OScope question

[Ktownmazda6 2]

If this specific question has been covered, or if this is posted in the wrong place, I apologize. I have not seen it yet on my research.

I purchased an armdso nano O-Scope at a good deal, and figured I could maybe use it to tune my amp finally. I know the dmm method of tuning, but I figured why not try it with my oscope. The only thing is, my knowledge is non existent with electronics ironically. How would you tune it with a 1 probe x1-x10 with an alligator ground clip? I assume the probe just goes in the positive part of the amp to tune it, and the alligator goes on a ground source? The one I purchased does not have a 3.5mm jack with the black and red probes. It is a single x1-x10 probe.

How do I tune it with just one probe like that? I understand how to tune one, when you have TWO probes (blk/red), but how when I just have one?

Specs if needed:

Im running a mb quart onyx at 1000rms for my loaded 15" fi ssd. needless to say, I am hooked on the bass, and would like to tune it lol. gain is all the way down, as I never had a good way to tune it.

Thanks for the future help, it means a lot, as not all of us are as knowledgeable as some of you guys! That's why I am here!

Edited January 11, 2011 by Ktownmazda6

[CrazyKenKid 64]

hey you have to hook the oscope in parallel to your load! (load = sub) you can hook this probe to either the terminals on the sub or the terminals on the amp!

and your probe looks like this?

also put the probe on 10x

then turn your gain up until the sine wave looks clipped

also be sure to tune with a 50 or 60HZ tone!

make sense?

[///M5 2,833]

Unless you are competing it really isn't worth spending the money. What you can't notice (ie hear the difference of) does not need to be maximized.

Not only do you need an oscope to verify you aren't clipping, but also the thought of where you want that to be on the dial and what level the output source (in this case sine wave) you will use. 0dB is worst case, but conveniently no cd's are recorded that way so it is sort of strange to set your amps up with it.

Again for burping notes different story, but then you are using a mic and not your ear.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

Unless you are competing it really isn't worth spending the money. What you can't notice (ie hear the difference of) does not need to be maximized.

Not only do you need an oscope to verify you aren't clipping, but also the thought of where you want that to be on the dial and what level the output source (in this case sine wave) you will use. 0dB is worst case, but conveniently no cd's are recorded that way so it is sort of strange to set your amps up with it.

Again for burping notes different story, but then you are using a mic and not your ear.

never looked at it like that...

I used one because my buddy owes one and I thought it would be cool to use one lol

[CrazyKenKid 64]

wow I just looked on ebay for the Oscilloscope and it is around 45$ lol nice price! let me know how it works i maybe pick one up for work! lol

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280609890955&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_3774wt_905

although all the ones on ebay are from like china so you pay like 30$ for shipping! just noticed that!

[CrazyKenKid 64]

problem solved OP?

[Ktownmazda6 2]

Yes the one pictured abve is similar to mine. I do have it on x10 setting.

Thanks guys! Problem solved for the most part!

However, I still have a question. Being that I wire it parallel, that means the large probe up top could just go into the pos. of the amp, and the black alligator would be grounded to something? I still do not follow. I know how to read and tune simply with an oscope with a typical red and black probes, but not when there is only one probe as pictured above.

M5, you are right I also didnt thin of it that way. I am a newcomer to stereos. I have just gotten hooked on them, and I try to soak as much info in as possible. Its just hard for me to even have a hobby as I work so much. (Graphic designer).

Annnddd when I am not working, I play racing games

Or wii with the wife. haha.

I do try to keep in on the loop here too though.

So much to do, so little time!!

[CrazyKenKid 64]

hey i forgot about this topic lol!

yes the big probe goes on the positive terminal of the amp

and the aligator one (black) goes on the negative part of the amp!

and all connections are made on the output side of the amplifier (where you hook the sub up to)

[Ktownmazda6 2]

hey i forgot about this topic lol!

yes the big probe goes on the positive terminal of the amp

and the aligator one (black) goes on the negative part of the amp!

and all connections are made on the output side of the amplifier (where you hook the sub up to)

Sweet deal! Sounds easy enough. The only thing that may not work on my actual amp is the fact that the alligator does not fit in the terminal. It may, but Im at work so I cant check cuz my oscope is at home >:-( lol. I will find out tonight and let you guys know!! Thanks for all the help!

[Dutchie. 10]

hey i forgot about this topic lol!

yes the big probe goes on the positive terminal of the amp

and the aligator one (black) goes on the negative part of the amp!

and all connections are made on the output side of the amplifier (where you hook the sub up to)

Sweet deal! Sounds easy enough. The only thing that may not work on my actual amp is the fact that the alligator does not fit in the terminal. It may, but Im at work so I cant check cuz my oscope is at home >:-( lol. I will find out tonight and let you guys know!! Thanks for all the help!

My guess is that it does not need to fit IN the terminal, but get a solid connection with the (-) portion of the amplifier.

[NB50 206]

If your going to spend the time to set the gains with a scope, why would you only do it at one frequency?

[Ktownmazda6 2]

If your going to spend the time to set the gains with a scope, why would you only do it at one frequency?

Actually I was going to attempt a type of long term sweep if you will. Like maybe a cd with a lot of frequencies, and spend a lot of time doing trial and error until I have it to where 90% is clipping free. Maybe its a waste of time, but pointless or not, I am trying to do more things to get an idea of the stereo world. I want to learn more doing various things hands on. It may be a piece of cake, but I want to see it and do it myself just for the experience.

Does that make sense?

As I said before, I am a newcomer to aftermarket stereos, any advice/knowledge on this is greatly appreciated.

If its really that pointless, should I tune it the dmm method then, or just keep my gain at 0? My input sensitivity is matched properly with my car head unit, I have no eq's, or even my gain up. The head unit is at -3 of 6 on bass (factory head unit). I just figured I would test to see if I could squeeze more out of my system, which I think is possible. I keep it at -3 cuz the factory head unit sends some dirty signals and puts out terribly on the rear channels. I just dont have the cash for a new one at the moment

Edited January 14, 2011 by Ktownmazda6

[NB50 206]

I've set my gain with a scope before and just because you don't have clipping a 50hz doesn't mean it won't be clipping at 30hz. I just made a bunch of tones in 1 hz increments from 25hz to 60hz and went threw them adjusting as I went. Truthfully after setting the gain with a scope it was much easier to set it by ear. If anything it is worth the experience I suppose.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

hey if the alligator doesn't fit in the terminal simply put it over the screw! as long as it is touching the negative terminal on the amp you are good to go! same goes with the positive terminal.

and if you can't seem to figure it out or something is wrong simple place a piece of wire say 2inch long stripped at both ends and then put one in the amp and one on the probes and you are good to go!

[Ktownmazda6 2]

I've set my gain with a scope before and just because you don't have clipping a 50hz doesn't mean it won't be clipping at 30hz. I just made a bunch of tones in 1 hz increments from 25hz to 60hz and went threw them adjusting as I went. Truthfully after setting the gain with a scope it was much easier to set it by ear. If anything it is worth the experience I suppose.

Yeah man thats EXACTLY what I was going to do, as I have learned by searching that you can clip at any given frequency as opposed to another.. Id say I have a pretty good idea of what clipping sounds like, but Ill be honest to say that Im not 100% sure. Id say m 80% sure I know what clipping sounds like. I could very well tune it by ear, but do not trust my own judgement for that case just quite yet. Until I get more familiar with sounds, I was planning on doing this for the first time, and in the future, we will go from there. lol.

Thanks for the advice/opinions

CrazyKenKid: Hey man thats a great Idea, thanks for the tip! I was wondering if that would work, thats pretty cool!

Theres vids of how clipping sounds, but I cant say I have heard it in person loud and clear.

[///M5 2,833]

I've set my gain with a scope before and just because you don't have clipping a 50hz doesn't mean it won't be clipping at 30hz.

It better not be.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

I've set my gain with a scope before and just because you don't have clipping a 50hz doesn't mean it won't be clipping at 30hz.

It better not be.

lol better not be

[NB50 206]

lol better not be

Why don't you explain to me why it shouldn't.

[///M5 2,833]

lol better not be

Why don't you explain to me why it shouldn't.

A non piece of shit amplifier should be linear. Why would you think differently?

[Ktownmazda6 2]

I learn something new everyday... I will have to do research ont his Linear thing you speak of!

Edited January 15, 2011 by Ktownmazda6

[Ktownmazda6 2]

Well, I did everything properly (or so I think), and it is saddening to know that the factory mazda 6 head unit, or more so my amp, with matched input, gain all the way down, and bass at -3 out of 6 would clip at VOLUME 12!!!

I have always debated getting a new head unit, but they look so tacky on my specific vehicle.. This though... This may be the nail on the coffin.

I cannot bear to reduce my bass to something that weak. Ive been playing it at 12 this whole time thinking there is NO WAY it could possibly be clipping. I did it intentionally until I could tune it. I was rather shocked that it was clipping at volume 12.. The head unit goes to 33. I mean I know its a factory head unit, but still... Thats ridiculous.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

oscope doesn't lie! lol

[Ktownmazda6 2]

Well somethings lying to me!! lol. I retested it, cuz it just didnt seem right, and now it can go all the way up to 18 before clipping!!! Am I missing something here?

I mean I can CLEARLY tell when the waveform starts to square out. Could the power wire coming off have anything to do with it? After the first time I tested it, at some point I noticed the big red power wire came loose for the amp. I thought the amp would not power at all in that situation? Am I right? It may have come off just after I tested it, im not sure. But anyways, I find it rather odd that I can go to 18 now according to the oscope. No settings have been touched at all on anything since I tested it last time.. Its mind boggling for a guy like me.

[Ktownmazda6 2]

Update for you guys:

Problem solved. Im an idiot and forgot that I adjusted the bass to -5 instead of -3 at some point on my HU. I now have it set at -4, with my gain up maybe 15%, to where it goes up to 14 volume without clipping. :-) Thats about loud enough for my ears, but I still want more bass B-). Maybe one day when the budget can afford it!!

Thanks for everyones help and input, it is greatly appreciated. I would rather not stay a forever in this forum, and you guys help expand my knowledge! That, and google.. lol.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

congrats you got it all figured out!