* Ask Don of SDS *

[hondakilla98 29]

Well the box runs from wheelwell to wheelwell and from the back seat to about 3" before the trunk opening starts. And there is only about 4" between the top of the box and the rear deck. So I guess it is already pretty well blocked off.

[porkchop 304]

Hey Don, I sent a pm to you sorta flipping this ^ senario ... where the trunk is seperated by the enclosure , I have the intentions of installing a wall in the 86 cutlass....

would there be any benifits of deadener from the b pillar back?

thanks!

[stockley.rod 0]

Hey Don,

Simple question for the man: I got a 2004 Civic Sedan, I'm currently running 6.5's in Kick Panels with a tweet in the A-Pillar. I've recently purchased drivers from H-Audio for a new front stage, this means a new install with a full treatment of deadener and MLV. There is currently no deadener in the car at all, also no speakers in any of the doors. I don't have a wild sub stage so road noise reduction is the ultimate goal. What should I do with the doors? Should I treat them like there is a mid there and seal off the access holes? or is a layer on the outer most skin and some on the inside skin enough? Both cases MLV & CCF will also be applied.

Also I've read a lot from some Honda guys, saying deadener up in the wheel wells makes a big difference. Are you familiar with 7th gen Civics? Whats your thoughts?

Thanks

-Rod

oh I send you an email too, you know usual price quote stuff...

[Rudeboy 152]

Hey Don,

Simple question for the man: I got a 2004 Civic Sedan, I'm currently running 6.5's in Kick Panels with a tweet in the A-Pillar. I've recently purchased drivers from H-Audio for a new front stage, this means a new install with a full treatment of deadener and MLV. There is currently no deadener in the car at all, also no speakers in any of the doors. I don't have a wild sub stage so road noise reduction is the ultimate goal. What should I do with the doors? Should I treat them like there is a mid there and seal off the access holes? or is a layer on the outer most skin and some on the inside skin enough? Both cases MLV & CCF will also be applied.

Also I've read a lot from some Honda guys, saying deadener up in the wheel wells makes a big difference. Are you familiar with 7th gen Civics? Whats your thoughts?

Thanks

-Rod

oh I send you an email too, you know usual price quote stuff...

In 2005 I drove a new Civic EX Sedan off the dealer's lot. I'd never heard of aftermarket acoustical treatments for cars, but within a day or two I realized I had a big noise problem. I couldn't talk on the phone and could barely hear the factory sound system. Like most people, my first attempt was to upgrade the stereo in an attempt to overpower the noise. The original SDS began as an attempt to figure out what products to use in my Civic. It has also served as a test bed for almost every product on the market. It also taught me that the recommended "layer on the vibration damper" treatment was a terrible way to reduce noise.

I decided to rip everything out and start fresh using the treatments I sell. Aaron can tell you about this stage of the product since he helped. Here's what came out:

I would have been better off buying a replacement but couldn't bring myself to pass that mess off on to someone else. I'd guess it took a solid month's labor, spread out over the fall and winter to get back to stock.

I'm almost done. I've been documenting the installation and will be posting the project on my Web site. This is actually why I've been so far behind on e-mails for the past month or so. Trunk's done. Roof's done. Front doors are done. Carpet went back in last night. All that's left is the back seat platform and rear doors. Rear deck will have to wait since I'll be mounting a sub IB there and will need to have the rear glass removed to do it.

Anyway, yes, I'm familiar with 7th gen Civics. I hung CCF and MLV on the inner and outer front door skins, but have mids mounted in them. The inner skin layer is more important for noise reduction since a lot of noise enters the doors from the top, sides and bottom. The outer skin layer blocks a little more noise but I installed it to make it harder to hear the speakers from outside the car.

[stockley.rod 0]

In 2005 I drove a new Civic EX Sedan off the dealer's lot. I'd never heard of aftermarket acoustical treatments for cars, but within a day or two I realized I had a big noise problem. I couldn't talk on the phone and could barely hear the factory sound system. Like most people, my first attempt was to upgrade the stereo in an attempt to overpower the noise. The original SDS began as an attempt to figure out what products to use in my Civic. It has also served as a test bed for almost every product on the market. It also taught me that the recommended "layer on the vibration damper" treatment was a terrible way to reduce noise.

I decided to rip everything out and start fresh using the treatments I sell. Aaron can tell you about this stage of the product since he helped. Here's what came out:

PIC

I would have been better off buying a replacement but couldn't bring myself to pass that mess off on to someone else. I'd guess it took a solid month's labor, spread out over the fall and winter to get back to stock.

I'm almost done. I've been documenting the installation and will be posting the project on my Web site. This is actually why I've been so far behind on e-mails for the past month or so. Trunk's done. Roof's done. Front doors are done. Carpet went back in last night. All that's left is the back seat platform and rear doors. Rear deck will have to wait since I'll be mounting a sub IB there and will need to have the rear glass removed to do it.

Anyway, yes, I'm familiar with 7th gen Civics. I hung CCF and MLV on the inner and outer front door skins, but have mids mounted in them. The inner skin layer is more important for noise reduction since a lot of noise enters the doors from the top, sides and bottom. The outer skin layer blocks a little more noise but I installed it to make it harder to hear the speakers from outside the car.

Thats A LOT of deadener. I'm not sure if I want to do both layers, probably just the inner. I can't imagine what your civic is going to be like but now i'm going to have to wait to see before I order my stuff.

Will you be taking any measurements? Before and after db levels? it would be interesting to see how a properly treated civic compares to mine.

Are you going to post exactly what and how much of your own materials where installed? It will give me a good idea as I have Canadian Si Sedan which its identical to the US EX.

Thanks for the response, waiting anxiously for that build log lol.

[Rudeboy 152]

In 2005 I drove a new Civic EX Sedan off the dealer's lot. I'd never heard of aftermarket acoustical treatments for cars, but within a day or two I realized I had a big noise problem. I couldn't talk on the phone and could barely hear the factory sound system. Like most people, my first attempt was to upgrade the stereo in an attempt to overpower the noise. The original SDS began as an attempt to figure out what products to use in my Civic. It has also served as a test bed for almost every product on the market. It also taught me that the recommended "layer on the vibration damper" treatment was a terrible way to reduce noise.

I decided to rip everything out and start fresh using the treatments I sell. Aaron can tell you about this stage of the product since he helped. Here's what came out:

PIC

I would have been better off buying a replacement but couldn't bring myself to pass that mess off on to someone else. I'd guess it took a solid month's labor, spread out over the fall and winter to get back to stock.

I'm almost done. I've been documenting the installation and will be posting the project on my Web site. This is actually why I've been so far behind on e-mails for the past month or so. Trunk's done. Roof's done. Front doors are done. Carpet went back in last night. All that's left is the back seat platform and rear doors. Rear deck will have to wait since I'll be mounting a sub IB there and will need to have the rear glass removed to do it.

Anyway, yes, I'm familiar with 7th gen Civics. I hung CCF and MLV on the inner and outer front door skins, but have mids mounted in them. The inner skin layer is more important for noise reduction since a lot of noise enters the doors from the top, sides and bottom. The outer skin layer blocks a little more noise but I installed it to make it harder to hear the speakers from outside the car.

Thats A LOT of deadener. I'm not sure if I want to do both layers, probably just the inner. I can't imagine what your civic is going to be like but now i'm going to have to wait to see before I order my stuff.

Will you be taking any measurements? Before and after db levels? it would be interesting to see how a properly treated civic compares to mine.

Are you going to post exactly what and how much of your own materials where installed? It will give me a good idea as I have Canadian Si Sedan which its identical to the US EX.

Thanks for the response, waiting anxiously for that build log lol.

Yes to all questions. Lots of measurements. Lots of photos. Lots of "do this for 95% of the benefit, this for over the top".

[stockley.rod 0]

Yes to all questions. Lots of measurements. Lots of photos. Lots of "do this for 95% of the benefit, this for over the top".

Well if it ends up anything like your website... its going to be quite an interesting read to say the least, I can't wait.

Thanks for the help

-Rod

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

More importantly, a barrier's performance depends on how much it increases the mass of what is already there - you need to double mass to gain an audible improvement. Adding 1 lb/ft² to sheet metal that starts around 1/2 lb/ft² does that. Any idea how thick the application of a liquid product would have to be to get to 1 lb/ft²? I don't remember, but it think it is 6mm or so, roughly 1/4" inch. I can't even guess how many cans of an aerosol it would take to coat the entire underside of even a small car to that thickness. You would need to cover the entire underside since sound will bend around a more difficult barrier to follow an easier path.

Last I checked (and its been awhile since shop class) most car floorboards are usually 16 or 18 gauge, which is in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 lb./sq. ft. Are they making floors thinner these days or am I just talking out of my ass?

[Rudeboy 152]

More importantly, a barrier's performance depends on how much it increases the mass of what is already there - you need to double mass to gain an audible improvement. Adding 1 lb/ft² to sheet metal that starts around 1/2 lb/ft² does that. Any idea how thick the application of a liquid product would have to be to get to 1 lb/ft²? I don't remember, but it think it is 6mm or so, roughly 1/4" inch. I can't even guess how many cans of an aerosol it would take to coat the entire underside of even a small car to that thickness. You would need to cover the entire underside since sound will bend around a more difficult barrier to follow an easier path.

Last I checked (and its been awhile since shop class) most car floorboards are usually 16 or 18 gauge, which is in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 lb./sq. ft. Are they making floors thinner these days or am I just talking out of my ass?

First of all, I see an error in what I said - doubling mass gets you a 6 dB reduction. You also start to get into the difference between a rigid and limp barrier. The point is still worth keeping in mind. I'm not sure what's being used on floors now. I do know that I've yet to lay a barrier on the floor and not been able to hear a difference, but it is less of a difference than you get when adding it to the thinner and lighter sheet metal used for door skins, quarter panels, etc. I don't know what they told you door skins were made of in shop class, but if you've ever handled a new one it's shockingly light.

[Sencheezy 689]

hey don, where's those pics at??? lol

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

More importantly, a barrier's performance depends on how much it increases the mass of what is already there - you need to double mass to gain an audible improvement. Adding 1 lb/ft² to sheet metal that starts around 1/2 lb/ft² does that. Any idea how thick the application of a liquid product would have to be to get to 1 lb/ft²? I don't remember, but it think it is 6mm or so, roughly 1/4" inch. I can't even guess how many cans of an aerosol it would take to coat the entire underside of even a small car to that thickness. You would need to cover the entire underside since sound will bend around a more difficult barrier to follow an easier path.

Last I checked (and its been awhile since shop class) most car floorboards are usually 16 or 18 gauge, which is in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 lb./sq. ft. Are they making floors thinner these days or am I just talking out of my ass?

First of all, I see an error in what I said - doubling mass gets you a 6 dB reduction. You also start to get into the difference between a rigid and limp barrier. The point is still worth keeping in mind. I'm not sure what's being used on floors now. I do know that I've yet to lay a barrier on the floor and not been able to hear a difference, but it is less of a difference than you get when adding it to the thinner and lighter sheet metal used for door skins, quarter panels, etc. I don't know what they told you door skins were made of in shop class, but if you've ever handled a new one it's shockingly light.

Door skins were 18 or 20 gauge and floors were 16 or 18 gauge, but those cars were predominately midsize and fullsize American cars from the 70's and 80's the teacher pulled out of a junkyard to teach us how to weld and do basic metal work; a whole lot has changed in the automotive world since then.

[Rudeboy 152]

hey don, where's those pics at??? lol

Which ones?

[Rudeboy 152]

More importantly, a barrier's performance depends on how much it increases the mass of what is already there - you need to double mass to gain an audible improvement. Adding 1 lb/ft² to sheet metal that starts around 1/2 lb/ft² does that. Any idea how thick the application of a liquid product would have to be to get to 1 lb/ft²? I don't remember, but it think it is 6mm or so, roughly 1/4" inch. I can't even guess how many cans of an aerosol it would take to coat the entire underside of even a small car to that thickness. You would need to cover the entire underside since sound will bend around a more difficult barrier to follow an easier path.

Last I checked (and its been awhile since shop class) most car floorboards are usually 16 or 18 gauge, which is in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 lb./sq. ft. Are they making floors thinner these days or am I just talking out of my ass?

First of all, I see an error in what I said - doubling mass gets you a 6 dB reduction. You also start to get into the difference between a rigid and limp barrier. The point is still worth keeping in mind. I'm not sure what's being used on floors now. I do know that I've yet to lay a barrier on the floor and not been able to hear a difference, but it is less of a difference than you get when adding it to the thinner and lighter sheet metal used for door skins, quarter panels, etc. I don't know what they told you door skins were made of in shop class, but if you've ever handled a new one it's shockingly light.

Door skins were 18 or 20 gauge and floors were 16 or 18 gauge, but those cars were predominately midsize and fullsize American cars from the 70's and 80's the teacher pulled out of a junkyard to teach us how to weld and do basic metal work; a whole lot has changed in the automotive world since then.

Oh yea. Much thinner now. The sheet metal used to be there to protect you. That function has been almost completely shifted to other components. Now it's pretty much just there to hold the paint

[Beandip 3]

So Don, been reading a ton about your products and i think i am going to go ahead and treat my door panels.

anyways, i am ordering an amp to get full use of my focal K2 components. lately i have been wasting them by not having them amped, even worse is the doors are not sealed at all so my midbass is horrible. anyways i was wondering what you suggest i do as far as how to seal the doors off. mostly road noise is not a huge issue in my truck, my tires play a big part in keeping that down so i dont think i need to address that issue yet since its not excessive IMO...but my main goal is to get the most out of my components.

as far as the panel vibrating the only part that does is the window crank, but that is no big deal since i will be getting billet window cranks soon (plastic rotating part rattled). other than that the panel is solid as far as i can tell.

so in conclusion, i was going to see how much of your CLD tiles i would need to treat the door. i know 25% coverage is whats needed but i'd like an expert opinion also i suppose it wouldnt hurt to get some MLV as well and some butyl rope. still not quite sure how to seal the door off though but i figured butyl rope would play a part in sealing it. also i could use the stuff to seal the factory speaker pod.

after this is figured out i guess i will place my order

oh and here is a picture of my door panel, sorry i dont have a pic with the factory plastic off but just to give you an idea. if needed i will give you measurements.

said vehicle is a 2000 somoma (s10)

here is one from google to give you a better idea.

Thanks for your time!

Edited June 29, 2011 by beandip

[Rudeboy 152]

Sharp looking Sonoma.

You will want to start with 25% coverage of the inner skin and outer skin sheet metal with vibration damper, but that's just the start.

We can't seal a car door in any meaningful way. If nothing else, the drains need to stay open. We can't take the interior air space and expect it to behave like a proper sealed enclosure. At best, it would be a leaky enclosure at whatever its volume is. Most car audio mids aren't designed for use in sealed enclosures anyway. That leads me to what we can do.

The most important step is getting a layer of MLV on the inner skin. This won't perfectly seal the plane the speaker is mounted to but it will acoustically isolate the front and back of the speaker. This prevents cancellation. It also puts the back wave output behind the barrier. If you can't hear it, you don't really care what it does inside the door. This is good since it is virtually impossible to absorb or change the path of sound in the middle frequencies with the space available inside a vehicle door.

To get the best performance out of the MLV, you'll need to decouple it from the inner skin, to which the MLV is attached, and more to decouple the MLV from the trim panel. The ideal is Inner Skin / CCF / MLV / CCF / Trim Panel.

A very cool addition is a layer of CCF and MLV on the outer skin. This blocks a little more noise entry, might present a better boundary interface than plain steel, but the real reason to do it is because it makes it harder to hear your mids from outside of the truck. With a fully treated vehicle, you can listen to music at much higher volumes without attracting attention to yourself. I've thought I was going to be ticketed a few times but remembered that nobody outside the car can really hear this. My girlfriend told me she knew I had pulled into the driveway because the floor inside the house was shaking but she couldn't hear any music. Very pimp, almost literally.

Butyl rope is really only useful if you have side intrusion prevention beams inside the doors, or plan to use it when mounting speakers. It's excellent between a mounting ring and sheet metal. When you bolt it down, you seal air leaks and create a vibration damper in place. I have a 10" sub mounted to the rear deck in my Civic in an Infinite Baffle configuration. The rear deck wasn't flat enough so I built a leveling platform out of fiberglass. Then I cut a mounting plate out of 1/2" MDF. Plate goes on top of fiberglass, both get bolted to the rear deck. I put EBR between the sheet metal and FG and between the FG and MDF. Bolted it down and it is extremely solid. One guy with blow through from a box in the bed of his pickup put it under the box. Apparently stopped the bed from rattling as it had done before. Pretty cool stuff if you have a use for it.

[Beandip 3]

first, sorry for the noob questions, gotta start somewhere, also its late so i may be having brain farts

Sharp looking Sonoma.

Thanks i try to do things the right way, keeps me away from half-ass hacks.

You will want to start with 25% coverage of the inner skin and outer skin sheet metal with vibration damper, but that's just the start.

so what do you mean by outer skin? the actual outside of the panel where the paint is (inside of that) i wasnt sure because i figured it would retain moisture and cause it to rust. but even so what does covering the outer skin help? i figure you would just cover the inner panel (where the speaker mounts to the door) or do i have inner/outer skin mixed up lol. basically what exactly is the inner skin? the sheet metal behind the plastic door panel correct? just clarifying so i can be on the same page.

We can't seal a car door in any meaningful way. If nothing else, the drains need to stay open. We can't take the interior air space and expect it to behave like a proper sealed enclosure. At best, it would be a leaky enclosure at whatever its volume is. Most car audio mids aren't designed for use in sealed enclosures anyway. That leads me to what we can do.

well the components are IB as i recall, i may be wrong though but they are focal K2 165KR if you want to look at them yourself. i know i cant 100% seal the panel, but i know i can isolate the back wave to prevent cancellation at least.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-sxrU7BsuN2I/s_091165KR/Focal-K2-Power-165KR.html

The most important step is getting a layer of MLV on the inner skin. This won't perfectly seal the plane the speaker is mounted to but it will acoustically isolate the front and back of the speaker. This prevents cancellation. It also puts the back wave output behind the barrier. If you can't hear it, you don't really care what it does inside the door. This is good since it is virtually impossible to absorb or change the path of sound in the middle frequencies with the space available inside a vehicle door.

sounds like a plan. so basically MLV plays more of an important role in midbass quality than the CLD? well assuming the sheetmetal doesnt resonate.

To get the best performance out of the MLV, you'll need to decouple it from the inner skin, to which the MLV is attached, and more to decouple the MLV from the trim panel. The ideal is Inner Skin / CCF / MLV / CCF / Trim Panel.

now i know i am a noob, but that setup sounds thick, to me, at least sounds too thick to fit behind the door panel. of course you probably know what your talking about but at least that what comes to mind. i suppose i cut out holes where the panel clips go in correct? if not i see the panel having a gap when i go clip the panel back on.

A very cool addition is a layer of CCF and MLV on the outer skin. This blocks a little more noise entry, might present a better boundary interface than plain steel, but the real reason to do it is because it makes it harder to hear your mids from outside of the truck. With a fully treated vehicle, you can listen to music at much higher volumes without attracting attention to yourself. I've thought I was going to be ticketed a few times but remembered that nobody outside the car can really hear this. My girlfriend told me she knew I had pulled into the driveway because the floor inside the house was shaking but she couldn't hear any music. Very pimp, almost literally.

For my truck at least, i can play my system full tilt and have absolutely NO bass coming from the vehicle with the windows up. now once i amp the mids i am sure i could probably hear them from the outside. not sure if i will do this because i really dont blast my stereo all the time, if i do, its on the highway or away from people. i have respect for neighborhoods and while at a stoplight (not saying you dont).

Butyl rope is really only useful if you have side intrusion prevention beams inside the doors, or plan to use it when mounting speakers. It's excellent between a mounting ring and sheet metal. When you bolt it down, you seal air leaks and create a vibration damper in place. I have a 10" sub mounted to the rear deck in my Civic in an Infinite Baffle configuration. The rear deck wasn't flat enough so I built a leveling platform out of fiberglass. Then I cut a mounting plate out of 1/2" MDF. Plate goes on top of fiberglass, both get bolted to the rear deck. I put EBR between the sheet metal and FG and between the FG and MDF. Bolted it down and it is extremely solid. One guy with blow through from a box in the bed of his pickup put it under the box. Apparently stopped the bed from rattling as it had done before. Pretty cool stuff if you have a use for it.

looks like i will pick up some butyl rope anyways, i could use them for the factory door pods for sure and other applications. the stuff sounds very versatile.

Thanks for the insight, feels like i am learning already!

Edited June 30, 2011 by beandip

[Rudeboy 152]

The outer skin is what you think it is - the painted exterior panel. You want to treat it for resonance. The bond between the butyl adhesive and sheet metal is impervious to moisture. A similar material is used prevent corrosion of petro pipelines.

The barrier layer is thick, possibly up to 3/8". You need to cut small holes to allow clips and anything else - actuator rods, wires, cables, etc. that needs to pass from one side to the other. Getting this to fit is the trickiest part of a project like this. Takes time but worth the effort.

Adding a barrier to both the inner and outer skin is over the top. I don't suggest it for most applications.

A useful feature of the EBR is that you can stretch it to any thickness you need. When covering large flat areas, I stretch it out and squiggle it over the surface.

[Beandip 3]

Thanks a ton don. I ordered my sundown amp for my components Thursday. I figure I might as well see what kind of resonance problems I might have with the amp installed before ordering some deadener. That way I can for sure deal with any vibrations or rattles that come up when amped.

[burko 6]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get a bit of advice from you. I drive a 98 K1500 pickup, and I run 1 18" Fi BTL. Obviously, I'm getting some really bad rattling from, well, all over. I've read around and I've come to the conclusion that you are, by far, the best at what you do, so I've come to ask for your advice. Have you ever worked on these extended cabs before?

I'm looking to go the whole 9 yards with this sound deadening setup. I'm hoping to eliminate all rattling from the door, rear wall, and ceiling. That being said, flex isn't much of an issue; I'd rather have minimal rattling than minimal flex.

If you need any more information, please tell me. I hate to be the guy that asks, "Hey, what should I put in my car?", but I'm a complete noob when it comes to this stuff, and I'd really like to get an opinion straight from the source rather than guessing on the materials I need through research.

If you could possibly help me out and give me a general idea of what price I would be looking at for achieving my goals, I would really appreciate it.

**Also sent as PM. Not sure if he checks his or not.

[Rudeboy 152]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get a bit of advice from you. I drive a 98 K1500 pickup, and I run 1 18" Fi BTL. Obviously, I'm getting some really bad rattling from, well, all over. I've read around and I've come to the conclusion that you are, by far, the best at what you do, so I've come to ask for your advice. Have you ever worked on these extended cabs before?

I'm looking to go the whole 9 yards with this sound deadening setup. I'm hoping to eliminate all rattling from the door, rear wall, and ceiling. That being said, flex isn't much of an issue; I'd rather have minimal rattling than minimal flex.

If you need any more information, please tell me. I hate to be the guy that asks, "Hey, what should I put in my car?", but I'm a complete noob when it comes to this stuff, and I'd really like to get an opinion straight from the source rather than guessing on the materials I need through research.

If you could possibly help me out and give me a general idea of what price I would be looking at for achieving my goals, I would really appreciate it.

**Also sent as PM. Not sure if he checks his or not.

Do you mean that the sheet metal is flexing and you don't care or the sheet metal isn't flexing? What sort of sound pressure are you generating?

[burko 6]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get a bit of advice from you. I drive a 98 K1500 pickup, and I run 1 18" Fi BTL. Obviously, I'm getting some really bad rattling from, well, all over. I've read around and I've come to the conclusion that you are, by far, the best at what you do, so I've come to ask for your advice. Have you ever worked on these extended cabs before?

I'm looking to go the whole 9 yards with this sound deadening setup. I'm hoping to eliminate all rattling from the door, rear wall, and ceiling. That being said, flex isn't much of an issue; I'd rather have minimal rattling than minimal flex.

If you need any more information, please tell me. I hate to be the guy that asks, "Hey, what should I put in my car?", but I'm a complete noob when it comes to this stuff, and I'd really like to get an opinion straight from the source rather than guessing on the materials I need through research.

If you could possibly help me out and give me a general idea of what price I would be looking at for achieving my goals, I would really appreciate it.

**Also sent as PM. Not sure if he checks his or not.

Do you mean that the sheet metal is flexing and you don't care or the sheet metal isn't flexing? What sort of sound pressure are you generating?

The sheet metal is flexing, but I'm more concerned about the noise coming from it than the flexing itself.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Don,

Looking at the CCF and MLV to install in my 1993 Honda Civic DX front doors. What I would like to know is what the difference is between your CCF and Raamaudio Ensolite? Reason I ask is that the Ensolite is peel and stick and would speed up installation and reduce one step.

Thanks

~Curt

[Rudeboy 152]

Don,

Looking at the CCF and MLV to install in my 1993 Honda Civic DX front doors. What I would like to know is what the difference is between your CCF and Raamaudio Ensolite? Reason I ask is that the Ensolite is peel and stick and would speed up installation and reduce one step.

Thanks

~Curt

The main physical difference is that mine has a much smaller cell structure. This give it better resistance to compression set (flattening out). No offense meant to Rick, but peel & stick CCF is firmly in the fish/bicycle zone. You don't need to glue CCF to the floor since the MLV, carpet, seats, trim and gravity will hold everything in place. There's a huge advantage to being able to remove this stuff and put it back in when you need to get under it to do that thing you never thought you'd need to do.

I use Velcro Strips on vertical surfaces like this:

This lets you fit the MLV first and then come back and add the CCF. This is a huge advantage with doors where making small adjustments in registration is essential. It also makes it possible to remove everything, should the need arise.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Thanks Don

Need to measure my doors and then get an order together with SDS products.

[JPx7 1]

Operation make the panel above my trunk stop vibrating..

At this point I am only worried about the panel vibrating. I want to go with SDS products, what will I need and how much of it? I am not looking to go all out at this point; I just want to fix this and then I will deaden everything some other time when I have enough money to do it.

Here is a pic from inside of the trunk.

Thanks

-JP