Fosgate Power 2500BD vs Sundown SAZ-2500?

[eggyhustles 33]

You already have the rockfords..use them

I do, but both together would be too much power for them right? I suppose I could Multimeter the AC voltage output and convert it to watts output and put each amp around 2000 watts or so.....

Although..... I could probably sell one of the 2500s i have and a get a new SAZ-3500 for it.... or even a SAZ-4500......

That also sounds great! lol

Use one?

Using the sundown would gain you what 3db? if that? Not to mention any power after they reach xmax is just heat. You don't need to give a sub 239482349 watts for it to perform well.

No, 99% of the power put into the woofer is heat, why are you talking about xmax?

Any more power that's given to the sub after it's already reached it's limit is just extra heat, no?

[BIGDROCH 1]

Use one?

Using the sundown would gain you what 3db? if that? Not to mention any power after they reach xmax is just heat. You don't need to give a sub 239482349 watts for it to perform well.

No, 99% of the power put into the woofer is heat, why are you talking about xmax?

Any more power that's given to the sub after it's already reached it's limit is just extra heat, no?

......distortion...... then woofer death...

[CrazyKenKid 64]

OP have you seen this link yet?

[Duran 387]

You already have the rockfords..use them

I do, but both together would be too much power for them right? I suppose I could Multimeter the AC voltage output and convert it to watts output and put each amp around 2000 watts or so.....

Although..... I could probably sell one of the 2500s i have and a get a new SAZ-3500 for it.... or even a SAZ-4500......

That also sounds great! lol

Use one?

Using the sundown would gain you what 3db? if that? Not to mention any power after they reach xmax is just heat. You don't need to give a sub 239482349 watts for it to perform well.

No, 99% of the power put into the woofer is heat, why are you talking about xmax?

Any more power that's given to the sub after it's already reached it's limit is just extra heat, no?

Any more power after xmax and parts start failing, tinsels snap, spiders rip, depending on xmech, coils smash. None of those are caused by heat.

[eggyhustles 33]

You already have the rockfords..use them

I do, but both together would be too much power for them right? I suppose I could Multimeter the AC voltage output and convert it to watts output and put each amp around 2000 watts or so.....

Although..... I could probably sell one of the 2500s i have and a get a new SAZ-3500 for it.... or even a SAZ-4500......

That also sounds great! lol

Use one?

Using the sundown would gain you what 3db? if that? Not to mention any power after they reach xmax is just heat. You don't need to give a sub 239482349 watts for it to perform well.

No, 99% of the power put into the woofer is heat, why are you talking about xmax?

Any more power that's given to the sub after it's already reached it's limit is just extra heat, no?

Any more power after xmax and parts start failing, tinsels snap, spiders rip, depending on xmech, coils smash. None of those are caused by heat.

Yeah, that's mechanical limit

I confused that with thermal.

My bad

[Impious 1,476]

No No, I know that. My thought was If I use more power then i need then I would de-tune them and it would prevent them from running hot with the benefit of cleaner output. Me and Distortion are not friends lmao!

The difference in efficiency between full power output & lower power output levels for a given Class D amplifier is generally not very much. Obviously the "heat" would be less than at full power simply because the output is lower, but it would be the same as a lower rated power output amplifier of equivalent efficiency. But efficiency wise, there won't be a whole lot of difference. One thing that would more significantly improve efficiency would be to run the amplifier(s) at a higher impedance......i.e. a 2ohm load on two 2500w amplifiers would be more efficient than a 1ohm load on a 5kw amplifier (assuming the amplifiers are relatively similar in efficiency levels at similar impedances to begin with).

The distortion difference would be 100% inaudible.

The one benefit you would have in using an amplifier with higher rated power than you intend to use would be higher available headroom, which reduces the risk of clipping on dynamic peaks. How much of a benefit that may or may not be depends on different factors.

I wouldn't worry too much about the birthsheet or bench test. The differences involved at these power levels are going to be inaudible anyways.....unless you plan on hitting the comp circuit. Then it's a little more important.

[Robert 9]

Sorry for my stupidity but this is why I have wanted to run my P1000-1bd at 2ohm rather than 1ohm on two type R 12's

Edited December 16, 2010 by crunkjuice1

[bimmerboy 3]

results from the test?

[BIGDROCH 1]

First I want to say THANK YOU to Arc Audio for taking the time to bench test the RF2500 for me. Their equipment is amazing! They can deliver a constant 1160 AMPs of straight CONTINUOUS POWER!! lol Battery LED needles on the RF2500 never left the full blue! lol. Well, the test turned out better then expected.

To my surprise..... The Power T2500-BD1CP was tested @ 14.4v and put out 3,477 Watts @ 1ohm drawing 306 amps of current. The Amp Put out 4,266 watts but we printed the graph up to 1% THD... It was all dirty signal above that which is pointless. At 12 volts the amp put out 2,614 watts, which was a significant drop in power @ 1% THD. . But All in all I guess it's good to know that if I give it the current it needs its capable of far more then the 2500 watts it was built to put out. The Testing goes along with my belief the Rockford Power Series is are pretty decent amplifiers.

Rockfords birth sheet looks like this....

and the Test that Arc Audio did came out like this....

Edited December 16, 2010 by DROCH CUSTOMS

[bimmerboy 3]

wow great results, hope this changed your mind on whether to keep them or not

[BIGDROCH 1]

wow great results, hope this changed your mind on whether to keep them or not

HAHA! Ya..... I think so! I was going to anyway, but wouldn't mind trying different brands also.

[sundownz 197]

RF Power amps are good quality -- no question.

[BIGDROCH 1]

RF Power amps are good quality -- no question.

Make no mistake.... My Eyes are peeled for the next pre-order.... I'm getting a 3500 or maybe even 4500... no doubt!

[BozzMazzi 1]

I have 2 RF T2500-1BDCP's (@ ~2ohm each) running 4 SD hybrid 18's in my burb, 20ft3 with 240" port box (I didn't build the box) . 6 Kinetik HC2400's, 1 DC 270xp alt for the system, Stock alt for the truck with 2 Optima's under the hood, Big 3 and multiple runs of 1/0 Knuconcepts... gain 1/3 on both amps and only 2 batts (no bass knob) I was able to do legal TL of 149.4 @ 32hz. These amps are sexy for running at ~2ohm and having that much power....

BUT...

I also have SD SAZ-2500d's and I would hands down run SD amps in my vehicle for what they are able to do under a ~2ohm load. My buddy had the exact sub/box set up but 2 SAZ-3500d's at .5ohm and they hit like animals.

For a daily driver it's a no brainer for me to run the T2500BD CP's cuz there was a supposed ~1k watt diff @ ~2ohm between the saz-3500d and the T2500bdcp... But when they were hooked up I was able to see and hear for my self.

Just my 2 cents.

[BozzMazzi 1]

First I want to say THANK YOU to Arc Audio for taking the time to bench test the RF2500 for me. Their equipment is amazing! They can deliver a constant 1160 AMPs of straight CONTINUOUS POWER!! lol Battery LED needles on the RF2500 never left the full blue! lol. Well, the test turned out better then expected.

To my surprise..... The Power T2500-BD1CP was tested @ 14.4v and put out 3,477 Watts @ 1ohm drawing 306 amps of current. The Amp Put out 4,266 watts but we printed the graph up to 1% THD... It was all dirty signal above that which is pointless. At 12 volts the amp put out 2,614 watts, which was a significant drop in power @ 1% THD. . But All in all I guess it's good to know that if I give it the current it needs its capable of far more then the 2500 watts it was built to put out. The Testing goes along with my belief the Rockford Power Series is are pretty decent amplifiers.

Rockfords birth sheet looks like this....

and the Test that Arc Audio did came out like this....

That birth sheet isn't for a CP, the constant powers have ~100 watt diff. between 1ohm and 2ohm as well as in the birth sheet shows the T2500-1bd CP as the model discription.

[BIGDROCH 1]

I have 2 RF T2500-1BDCP's (@ ~2ohm each) running 4 SD hybrid 18's in my burb, 20ft3 with 240" port box (I didn't build the box) . 6 Kinetik HC2400's, 1 DC 270xp alt for the system, Stock alt for the truck with 2 Optima's under the hood, Big 3 and multiple runs of 1/0 Knuconcepts... gain 1/3 on both amps and only 2 batts (no bass knob) I was able to do legal TL of 149.4 @ 32hz. These amps are sexy for running at ~2ohm and having that much power....

BUT...

I also have SD SAZ-2500d's and I would hands down run SD amps in my vehicle for what they are able to do under a ~2ohm load. My buddy had the exact sub/box set up but 2 SAZ-3500d's at .5ohm and they hit like animals.

For a daily driver it's a no brainer for me to run the T2500BD CP's cuz there was a supposed ~1k watt diff @ ~2ohm between the saz-3500d and the T2500bdcp... But when they were hooked up I was able to see and hear for my self.

Just my 2 cents.

Good info... I didn't test the RF T2500-1BD at 2ohm. I intent to use these amps at 1ohm. I want to squeeze every drop I can out of them. Looks like if your woofers or voice coils were wiring to a 1ohm you'd pick up significant power from the RF's. You're losing 1,000 watts a piece on those.....

[///M5 2,833]

CEA-2006 specifications are a joke.

Before accepting ANY validity in the Arc measurements knowing what they used for a load and a distortion analyzer is 100% required. Otherwise that could easily be off by a crap ton.

[gcs8 10]

hear is a 3500 thats been referbed by DB-R for 585$ http://www.db-r.com/sell/store2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67_69_97&products_id=228 get it and get us a birth sheet and tell us what you think.

[BIGDROCH 1]

CEA-2006 specifications are a joke.

Before accepting ANY validity in the Arc measurements knowing what they used for a load and a distortion analyzer is 100% required. Otherwise that could easily be off by a crap ton.

I watched him test a Arc Audio SE4000 also... Pulled 390amps and put out 4100 watts BEFORE..... BEFORE.... and I repeat BEFORE the THD level went above .005! THATS BEFORE IT WENT ABOVE .005% THD. The analyzer they were using was over $40,000 and the power supplies were $22,000 ea... they had 4 of them. Each putting out 290amps.... in the picture you can see the TWO 0 guage lines and ground lines... that was 580 amps of current. Held solid at 14.4v. I saw it all. Their equipment is legit, and there isn't an amp on the planet in the same class of quality and clarity on the same level as the ARC AUDIO SE SERIES " THAT I KNOW OF ". ON TOP OF THAT, the SE4000 they tested is Rated and also put out 4,000 watts @ 12 volts! 12 volts to 14.4v didn't matter, still held a .005% THD level... if not, they don't pass QC....

If that level of testing doesn't tell you anything about their equipment, then IDK... maybe you need to go there for yourself and believe for yourself.....

Edited December 16, 2010 by DROCH CUSTOMS

[BIGDROCH 1]

hear is a 3500 thats been referbed by DB-R for 585$ http://www.db-r.com/sell/store2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67_69_97&products_id=228 get it and get us a birth sheet and tell us what you think.

You want me to get the SAZ-3500 to put it up against the RF 2500?

I didn't test my RF 2500's to put it up against anything else. I tested it because I wanted to know for myself what it actually put out. I'm a skeptic when it comes to Birth Sheets also, but I saw the proof, and I'm happy with it.

Ive heard nothing but good things about Sundown and will be getting one or installing them for my next customer. When I get one I will gladly test it. But like i said, i'm not doing testing to put any brand down.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

For $2700 that Arc amp would have to give me blow jobs as needed too.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

hear is a 3500 thats been referbed by DB-R for 585$ http://www.db-r.com/sell/store2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67_69_97&products_id=228 get it and get us a birth sheet and tell us what you think.

You want me to get the SAZ-3500 to put it up against the RF 2500?

I didn't test my RF 2500's to put it up against anything else. I tested it because I wanted to know for myself what it actually put out. I'm a skeptic when it comes to Birth Sheets also, but I saw the proof, and I'm happy with it.

Ive heard nothing but good things about Sundown and will be getting one or installing them for my next customer. When I get one I will gladly test it. But like i said, i'm not doing testing to put any brand down.

I think most people knew that. Some people have boners for a specific brand. Nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with seeing value in other brands too.

I like the test and I am sure Sundown would be right there too.

We are lucky to have so many quality choices.

[bimmerboy 3]

hear is a 3500 thats been referbed by DB-R for 585$ http://www.db-r.com/sell/store2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67_69_97&products_id=228 get it and get us a birth sheet and tell us what you think.

You want me to get the SAZ-3500 to put it up against the RF 2500?

I didn't test my RF 2500's to put it up against anything else. I tested it because I wanted to know for myself what it actually put out. I'm a skeptic when it comes to Birth Sheets also, but I saw the proof, and I'm happy with it.

Ive heard nothing but good things about Sundown and will be getting one or installing them for my next customer. When I get one I will gladly test it. But like i said, i'm not doing testing to put any brand down.

I think most people knew that. Some people have boners for a specific brand. Nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with seeing value in other brands too.

I like the test and I am sure Sundown would be right there too.

We are lucky to have so many quality choices.

+1

[BIGDROCH 1]

For $2700 that Arc amp would have to give me blow jobs as needed too.

$2700 may be the retail on it, but i'm sure " SUNDOWNZ " understands the cost of and quality of a board to putout over 4,000 watts at less then .09% THD @ 12 VOLTS. it's .005% at 14.4v.... Class H Quality isnt cheap.... Best of the Best.

Actual Tested Rating @ 12 volts (Random Production Unit ser#60026)

1 Channels @ 4 ohms 1198 Watts

1 Channels @ 2 ohms 2311 Watts

1 Channels @ 1 ohms 4366 Watts

THD @ full power 1ohm .09%

* Audiophile sound quality based design

* Designed by Robert Zeff

* Class H switching design

* Microprocessor controlled design

* Microprocessor controlled Code based flashing diagnostics

* Concealed adjustment controls

* 24Db per octave Low pass crossover (Bandwidth limited)

* Internal chassis force cooled speed controlled dual fans for optimum cooling

* Hi/Low level balanced switchblade RCA inputs for maximum system integration

* RJ45 Ethernet input connections for true balanced input connections

* Block type terminal connections

* 256 color user selectable illumination circuit

* Combined Bias circuit and temperature regulation circuit to regulate bias and lower THD at any point in total thermal cycle

* Microprocessor high voltage power supply allows the amplifier to optimize power output at different ohm loads without the loss of efficiency or sound quality

* Vdrive based preamp stage improves efficiency lower internal signal loss

* Hand picked ultra hi voltage output devices used in the SE4000

* 3 stage bank of self branded ultra low ESR 105 degree Celsius caps increase power reserves for each of the amplifiers 6 voltage rails

* massive combined output inductors eliminate any unwanted A/C ripple in the amplifier increasing the amplifiers stability, while lowering the THD and increasing the S/N ratio.

* Equipped with Dual 1/0 Power and Dual 1/0 Ground Screw Down Compression Block Terminals

* Strapable Design allowing for the linking and connection of two units into one single channel of very high power of output- Capable of over 9000 watts at less than 1% distortion + over 10,000 watts at less than 3% distortion.

[gcs8 10]

i was hoping for a reference point for what Jacob says and what the amps do.

i love my sundown amps, i cram them in friends cars and usaly pimp them out over any thing else if they fit the applaction.

i run a saz-3000D and would love to know the true top end of its power band but being in GA i don't think theres any place local that i could test at.

i am more instred in gathering info then pitting amps agenst one another, but i would like to be able to say "testing showed that xxxx is capable from the amp if needed.

it was more of a request and pointing out that DB-r usaly has good deals on sundown amps that he has repaired and they come with a warranty as well. it is a nice alternative to have if you are on a budget.