's as it did with the two 12" Titanic MK III's! There is virtually no amp clipping at very high levels! At this point, I have no intentions of upgrading to a more powerful amp!

I finished them up last night and I installed four of the Dayton

#295-194 15" passive radiators and carefully added weight totaling 1100 grams each, including the mms of the prs. The maximum recommended weight for this pr is 1200 grams. I had about 4 lbs of polyfil inside the cabinet to make it think it was larger than it really is, and I found that the prs weren't in sync because of the mass of the polyfil and the sound wasn't quite right. After removing all of the polyfil, things changed drastically! The cabinet is lined with 2 1/5" eggcrate foam to reduce the standing waves. These drivers are also designed to work with a smaller cabinet.

The cabinet is about 5.0 cu ft i.d including displacements of the drivers and bracing. It has a 1 1/4" total wall thickness with a 2" bottom. The finished weight is 235 lbs without an amp installed. I keep the amp in the equipment rack behind the glass to reduce the fan noise and bi amp the drivers with L & R channels.

Now for the results.......... :musik05:

For those older audio enthusiasts, you will recognize Frederick Fennell's Cleveland Symphonic Winds and Michael Murray's Saint-Saens Symphony # 3 "Organ" with Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. The kettle drums sounded to be in the living room along with the rest of the members of the orchestra. The marches were like you were there! When the kettle drums were struck, I was startled! The organ music was superb with Michael Murray's performance!

I went on to play Eric Clapton's Crossroads album done in Fort Worth last year and a performance by Fleetwood Mac and Sheryl Crow and I was equally impressed with everything I heard. I listened to the SACDs and DVD's at both high and low levels and no distortion was noticed at all. It was very a very, very, detailed bass, and was clean, and not boomy or boxey sounding. The performance with Buddy Guy, BB King, Eric Clapton, and Jimmy Vaughn all playing together was as stunning as could be imagined with the richness and the quality of the deep clean bass. I put in Joe Satriani Live in San Francisco two nights later and cranked it up. The bass player had two stacks of dual quad drivers (16 total drivers) for his speaker system. My system reproduced the music like you were directly in front of the stage. What else can I say about these drivers!

I show a Devcon two part epoxy product to secure the washers, and I want to add that I used one complete two part package for each passive radiator. Any good epoxy will work. I put a good bed of epoxy on the passive radiator and started stacking the 16, 3/4" washers. After I laid the first washer down, I slipped the 2" EMT sleeve over it and finished adding washers. I coated the top of each washer as I added them so nothing will be coming loose to annoy you later. As the epoxy oozed out the sides of the washers, that filled the gap to the emt sleeve and secured it as well. The 17th or last washer is a 1/4" fender washer which held the remaining washers secure while the epoxy cured, and also helped align them on the PR.

I have spent a lot of time taking these photos and uploading them to a server to help any of you wishing to have such an extraordinary sounding subwoofer for your home theater or audio system. I have a total of 4 rebuilds on this subwoofer project and feel quite confident that it will be my last. Please feel free to email me if you have any questions, or if you are in the Clear Lake Texas area, stop by for some coffee and an audition of this very musical system.

I've noticed that if you aren't a member, or are not logged in, that you can't see the signatures at the bottom of each post where I have my link posted. For those of you that are interested, here is the link to the photos and the construction details:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b148/mfishmike/

Thanks,

Mike Cason

[email protected]

Edited December 5, 2005 by mfishmike

[SoundSplinter 1]

Again, very happy to hear that you're happy!

I just finished doing a bunch of image processing today in order to update my Premium Series webpage, so hopefully that section of the site will be up-to-date by early next week. After that's done, I'm thinking or revamping my Customer Installs section into a general Testimonials section, and I would love to include your setup in there if you'd be so kind to allow it. I still have a few other things to take care of first (and also have a few other customers who sent in their pic's to be included), but I figured I'd just let ya know now since you've taken a lot of time to explain your process and opinion, and I figure it would be a nice addition to the main website

[mfishmike 0]

Mike,

I'm one step ahead of you. Check your email at SS. I've already suggested that you and Kyle use what ever you guys want!

We're all here to make things happen, and if I can be of further assistance, please let me know. Are you coming by in the morning for coffee?

Sincerely,

Mike Cason

[mfishmike 0]

Mike,

I have a legal question for you?

What is the most decibiles allowed out of one subwoofer in the State of Texas?

I just bought another QSC 1450 amp off of EBAY, and will be running parallel bridged to mono amps to those dual RL-Ps at 1400 watts each.......I'll daisy chain the terminal strips on the inputs...2800 watts to one sub....Sounds kinda scarry hugh?

I won't be concerned about the fan noise from the amps anymore as I probably won't be able to hear anything after next weekend! The home theater already sets off the shatter switches to my home alarm system just as it is!

I won't get it until next Friday, so I'll post some results Saturday the 17th.

Mike

Edited December 9, 2005 by mfishmike

[60ndown 0]

2800 wrms in yer tv????...................nice.

[bigger_george 2]

Wow, very impressive setup. That's some insane power for home; wonder how long it'll take to make you deaf I would love a setup like that for home, but I'm neither technical nor talented enough to set it up (plus lack of time). Most of my setup(so far) has been bought and haven't finished center or rear channel speakers yet.

[SoundSplinter 1]

> What is the most decibiles allowed out of one subwoofer in the State of Texas?

Haha, I don't have a clue! I'd imagine it's the point at which the neighbors call the cops

As for the amount of power you're plannin' on driving to those RL-p's, be careful!

[mfishmike 0]

Mike,

Haha, I don't have a clue! I'd imagine it's the point at which the neighbors call the cops

Fortunantly I don't have neighbors that close. I built my new home wrapped with James Hardie cement siding, so it absords a lot of the sound too!

As for the amount of power you're plannin' on driving to those RL-p's, be careful!

I don't plan on using that much power. I'll keep the gain at about 1/2 power or so and I'll back off on my receiver sub output adjustments to -0- (no plus or minus db's). I'm just looking for that deep clean bass without stretching the amp's capabilities to the point of clipping. I'm adding another circuit to my home theater location today which will give me two dedicated 20 amp circuits for the HT system. I'll have 4 amplifiers total, plus all the other gear.

George,

It took ten years and a lot of studying and asking questions and rebuilds to get it right. "You can eat an elephant one bite at a time, and eventually get it consumed." The same applies to this project. Thank for the compliments...

Edited December 10, 2005 by mfishmike

[Kyle Richardson 0]

Mike is officially labeled crazy!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

thats wild, would love to hear it

[mfishmike 0]

Now Fed Ex won't deliver my 2nd amp till monday the 19th. I won't have the results till Tuesday.....I hope.....but it is still a beast with just one!!!!!!!!

I'll post the results when they are both hooked up!!

Edited December 17, 2005 by mfishmike

[mfishmike 0]

Mike,

It's here, hooked up and is some kind of powerful!

After hooking up the second QSC RMX 1450 bridged/mono to 1400 watts @ 4ohms (one amplifier per driver), I was very cautious with the controls. I set all of the Rotel's internal subwoofer settings to a final +2 db setting.

I started out again with Michael Murray's organ performance on Telarc's SACD at high volumes, and gradually increased the amp's gains to about 90% without hearing or seeing any indication of straining or overdriving the RL-P 15" drivers and the two amps never clipped. I have all of the QSC's filters turned off for home theater because I want to hear those low end rumbles and effects.

My last music DVD was Clapton's Crossroads and again, the gains were not moved. I have a test dvd with a short piece from The Haunting. I had pictures falling down on the shelves, doors rattling, pictures on the other side of the house sounded like teeth chattering as they were bouncing against the walls. I had to turn the gains down on that one! It was an entirely awesome experience! I have interior hollow 6 panel doors throughout the house, and you can put each hand on both sides of the door, and you can feel them swell from the bass. I need to leave the closet doors in the living room and hallways cracked open to keep them from rattling in the strike plates. The low frequency shakes them using the space inside the closet spaces.

For the very serious and "responsible" home theater or music buff, I would recommend this type of subwoofer. I routinely visit the high end and retail audio stores and listen to the little cubes, some with cute little blue lites and remotes. They are small and don't take up much room, but they sound just like little cubes! Some are sealed, some are flared ported, and some are slot loaded ports, but they all still sound like boxey, thin walled cubed subwoofers. Perfect for apartment homes and condos, but not for a home with the listning area that can support larger systems. I have listened to B & W, Vandersteen, Legacy, Klipsch, Velodyne, and many others, and I like mine better, and not just because I built it. Legacy was the closest contender and they do indeed have a great product.

Some speaker manufacturers use passive radiators to make the speaker look better and like there are more woofers. The average retail stuff doesn't sound any better with the small cheap passive radiators. They can be found in the "white van speakers" too, but are junk. These four passive radiators mass loaded to 1100 grams are an awsome compliment to the Sound Splinter drivers, and they do their job well.

When I say "responsible", I mean if you are going to listen to rap or audio that is geared just to making a ton of continuous bass, you can't drive these RLP's at full 1400 watts without burning up everything. You need to set those gains to what you are going to listen to for the evening. The extra power really added more headroom for those richer bass notes, percussion, and home theater effects.

You could probably get the same results with dual subwoofer plate amps mounted on the back of the sub, but getting to the controls would be difficult to adjust every time you changed uses of your system, ie movies or music tracks. My amps are in the equipment rack, so when I change a CD or DVD, I can adjust accordingly.

Thanks again Mike,

Mike Cason

[60ndown 0]

Mike,

It's here, hooked up and is some kind of powerful! 

After hooking up the second QSC RMX 1450 bridged/mono to 1400 watts @ 4ohms (one amplifier per driver), I was very cautious with the controls.  I set all of the Rotel's internal subwoofer settings to a final +2 db setting.

I started out again with Michael Murray's organ performance on Telarc's SACD at high volumes, and gradually increased the amp's gains to about 90% without hearing or seeing any indication of straining or overdriving the RL-P 15" drivers and the two amps never clipped.  I have all of the QSC's filters turned off for home theater because I want to hear those low end rumbles and effects. 

My last music DVD was Clapton's Crossroads and again, the gains were not moved.  I have a test dvd with a short piece from The Haunting.  I had pictures falling down on the shelves, doors rattling, pictures on the other side of the house sounded like teeth chattering as they were bouncing against the walls.  I had to turn the gains down on that one!  It was an entirely awesome experience!  I have interior hollow 6 panel doors throughout the house, and you can put each hand on both sides of the door, and you can feel them swell from the bass.  I need to leave the closet doors in the living room and hallways cracked open to keep them from rattling in the strike plates.  The low frequency shakes them using the space inside the closet spaces.

For the very serious and "responsible" home theater or music buff, I would recommend this type of subwoofer.  I routinely visit the high end and retail audio stores and listen to the little cubes, some with cute little blue lites and remotes.  They are small and don't take up much room, but they sound just like little cubes!  Some are sealed, some are flared ported, and some are slot loaded ports, but they all still sound like boxey, thin walled cubed subwoofers.  Perfect for apartment homes and condos, but not for a home with the listning area that can support larger systems.  I have listened to B & W, Vandersteen, Legacy, Klipsch, Velodyne, and many others, and I like mine better, and not just because I built it.  Legacy was the closest contender and they do indeed have a great product.

Some speaker manufacturers use passive radiators to make the speaker look better and like there are more woofers.  The average retail stuff doesn't sound any better with the small cheap passive radiators.  They can be found in the "white van speakers" too, but are junk.  These four passive radiators mass loaded to 1100 grams are an awsome compliment to the Sound Splinter drivers, and they do their job well.

When I say "responsible", I mean if you are going to listen to rap or audio that is geared just to making a ton of continuous bass, you can't drive these RLP's at full 1400 watts without burning up everything.  You need to set those gains to what you are going to listen to for the evening.  The extra power really added more headroom for those richer bass notes, percussion, and home theater effects.

You could probably get the same results with dual subwoofer plate amps mounted on the back of the sub, but getting to the controls would be difficult to adjust every time you changed uses of your system, ie movies or music tracks.  My amps are in the equipment rack, so when I change a CD or DVD, I can adjust accordingly.

Thanks again Mike,

Mike Cason

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i got my new components in the car this a.m. its good when the latest upgrade works im with you on that, id like to watch 'little nicky' on your h.t.rig..or anything for that matter i still encorage you to build a 'housewrecker' one day when you have a few hours to kill.steve deckert who desighned it is a very very clever man, the housewrecker is a very very serious sub, desighned to fill very large spaces with very serious bass.

it doesnt sound like you 'need' one but i would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between the two?

www.decware.com

[mfishmike 0]

i got my new components in the car this a.m. its good when the latest upgrade works im with you on that, id like to watch 'little nicky' on your h.t.rig..or anything for that matter i still encorage you to build a 'housewrecker' one day when you have a few hours to kill.steve deckert who desighned it is a very very clever man, the housewrecker is a very very serious sub, desighned to fill very large spaces with very serious bass.

it doesnt sound like you 'need' one but i would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between the two?

www.decware.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've studied the isobarik designs, and plan on staying with what I'm familiar with for the moment. I just might want to try something different later though. Send me a private email with photos of what you have and how you've configured yours as the plans from Decaware have different configurations. [email protected]

Edited December 19, 2005 by mfishmike

[60ndown 0]

i got my new components in the car this a.m. its good when the latest upgrade works im with you on that, id like to watch 'little nicky' on your h.t.rig..or anything for that matter i still encorage you to build a 'housewrecker' one day when you have a few hours to kill.steve deckert who desighned it is a very very clever man, the housewrecker is a very very serious sub, desighned to fill very large spaces with very serious bass.

it doesnt sound like you 'need' one but i would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between the two?

www.decware.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've studied the isobarik designs, and plan on staying with what I'm familiar with for the moment. I just might want to try something different later though. Send me a private email with photos of what you have and how you've configured yours as the plans from Decaware have different configurations. [email protected]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

mine is just an unfinished mdf box, for 2x15s, both magnets in the centre chamber, two older jbl subwofers. the thing makes way more bass and way better sq than it has a right to, an im useing an old jvc solid state amp (50wpc?) via a paradigm x20 x over.god knows what it could do with 2 x rl-p 15s and 2400 wrms

[SoundSplinter 1]

Thrilled to hear of your satisfaction Mike! After the new year rolls around I'll definitely be adding a page to display your setup in our Customer Install's section (as well as one or two others that I've been meaning to get up there as well). Keep on rockin' and happy holidays!

[mfishmike 0]

I would be honored to have my project posted on your main website. :dancingsmilie:

I watched a portion of a submarine movie last evening, and the audio effects were stunning! This subwoofer has a deep whole very realistic sound, not like a box thumped with a rubber mallet! I've decided never to be in a submarine when there might be depth charges going off! What those guys must have endured!

Mike, have a great year in '06 and keep up the good work! I think you will do well.

You've set a new standard in service, reliability, and honesty....referring to prompt emails, shipping when promised, and the disclosure of the Supreme series setback......

Mike Cason

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

great review

[johnyb 0]

Perfect timing. I just found this site and was pointed to the RLp 15's.

I am thinking about doing a pushpull design with a pair of the 15's.

I would like to add some passive radiators to that too, is that a good idea on a push/pull cabinet?

If yes, Is there a formula or general rule you go by in deciding how many passive drivers you go with?

Thanks for your help.

If I should start my own thread just let me know.

Matt

[Eldorado 0]

Isobaric ?

If thats what you are thinking then dont even waste your money.

[mfishmike 0]

Perfect timing. I just found this site and was pointed to the RLp 15's.

I am thinking about doing a pushpull design with a pair of the 15's.

I would like to add some passive radiators to that too, is that a good idea on a push/pull cabinet?

Yes, it is a do-able project providing you have had some prior speaking building experience as the math and formulas will eat you alive.

Edited January 15, 2006 by mfishmike