* Ask Don of SDS *

[lightingman117 8]

Hey Don,

First, thanks for the great product got it all in my car already can tell a world of difference even without anything but my seat in (large build ). Secondly, I was wondering how exactly I should seal off my door for the midbass? I've heard of using sheet metal/aluminum, silicone and metal screws or fiberglass for the large holes. But what about all the little ones? I have modeling clay right now but it's winter and just in the sun I can see it start to get soft. Once it's in the Florida sun I know the inside of the car will be 140+ easily while the sheet metal will be 160-180+ easily. How did you do the Denim's Mazda's doors? I tried a link you posted somewhere about deadening doors but it doesn't work/can't find it.

Thank you for saving my life with those magic number fingers you have!!

-Nathan

[Rudeboy 152]

First, you just have to accept that doors can not be perfectly sealed. Even if the inner skin is perfect, you'll still get leaks around the glass and through the drains in the bottom. Also, MLV on the inner skin does most of this work for you. I still build access hole covers, but I'm not sure it isn't a belt and suspenders operation that I just do out of habit. I'm certain it won't hurt but I can't swear it is more effective than MLV alone.

I'd use duct seal instead of modeling clay. It's much less likely to melt in the heat.

[lightingman117 8]

Got another question for you. What do you suggest for bumper/trunk rattle? Expanding foam? I know it requires movement between components. To stop the rattle you must isolate one or the other or make it more ridged. I know my bumper is rattling a little bit but thats not the big noise producer. The larger of the two is the trunk, I can't find any movement other than between the lid and body. Maybe on the Cavaliers the stop light bar moves against the trunk lid not sure. Any ideas? I can get pics if you need them.

Thanks so much!

-Nathan

[Infinite913 381]

Im contemplating in getting a 1998 expedetion and I was curious on about what I would have to do to deaden it properly. I want to do it once and do it right!

[Rudeboy 152]

Got another question for you. What do you suggest for bumper/trunk rattle? Expanding foam? I know it requires movement between components. To stop the rattle you must isolate one or the other or make it more ridged. I know my bumper is rattling a little bit but thats not the big noise producer. The larger of the two is the trunk, I can't find any movement other than between the lid and body. Maybe on the Cavaliers the stop light bar moves against the trunk lid not sure. Any ideas? I can get pics if you need them.

Thanks so much!

-Nathan

Pics are always good. Expanding foam has its uses, but I try to stay away from it because it is pretty much irreversible. If I've learned one thing in my years of doing this it's that no matter how much you think you'll never have to go back into an area after treatment, you will.

It's probably not your bumper itself that's rattling, it's probably the bumper cover rattling against the functional bumper or another trim panel. Bumper covers are pretty easy to remove. Taking it off and adding some CCF where it's making contact should solve the problem. This is also a perfect example of where I wouldn't shoot expanding foam. Suppose somebody rear ends you and just damages the cover. Insurance will pay for the repair until you take it to the body shop and they realize the cover is permanently glued to car.

If the trunk lid is flapping, you may be able to tighten the latch. If it's doing this as a way of venting excessive pressure, you'll have a hard time finding a solution.

For the rest, you're back to hunting them down, one by one.

[Rudeboy 152]

Im contemplating in getting a 1998 expedetion and I was curious on about what I would have to do to deaden it properly. I want to do it once and do it right!

I know it's not much of an answer, but this really depends on what you are trying to achieve. Need more about your goals.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Ever try applying MLV to the inside of a computer case? Dynamat has Xtreme deadener kits for computers but I'm pretty sure a barrier product would work far better for this application. Thoughts?

[CrownVic 15]

Don,

I have a problem with my door panels rattling, just the plastic panels, not the metal door skin. Would I approach this the same way as a metal panel by applying the tiles to the plastic?

[Shogen 325]

Ever try applying MLV to the inside of a computer case? Dynamat has Xtreme deadener kits for computers but I'm pretty sure a barrier product would work far better for this application. Thoughts?

I added a thin layer of a rubber mat, I think it was pond liner.... Then I put some foam type padding to eliminate some of the whine coming from my case... Problem is I have sooo many vents that it didn't help a whole lot... But my PSU sounds less...

[Rudeboy 152]

Ever try applying MLV to the inside of a computer case? Dynamat has Xtreme deadener kits for computers but I'm pretty sure a barrier product would work far better for this application. Thoughts?

I haven't. I've been using notebooks exclusively for a few years now. I still have a shelf full of Linux servers with steel cases I used to use for development, but they haven't seen power in years. I did use vibration damper on them and it helped quite a bit. A lot of the noise you hear is transmitted through the structure of the case.

The problem here is that most of what you hear are the fans and hard drives, t a lesser extent. Lining the cases with a barrier wouldn't help with the fans that exchange air outside the case. You'd get the best result by building a larger enclosure for the computer, either out of a dense material or something lined with a barrier, then build a large baffled air exchange with maybe a large slow fan. It'd be a lot of work, but I'd expect you to be able to get very close to silence.

Something much easier that can sometimes make a very big difference is isolating the case from whatever it is sitting on.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

More importantly, a barrier's performance depends on how much it increases the mass of what is already there - you need to double mass to gain an audible improvement. Adding 1 lb/ft² to sheet metal that starts around 1/2 lb/ft² does that. Any idea how thick the application of a liquid product would have to be to get to 1 lb/ft²? I don't remember, but it think it is 6mm or so, roughly 1/4" inch. I can't even guess how many cans of an aerosol it would take to coat the entire underside of even a small car to that thickness. You would need to cover the entire underside since sound will bend around a more difficult barrier to follow an easier path.

Line-X is a great choice for undercoating, but they're rather hush hush about the Weight DFT

[Deto1992 5]

Hey Don, Im in desperate need of some deadening materials for my trunk. Ive decided on purchasing a bunch of the cld tiles but I am not sure how many I would need and whether the tiles are the only materials I will need to successfully deaden my trunk. I know it is a fairly hard situation for you to help me with since deadening is usually vehicle specific but I would much rather purchase all the materials at once rather than make several small purchases.I would appreciate any info you could give me that will help me wth my purchase.

[Rudeboy 152]

Hey Don, Im in desperate need of some deadening materials for my trunk. Ive decided on purchasing a bunch of the cld tiles but I am not sure how many I would need and whether the tiles are the only materials I will need to successfully deaden my trunk. I know it is a fairly hard situation for you to help me with since deadening is usually vehicle specific but I would much rather purchase all the materials at once rather than make several small purchases.I would appreciate any info you could give me that will help me wth my purchase.

Great opportunity to discuss treating trunks. What problems are you trying to resolve?

[Deto1992 5]

Hey Don, Im in desperate need of some deadening materials for my trunk. Ive decided on purchasing a bunch of the cld tiles but I am not sure how many I would need and whether the tiles are the only materials I will need to successfully deaden my trunk. I know it is a fairly hard situation for you to help me with since deadening is usually vehicle specific but I would much rather purchase all the materials at once rather than make several small purchases.I would appreciate any info you could give me that will help me wth my purchase.

Great opportunity to discuss treating trunks. What problems are you trying to resolve?

As far as I know, the only problem I have is my trunk lid resonating. I dont know if you are familiar with this particular type of trunk but I have two bars running from side to side which are involved in the lid opening so I cannot remove them. They are small metal bars (diameter 1/2" tops) which are creating most of the noise. In addition, the actually trunk lid is rattling quite a bit. I planned on lining 25% of the the trunk lid with Cld tiles like you recommend but I am not sure of the right solution to deaden the two bars. Any help is appreciated !

[Rudeboy 152]

Hey Don, Im in desperate need of some deadening materials for my trunk. Ive decided on purchasing a bunch of the cld tiles but I am not sure how many I would need and whether the tiles are the only materials I will need to successfully deaden my trunk. I know it is a fairly hard situation for you to help me with since deadening is usually vehicle specific but I would much rather purchase all the materials at once rather than make several small purchases.I would appreciate any info you could give me that will help me wth my purchase.

Great opportunity to discuss treating trunks. What problems are you trying to resolve?

As far as I know, the only problem I have is my trunk lid resonating. I dont know if you are familiar with this particular type of trunk but I have two bars running from side to side which are involved in the lid opening so I cannot remove them. They are small metal bars (diameter 1/2" tops) which are creating most of the noise. In addition, the actually trunk lid is rattling quite a bit. I planned on lining 25% of the the trunk lid with Cld tiles like you recommend but I am not sure of the right solution to deaden the two bars. Any help is appreciated !

You can take the springs out and replace them with gas shocks. It's fun, but probably more than you want to do. There's a good chance that they are rattling against each other where they cross. If that's the case, wrapping one in a thin layer of foam should take care of it.

What is the trunk lid rattling against? If it's the lower layer of sheet metal rattling against the outer skin, a few dabs of RTV silicone will keep them from making contact.

[Deto1992 5]

Hey Don, Im in desperate need of some deadening materials for my trunk. Ive decided on purchasing a bunch of the cld tiles but I am not sure how many I would need and whether the tiles are the only materials I will need to successfully deaden my trunk. I know it is a fairly hard situation for you to help me with since deadening is usually vehicle specific but I would much rather purchase all the materials at once rather than make several small purchases.I would appreciate any info you could give me that will help me wth my purchase.

Great opportunity to discuss treating trunks. What problems are you trying to resolve?

As far as I know, the only problem I have is my trunk lid resonating. I dont know if you are familiar with this particular type of trunk but I have two bars running from side to side which are involved in the lid opening so I cannot remove them. They are small metal bars (diameter 1/2" tops) which are creating most of the noise. In addition, the actually trunk lid is rattling quite a bit. I planned on lining 25% of the the trunk lid with Cld tiles like you recommend but I am not sure of the right solution to deaden the two bars. Any help is appreciated !

You can take the springs out and replace them with gas shocks. It's fun, but probably more than you want to do. There's a good chance that they are rattling against each other where they cross. If that's the case, wrapping one in a thin layer of foam should take care of it.

What is the trunk lid rattling against? If it's the lower layer of sheet metal rattling against the outer skin, a few dabs of RTV silicone will keep them from making contact.

Its definitely rattling, against what I do not know for sure. However, I do not think the bars are making contact because there is about an inch of separation between the two. I will have to try and figure out where exactly the rattling is coming from; its just a bit difficult because to know for sure because the rattling decreases significantly when the trunk is open.

[Rudeboy 152]

Hey Don, Im in desperate need of some deadening materials for my trunk. Ive decided on purchasing a bunch of the cld tiles but I am not sure how many I would need and whether the tiles are the only materials I will need to successfully deaden my trunk. I know it is a fairly hard situation for you to help me with since deadening is usually vehicle specific but I would much rather purchase all the materials at once rather than make several small purchases.I would appreciate any info you could give me that will help me wth my purchase.

Great opportunity to discuss treating trunks. What problems are you trying to resolve?

As far as I know, the only problem I have is my trunk lid resonating. I dont know if you are familiar with this particular type of trunk but I have two bars running from side to side which are involved in the lid opening so I cannot remove them. They are small metal bars (diameter 1/2" tops) which are creating most of the noise. In addition, the actually trunk lid is rattling quite a bit. I planned on lining 25% of the the trunk lid with Cld tiles like you recommend but I am not sure of the right solution to deaden the two bars. Any help is appreciated !

You can take the springs out and replace them with gas shocks. It's fun, but probably more than you want to do. There's a good chance that they are rattling against each other where they cross. If that's the case, wrapping one in a thin layer of foam should take care of it.

What is the trunk lid rattling against? If it's the lower layer of sheet metal rattling against the outer skin, a few dabs of RTV silicone will keep them from making contact.

Its definitely rattling, against what I do not know for sure. However, I do not think the bars are making contact because there is about an inch of separation between the two. I will have to try and figure out where exactly the rattling is coming from; its just a bit difficult because to know for sure because the rattling decreases significantly when the trunk is open.

That is sort of tough since you almost need to be inside the trunk with the lid closed. Those springs should be under tension, opened or closed. I'll bet you can figure it out by wiggling them by hand. Depending on the actual problem, another possible solution might be to slide vinyl tubing over the rods. Home Depot sells a variety of diameters that you can buy by the foot in the plumbing department. Be very careful if you remove the springs to do this - they are under tension and can do weird things when you release them, like smack you in the face.

[Deto1992 5]

haha ill try not to get smacked in the face then. Maybe ill drop the back seats down and try to locate the noise more specifically.

[Reallunacy 0]

Hey Don,

I asked this on another forum, but to no avail. Is there an objective test to compare one deadener to another. For instance, a test that actually results in numbers. I just prefer to see real data as opposed to people saying they like one brand over another.

I read over this thread and with the exception of a couple minor pieces of information I surprisingly knew most of what you stated (darn that reflecting engine sounds and the really dense floors). It is always great to see someone that really knows their product and is willing to give a straight answer.

[Rudeboy 152]

ASTM E756 is the standard. The problem is that it has been abused to hell in this market. One well known company is known to have fudged the test. Others have just fabricated results. Nobody wants to make their results public since legitimate test results would look terrible compared to what is floating around out there. The only way to get apples to apples would be to submit all of the samples for which you are interested in seeing results to a lab for testing. Problem is that the least expensive testing I've found is still $600 per sample.

When I was testing and reviewing products I had the idea of organizing something like this. Each vendor would submit a sample, pay for the test and authorize the lab to send a copy of the results to me to publish. Nobody was interested. That's understandable since allowing the vendor to supply the sample leaves a lot of room for manipulation.

[juan 1]

Don,I have a problem with my door panels rattling, just the plastic panels, not the metal door skin. Would I approach this the same way as a metal panel by applying the tiles to the plastic?

Would like info on this awell.

[Rudeboy 152]

Ever try applying MLV to the inside of a computer case? Dynamat has Xtreme deadener kits for computers but I'm pretty sure a barrier product would work far better for this application. Thoughts?

I added a thin layer of a rubber mat, I think it was pond liner.... Then I put some foam type padding to eliminate some of the whine coming from my case... Problem is I have sooo many vents that it didn't help a whole lot... But my PSU sounds less...

That's the problem with computer cases - doesn't matter how much of a barrier you create inside, the noise is just going to come out with the air transfer. Fans are usually the biggest noise makers anyway.

Putting vibration damper on the case can help. Decoupling the case from what it's sitting on can help. If you really want to build a barrier, you'd need to build an enclosure around the case and build some sort of baffled air transfer that can move a lot of air quietly.

[Rudeboy 152]

Don,

I have a problem with my door panels rattling, just the plastic panels, not the metal door skin. Would I approach this the same way as a metal panel by applying the tiles to the plastic?

That depends what they are rattling against. If they are rattling against the inner skin, a layer of CCF will stop it - doesn't even need to be full layer, a piece here and there will probably take care of it.

If it's one part of the trim panel rattling against another part of the trim panel, you've either got to stop the pieces from moving or stop them from making contact. A rattle is always two or more hard objects making intermittent contact because one or more of them is vibrating. The key to stopping any rattle is identifying those object(s). In most cases, once you've done that, the solution will be simple.

[hondakilla98 29]

I'm going to be installing some audiowrap deadener, mlv and ccf in my 96 Cadillac eldorado.. I'll be covering the floorpan from firewall to the trunk, both doors, rear quarters from the back of the door to the trunk, and I'll also cover the rear wheel wells. My question is about behind the back seat and the rear deck lid. I'll have two sa10's ported in the trunk. I plan on removing the factory 6x9's in the rear deck to try to get more bass into the cabin. I'm not putting any mlv in the trunk. So now I'm wondering if I should mlv the back seat and rear deck, and if I should remove the rear speakers or not.

Another question is how many sq ft of mlv should I get? I have an email in to Don about this question as well.

Edited March 20, 2011 by hondakilla98

[Rudeboy 152]

I'm going to be installing some audiowrap deadener, mlv and ccf in my 96 Cadillac eldorado.. I'll be covering the floorpan from firewall to the trunk, both doors, rear quarters from the back of the door to the trunk, and I'll also cover the rear wheel wells. My question is about behind the back seat and the rear deck lid. I'll have two sa10's ported in the trunk. I plan on removing the factory 6x9's in the rear deck to try to get more bass into the cabin. I'm not putting any mlv in the trunk. So now I'm wondering if I should mlv the back seat and rear deck, and if I should remove the rear speakers or not.

For trunk noise, you have the choice of either treating the trunk itself or going behind the back seat and over the rear deck. I don't think the second idea is workable if there will be sub(s) in the trunk. I look at subs in a trunk as being analogous to having an HT setup - with the sub in your neighbor's house. Adding a barrier between the trunk and passenger compartment just makes this worse. You want as much sound as possible to travel into the passenger compartment. You wouldn't have to treat the entire trunk since the box itself will make a pretty good barrier.