Single Cabinet and Dual RL-p 15's for Home Theater

[mfishmike 0]

Here is the link to the finished project and associated construction photos and descriptions of the materials used. Follow the rest of the posts in this thread to see how I blew out the existing passive radiators, then I had to rebuild them again. I am driving this beast with two amplifiers now and have made posts regarding the final outstanding results in this thread.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b148/mfishmike/

I'm rebuilding my home theater subwoofer for the 3rd time and am anxious for the delivery of the 2-Premium 15" drivers. I'll be installing them in a 1 1/4" walled cabinet with 4-1500 gram 15" passive radiators. I've been using two 12" Titanic MKIII's, but am not getting the performance in this type of configuration that I really want.

The passive radiators eliminated the mid-bass boom and really smoothed out the bass with the Titanics, but the over all performance was not what I was hoping for. This is an expensive way to build a speaker, but you get what you pay for! I'll have two active and 4 passive drivers in a single cabinet.

I'll keep the group posted with the results and am open to emails. I see more posts in this forum relating to auto installations, so for those of you that are interested in the home theater use of Mike's Sound Splinter Premium drivers, watch my posts as I'll have them finished by the end of the weekend. Attached is the photo with the Titanics before I disassembled the cabinet last weekend. I hope to be ready for the drivers when they get here Thursday.

Mike Cason

Edited December 21, 2005 by mfishmike

[psycho72 1]

[///M5 2,833]

Uhh, that plant is not going to sit long on that box once you put in the Rl-p's....at least not if I came over. Can't wait to see the finished result. What are you using for amps and crossovers?

[mfishmike 0]

Uhh, that plant is not going to sit long on that box once you put in the Rl-p's....at least not if I came over.

Edited December 10, 2005 by mfishmike

[///M5 2,833]

That sounds sweet. I imagine we are miles apart tho.

What sort of fan is in the QSC? I just put a couple 120mm Nexus fans in my CPU and now can only hear my "ultra quiet" Zalman coolers humming along. Even if you had to run a RS 12vdc converter to power a couple if they were at all normal sizes I could probably save you time locating some really quiet ones. I am sure your going to love the Rl-p's.

[///M5 2,833]

Oh normal PA stuff usually has either a 60 or hopefully in your case 80mm fans.

[mfishmike 0]

That sounds sweet.

Edited November 16, 2005 by mfishmike

[SoundSplinter 1]

Welcome to the forums Mike!

Can't wait to hear your impressions.

[///M5 2,833]

Wouldn't buy a fan at Frye's (usually cheap = loud) and I agree that it would only be a temp solution, but I am in awe over how quiet my cpu is now. I used to shut it off to watch tv and only listen to music on the my AKG's, but now it is a jukebox in the same room as my stereo and pretty much in the noise floor of the room. Probably would have the same effect on your QSC's, but indeed something better for your drivers will make you happier.

Oh, and you gotta love that Mike himself wants to hear your impressions! Sweet.

[mfishmike 0]

Welcome to the forums Mike! 

Can't wait to hear your impressions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank "You" Mike for being so attentive and prompt with your emails and service. Others could learn by your email skills. "They know who they are".

I'm able to use the black slate covered baffel I had in the cabinet, and there will be 1/16" clearance to the edge of the baffel. The grill will fit with 1/8" to spare. Those heavy drivers will have to be installed in the pre installed baffel first, using the PR holes to access the locknuts. I can hardly wait for your shipment!! ...

[Kyle Richardson 0]

Mike - you should be able to recoup most of the price paid for the Titanics if you sell them in the various audio forums. At least that would help with the migration over to the SS Premium drivers.

The Premiums are a nice step up and should prove to be satisfying.

Edit - Nevermind, I just read you post a few up from there and noticed you have sold the Titanics

Edited November 16, 2005 by Kyle Richardson

[mfishmike 0]

Mike - you should be able to recoup most of the price paid for the Titanics if you sell them in the various audio forums.  At least that would help with the migration over to the SS Premium drivers.

The Premiums are a nice step up and should prove to be satisfying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Kyle,

I sold them and shipped them on Monday. I got about 1/2 price which is to be expected for used electronics and had to pay shipping. PE is now offering free shipping over $100 so I had that to compete with. I'm afraid he's going to destroy them because he's going to attempt to drive them in an infinite baffel application. A bunch of guys on Bob Stout's forum and myself have told him not to do it.

Thanks a lot for your response.....

I hope these dual 15"'s work well and maybe these DIY guys will buy some more of your PR's and drivers as they are fantastic, easy to load mass to, and work very well.

Mike Cason

[mfishmike 0]

Mike.....

Not good news this Saturday.....

I tested the new drivers with a bass test cd and accidently hit the 10 hz when the amp was about at 1/2 power. and destroyed all four prs at the same time......we are taught not to do that in speaker building kindergarden.

Now I've got to figure what road to take at this point. I had the pr's loaded at 1500 grams for the Titanics. I could block up the holes and have less efficiency but have a decent sounding sub, or buy new passive radiators and load them with less mass. I don't know if the extra expense is worth it......These are certainly great drivers......

[///M5 2,833]

Doh!

Sorry to hear that...

[SoundSplinter 1]

Scandalous! Who says sub-sonic filters are useless?

May your PR's RIP

[60ndown 0]

Mike.....

Not good news this Saturday.....

I tested the new drivers with a bass test cd and accidently hit the 10 hz when the amp was about at 1/2 power. and destroyed all four prs at the same time......we are taught not to do that in speaker building kindergarden. 

Now I've got to figure what road to take at this point.  I had the pr's loaded at 1500 grams for the Titanics.  I could block up the holes and have less efficiency but have a decent sounding sub, or buy new passive radiators and load them with less mass.  I don't know if the extra expense is worth it......These are certainly great drivers......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if you go to

www.decware.com

check their 'speaker' page and look for a desighn called the 'housewrecker' its desighned for 15s and is disturbingly good.after a recent kitchen re-model there is no longer room for my houswrecker

it sits in my garage waiting for a new home, if your anywhere near north califonia you could use/try/buy it? i onlyhave some old school jbls in there and the bass is rediculous, with some rl-p 15s im sure we could do some serious structual damage or you could just build your own?

[mfishmike 0]

That is an impressive ad about the housewrecker, but as you can see in the photos in my original thread post, I have built all of my speakers to match with black slate finish, matching grills, and gold nameplates.

Adire is not making and selling the prs anymore, and another source which I won't name out of respect isn't returning emails so I've ordered the Dayton prs today.

I won't load the mass so heavy and will keep it around 900 grams per passive radiator and will adjust them up and down until I get the desired results. The cabinet is operating as an infinite baffel right now with the prs removed, and it sounds great with the two RL-p 15" drivers. I am, of course, not driving them like I would if they were finished to keep them from over excursion.

I believe these drivers are everything Mike has said them to be! I like the high motor strength and lower Q. I'll have the Dayton PRs here by December 1st and will post some results the following Saturday. I'll keep everyone posted as I think this is going to be a subwoofer that each and everyone of you would love to have! When I'm done, I'll post a complete photo essay with descriptions on a server everyone can visit without joining.

Mike Cason

Edited November 24, 2005 by mfishmike

[///M5 2,833]

Right on Mike! Can't wait to hear your impressions. I am thinking of doing something similar in the next year or so.

[60ndown 0]

That is an impressive ad about the housewrecker, but as you can see in the photos in my original thread post, I have built all of my speakers to match with black slate finish, matching grills, and gold nameplates.

Adire is not making and selling the prs anymore, and another source which I won't name out of respect isn't returning emails so I've ordered the Dayton prs today. 

I won't load the mass so heavy and will keep it around 900 grams per passive radiator and will adjust them up and down until I get the desired results.  The cabinet is operating as an infinite baffel right now with the prs removed, and it sounds great with the two RL-p 15" drivers.  I am, of course, not driving them like I would if they were finished to keep them from over excursion.

I believe these drivers are everything Mike has said them to be!  I like the high motor strength and lower Q.  I'll have the Dayton PRs here by December 1st and will post some results the following Saturday.  I'll keep everyone posted as I think this is going to be a subwoofer that each and everyone of you would love to have!  When I'm done, I'll post a complete photo essay with descriptions on a server everyone can visit without joining. 

Mike Cason

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have an rl-p 12 i.b. in my car with 600 wrms- no sighn of distress, go ahead spank those monkeys

[mfishmike 0]

Well, I spanked those monkeys without the passive radiators installed and it didn't sound good at all, cranked up. I used a couple of music concert DVD's with good bass and it was just loud, muddy, almost irritating. I'll see what happens with the Dayton prs installed and tweaked. These guys have to be built right to sound right!

Edited November 26, 2005 by mfishmike

[haydenlake 0]

Well, I spanked those monkeys without the passive radiators installed and it didn't sound good at all, cranked up.  I used a couple of music concert DVD's with good bass and it was just loud, muddy, almost irritating.  I'll see what happens with the Dayton prs installed and tweaked.  These guys have to be built right to sound right!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just my .02

Why are you trying to stay with a PR design? Maybe I haven't heard many good ones but they usually have really high group delay. It could be very true that I've only heard bad PR designs.

For the price of 2 RLP's did you not consider getting the RLS? But with your amp I could see how that might not work well. If you wind up strapping those rlp's with some good plate amps you should be happy.

Was using your original box a major factor in your build? If so I guess that answers many of my questions.

later,

b

[mfishmike 0]

Just my .02

Why are you trying to stay with a PR design? Maybe I haven't heard many good ones but they usually have really high group delay. It could be very true that I've only heard bad PR designs.

For the price of 2 RLP's did you not consider getting the RLS? But with your amp I could see how that might not work well. If you wind up strapping those rlp's with some good plate amps you should be happy.

Was using your original box a major factor in your build? If so I guess that answers many of my questions.

later,

b

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The PR design will extend the bass deeper than a sealed box and will eliminate any port resonance or chuffing to achieve the same results than if I went a ported or vented system. I used to own a Legacy Point One subwoofer ($2,600) with a single spun aluminum driver and a downfiring cone type passive radiator and it was incredible and unbelievable in sound quality and deep bass at either high or low volumes.

I didn't run the box calculations, but I would imagine there isn't enough room in the box to port the box properly either. I want the deeper bass because I enjoy music more than the movies and want that cleaner, deeper bass, and not necessarily at high volumes.

I don't need the higher spl that the Supreme series would give me, and at the lower volumes I don't think I would get the deep bass that the Premium series will provide. That Supreme is a monster, and monsters need power, and with that power comes higher spl. I think it would work terrific though for movies with that extra punch, louder music, and spl competition in automobiles!

You were right on the secound count too. I didn't have enough power for the Premium, and am hoping to get by with what I already have. After installing the new PRs and re-testing, I may find I'll still need more power though. If so, I'm looking at getting another QSC amp to drive the second driver in and coming up with a solution for the cooling fan noise problem, or selling the existing QSC I have, and just upgrading to a very good two channel amp like the Rotel RB 1090 which is a very high current amp giving you 380 watts @ 8 ohm or 700 watts @ 4 ohm per channel. I looked at several plate amps thought about putting a pair on the back of the cabinet, but I can buy the Rotel or similar amp used at Audiogon for the same or less money and keep it in the equipment rack. My receiver handles the crossover work quite well.

Yes the box was a primary factor, as I already had the Adire PR's in there, and it was complete with grills. All I had to do was rebrace and cut the baffel holes bigger. That is a special order slate Pionite laminate that I used and i just didn't want to rebuilt the box again.

I appreciate your comment and observations!

Mike

Edited November 27, 2005 by mfishmike

[mfishmike 0]

Mike,

I got the Dayton PR's installed last evening! Boy was I dis-appointed! I had to reduce the crossover to 40 hz to get a decent sound without the ringing or boomey bass. I couldn't imagine what the heck was going on! I kept making adjustments with the receiver and bingo, I found the problem. I had the subwoofer maxed out in three settings in the Rotel 1065 for the Titanics MKIIIs. I dropped 2 of the sub level adjustments to +2 db instead of having them set to max.

I've got the crossover set at 60 hz now and it is fantastic! The mains said "thank you" now that they don't have to carry the heavy 40 to 60 hz load. That helped the overall performance of the surrounds too because of the load was lifted off of the mains and amp.

I watched Diana Krall Live in Paris and Fleetwood Mac's DVD and the bass was everything I was hoping for. The wife going to bed factor kicked in so I turned it down, and the low hz frequencies and bass drums were still so clean and well defined at the low volumes. AAHHH.....High fidelity at it's finest!

I was concerned about not having enough power using 450 watts per driver with the QSC 1450 amp, but it is quite acceptable. If I run across some extra cash later, I may buy another QSC amp and bridge each of them to increase the power to 1400 watts per driver, and daisy chain the amp inputs. That will give me some more headroom and an even better sound! The variable speed fans will be quieter too, without having to work as hard.

I've loaded up the 4 Dayton 15" passive radiators with appx. 1060 grams total weight including the mms of the prs. I'll run some other DVDs and bass tests to see if they are where I want them. When I get the sub finished to my satisfaction, I'll shoot some photos of the project, along with my weight loading process, and upload them to a server for the group to view, hopefully by the end of the weekend.

Thanks again Mike for a really great pair of drivers!

Mike Cason

Edited December 10, 2005 by mfishmike

[60ndown 0]

Mike,

I got the Dayton PR's installed last evening!

Edited December 2, 2005 by 60ndown

[60ndown 0]

bass bost only colours the sound in a negative way you should be able to achive excellent low end extensin with tons f weight and presence without any bost, especially with your new drivers.