Couple of questions about Planar Transducers

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

When I was planing out my current system, I almost (like had them in the cart and didn't buy) some planar transducers and glassed them up on the A pillars or in the kicks of my Yukon.

I decided against them based on some things I read about the diaphragm being so fragile. I read claims about air and heat damaging the diaphragm so I decided against that. I did have a set of Infinity towers way back that had a EMIT ribbon and I really enjoyed the sound. Unfortunately me being young and not having enough power on tap, I blew the EMIT's a couple of times and finally sold them for something that would get louder on my power. Wish I had those back now that I could take better care of them.

From what I have read, (no personal experience) planer transducers are very clear and will play quite loud which I need for my set up. I am thinking that these may be a good option for me to try out, but I am worried about blowing them if they are indeed as fragile as has been claimed.

I want to try and get some semblance of a front stage back, have better imaging/staging at lower volumes, and still have enough room to let it rip and keep up with my subs. (4 18" Xcons)

Right now I keep up pretty damn good, but that's all it is, loud and clear as hell - nothing more. I don't want to go with horns right now, that just looks like a big pain in the ass trying to fit them and tune them. The planer tweeters seem like a good compromise on paper and I think would be easier to set up, but like I said I have never listened to this in a car environment and have no personal experience.

My front right now is as follows:

B&C 10NW64 10" Neodymium Woofer Bandpassed 63hz - 2000hz/2500hz (I go back and forth here from time to time)

Crescendo Supertweeters crossed at 3000hz

The mids are seeing 250w each and the tweeters have 80w going to them, but my gains on the tweeters are all the way down and on my HU I have them lowered another -4db so they are not getting a full 80w.

I like it a lot right now and it sounds pretty good, but it is not exactly what I want. I like the air and sense of space of a silk tweeter, but I need something that will play at a very loud level and still sound fast, crisp, and have they airy feeling to them. Hope that makes sense. I realize the planer tweeters are not as sensitive as the super tweeters, but with all that surface area it does not look like getting loud would be a problem.

I have been looking at these again and I hope some of you can provide some experience with them or similar.

Bohlender Graebener Neo8 Planar Transducer

From looking at them, they would provide me the ability to cross them over a good bit lower and play more vocals from them. From what I have read they could provide what I am looking for.

Anyone have some input/opinions they could share. Please let me know more information is needed on my end.

Thanks in advance.

[///M5 2,833]

You should get horns. Really.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Well part 2 of the reason I am shying away from horns is I may not be able to fit them without making new pods. I really don't want to buy them and find out they wont fit.

So even though horns would be best, is this an upgrade or a waste of time?

[95Honda 486]

I would be personally conserned about 2 things. #1, if you already have those midbasses, I am not sure those B/G planars would keep up, they aren't nearly as sensitive and don't handle a ton of power. #2, I would be worried about the off-axis response if you are not able to mount them perfect.

Just a thing to remember, even the top end planars are only comparable to a $50 Vifa ring radiator... Read all the hype all you want, but they just aren't a miracle.

I spent alot of time in the early 90's modifiying many Magnaplanars, they were the reference speakers we had at Audioprism when I worked there. Thier top end models didn't even use planar tweeters, they used ribbons.... Huge long ribbons... I spent alot of time with them, got used to the sound. I still don't think they were comparable to standard conventional drivers...

Read Zaph's last test-

ribbon/planar tests

Edited January 29, 2011 by 95Honda

[95Honda 486]

BTW, those are some nice door pods....

[///M5 2,833]

Don't forget they are fragile and can easily become paperweights.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I ran the Neo3PDRs in my last Mustang with excellent results, but everything I do is low (less than 500 total watts) power. They worked great, but keep in mind, these types of drivers really need to be on-axis. I can not stress that enough. The response and crossover point can be manipulated with a rear chamber and damping, but it's simply trial and error per application, so they can be very time-consuming. I also have messed with the LCY ribbon tweets when NP was selling them cheap on DIYMA and some Fountek NEos as well. I loved the ribbon drivers, mainly the LCYs. They are very detailed and crisp, but they need a GOOD midrange. I would NOT recommend them for a 2-way and they are all big and hard to implement. These are even further affected by axial mounting as well. I never had any issues with their "fragility" though. I still have the BGs and will be implementing them in a future install.

Unless you have a lot of time to invest and just have to have them, you really can't beat a standard tweeter, and you appear to have plenty of room to get a good, large format driver.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Well part 2 of the reason I am shying away from horns is I may not be able to fit them without making new pods. I really don't want to buy them and find out they wont fit.

So even though horns would be best, is this an upgrade or a waste of time?

do you have speaker grills for those drivers ??? mine would be demolished by now with people geting in and out ...

This question may not be on-topic, but a big concern for me and my ride ...

do you have tweeters up in your a pillars ??

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Thank you for the replies.

This is not going how I wanted it to. My miracle tweeter looks like a fail.

@95Honda

thanks for the link. I didn't know Zaph had even tested planers. I found this very interesting "I often hear people babble on about the shimmer, sparkle and air of ribbon tweeters. These tests show where these "special effects" are coming from - distortion". Humm, well that is no good. Getting them on axis could be done, but I would not try to do that in the pillars so that leaves just the kicks. Not ideal for something that is noted to be fragile. If they wont keep up with the mids then it's a moot point. I was thinking with the surface area it would not be a problem. My thinking is it would be like having 20 tweeters in the car and i would have to tone it down.

Thank you for the on the pods.

@ ///M5

Them being noted as fragile was my first worry. My truck has the potential to put a lot of air and vibration on them and if I had to put them in the kicks to get them on axis they would also be subjected to dirty feet and such.

@ Tirefryr

My mids can play up to 2500hz with no problem and can dig pretty low with some EQ on the bottom. Thats why I was thinking I could run them 2 way.

When you say a standard tweeter, do you have any suggestions?

While eventually I may end up with horns, I put a lot of effort into these door pods and I really dont want to scrap the idea. Maybe a horn would fit, but that's a lot of coin to drop to find out differently.

The cut out for the ST I have in the pod now is 4.9x4.6 inches and i made the base a little big so I could the opening a little if needed. I dont mind modifying the pods to house a different tweeter and could aim them no problem, but I dont really want to start over on the pods.

1. I do have some kick panels from my last install that would house a 5-1-4" driver. Is there anything I could put in there that would help? I nice large format would be nice, but I dont see any that can keep up with the rest of the install.

2. Would adding multiple tweeters in the pillar be a bad idea?

3. Does anyone have a full body horn they want to loan me to see if I can fit them? lol

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

do you have speaker grills for those drivers ??? mine would be demolished by now with people geting in and out ...

This question may not be on-topic, but a big concern for me and my ride ...

do you have tweeters up in your a pillars ??

Yes Sir, I do have grills just not pictured.

No, I do not have tweeters in the pillars. When I was running my 3 way I had the mids and tweeters in the kicks and the 8" midbass in the door. That sounded good, but put my sound stage

centered at the bottom of the radio/dash. I was going to do like you did and glass them in to the pillars, but ditched the idea as there was no way that set up would be herd over the subs at volume.

[95Honda 486]

Either way, your system is very well thought out and I am sure you are going to decide on something that really works well.

Personally, and since you have the room, I would go with a full-size dome.... You have alot of room.... If you are worried about output, you could choose a higher sensitivity/robust power handling one. I am a big fan of the Ring radiators from Vifa. You could even look into the Morel horn loaded ones (they have a couple) if you are sure you can get them fairly on axis, I think they are also ferrofluid filled. So they can probably take a little short term abuse well...... No dome is going to be nearly as loud as that pro-audio tweeter you have now, but it still might surprise you..

Problem with using multiple tweeters is (unless you get them in a line array that actually works) you get serious beaming when you put a few of them together, 4 of them in a square almost makes a spotlight dispersion pattern... All kinds of wierd things start happening with lobing and other strange unprecitable effects.. Additionally, done right, a single pair of high quality domes that close to the listening position with any amount of decent power should keep up with anything but retard levels of continuos playback...

[Randal Johnson 544]

I was going to do like you did and glass them in to the pillars, but ditched the idea as there was no way that set up would be herd over the subs at volume.

I'd be willing to bet that we could suprise you with this one ... ask Mark

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I was going to do like you did and glass them in to the pillars, but ditched the idea as there was no way that set up would be herd over the subs at volume.

I'd be willing to bet that we could suprise you with this one ... ask Mark

You know we boys Randal, but I am going to say no way - no how a set of component speakers would be able to get as loud as what I have now and no way a 1" silk tweeter would stand a chance. lol

If you are suggesting running multiple sets, the whole purpose of me running large pro audio drivers was to avoid that. My set up is night and day different from yours so keep that in mind.

What I have now sounds pretty good and get really loud, I love the mids I am running now. I am just searching for other tweeter options. I want something a little smoother that still has enough ass to get loud as shit when I crank on the volume.

I want the best of both worlds. I want to have the ability to have a nice high and wide soundstage while still allowing me to beat the doors off my truck.

Mids are great!!! Tweeter is good for what it is, but it is most defiantly the weak spot of my system. it is loud, but does not have any sparkle or sense of space.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Either way, your system is very well thought out and I am sure you are going to decide on something that really works well.

Personally, and since you have the room, I would go with a full-size dome.... You have alot of room.... If you are worried about output, you could choose a higher sensitivity/robust power handling one. I am a big fan of the Ring radiators from Vifa. You could even look into the Morel horn loaded ones (they have a couple) if you are sure you can get them fairly on axis, I think they are also ferrofluid filled. So they can probably take a little short term abuse well...... No dome is going to be nearly as loud as that pro-audio tweeter you have now, but it still might surprise you..

Problem with using multiple tweeters is (unless you get them in a line array that actually works) you get serious beaming when you put a few of them together, 4 of them in a square almost makes a spotlight dispersion pattern... All kinds of wierd things start happening with lobing and other strange unprecitable effects.. Additionally, done right, a single pair of high quality domes that close to the listening position with any amount of decent power should keep up with anything but retard levels of continuos playback...

I didnt see this one,

Full sized dome, Like large format home audio? Not trying to be spoon fed, but do you have a link to some you have used or would if you were in my shoes. IF I could find one that is sensitive enough to keep up I would be all over it. I will go look at the Vifa and Morel on Madisound now. I have the the ST tuned way down, so maybe. I will take a look. Thanks for the advice.

As for power, I have 80w x 4 or 320 x 2 at 4ohm for the tweeters so I should be able to work with that. I am fairly sure I could get them on axis anywhere I put them.

Yeah, I agree. I would prefer to stay away from multiple drivers. I have never really herd set ups with lots of drivers playing the same frequencies sound good honestly.

I am fairly sure I could get them on axis. Will need to look at the size, cut that out and go play around. I dont want too big of a distraction if I put them in the pillar.