front stage help

[lithium 358]

previous set up was a 2way; sls 8 midbass in the doors w/ a kx250.2 powering them, and a Peerless 830986 on a kicker zx100.2 in/on the a pillars. plus the mj18 ib. hu is a clarion dzx785usb (i think thats the model number irrc)

problems with previous setup were that it looked bad and my attempt to fg new pods didn't improve it. it was also lacking the upper midbass region, either the 3 wouldn't play low enough or the sls wouldn't play high enough.

im looking to move the midrange to the kick's and add a tweeter to the a-pillars or kicks aswell(if i dont use a full range again).

(note: since i had a set of polk tweeters laying around i threw them in the a-pillar to fill the hole that was already there. i hooked them up to the hu but i really dont use them. i was using them from 10k up with the 3" playing 10k and down, and they sound a little better then the 3" full range in the kicks. later i swapped in a the tweeters from a set of pg rsd comps, however one tweeter is damaged, the dome was pushed in, using a needle i think i fixed it.) the polks blew asschips, the pg's sound good imo

i clarify how im doing the processing, im running the tweeter and midrange on separate channels and sharing the 3rd channel with the midbass and sub (using the hu to lowpass @ 250 and highpass @ 25, midbass amp highpass @ ~60 and subwoofer to lowpass @ ~60) yep its alittle rigged.

im was thinking about getting one of these so its more legit, it would also open up some more EQ since the clarion HU only a 3 band parametric minidsp

as far as amps go for the 3 way, i have 1 zx100.2 and 2 kx250.2

last think i should mention is that one of my 3 incher is damaged.. stuck my finger through it, pulled the surround off the basket and put a little fold in the cone but repaired it. so im still looking for a new set of midrange/fullrange regardless of whether or not i commit to a 3way front stage.

budget, ill go 150 for midrange and tweeter maybe more (not including that minidsp if anyone thinks that it would be a good idea)

i've looked at alot of speakers. i cant pick... so many options

listening preferences are pretty broad. but i mostly listen rock, grunge, alternative rock, etc.

my fabrication skills ok, still learning.. tried to fg dash pods and failed but i learned alot. (the mounting ring moved when i stretched the material over it)

[///M5 2,833]

Plans on going from a 3" to something larger? Considering your trouble with them I might think hard about it. To play high those three's really need to be on axis.

Also curious as to the crossover choices on your headunit. I don't recall what they are anymore. Reason I ask is that choosing drivers that are next to each other is always a good idea when sharing

Thanks for making a good thread, glad to see there are people out there that respect the forum

[lithium 358]

i thought about running something like these in the kicks based on zaph reviews, tang band w5 i build a mounting ring to see what size speaker would fit (to see if the tang band would fit) in the kicks and there is plenty of room for a 5.25.

as far as the hu goes it has a hpf on the tweeter channel, and can band pass the sub and midrange. if you need specific points i can get them. and the slopes are 6 12 and 18 db

[///M5 2,833]

SLS in doors and midrange going in kicks?

First I'd recommend a midrange that can play higher. After your experience with 3's I am hesitant to recommend a 4"er but really feel that is the sweet spot for driver size in a 3 way. Considering you didn't like the transition between the midbass and 3" though they might not dig deep enough for you. I do think they would. Those 5's don't really cut the mustard to yield the benefit of a 3 way IMO.

I'd also think of bandpassing the SLS and new midrange together. Use the amp to cross between (assuming the mounting locations above). You can then use the T/A better and voice based on the midranges completely.

I'd pick the mid first. Then depending the tweeter could be a very cost effective tweet if you can get a mid to play the range you want it to. The Tang W4 and CSS drivers are both respectable for your price bracket. I am sure there are others as I haven't really looked at 4's lately. Take a peak and see what you think.

[///M5 2,833]

I am curious as to how high the HP can be set on the tweet and the low and high limits of the bandpass...

[lithium 358]

thanks for the help m5, here is a list of each cross over point and ill reference the range of frequencies for each one.

20k 16k 12.5k 10k 8k 6.3k 5k 4k 3.15k 2.5k 2k 1.6k 1.25k 1k 800 630 500 400 315 250 200 160 125 100 80 63 50 40 31.5 25 16

tweeter hp 25-20k

mid lp 630-10k and hp 25-10k

sub lp 25-10k and hp 16-250

[lithium 358]

SLS in doors and midrange going in kicks?

First I'd recommend a midrange that can play higher. After your experience with 3's I am hesitant to recommend a 4"er but really feel that is the sweet spot for driver size in a 3 way. Considering you didn't like the transition between the midbass and 3" though they might not dig deep enough for you. I do think they would. Those 5's don't really cut the mustard to yield the benefit of a 3 way IMO.

I'd also think of bandpassing the SLS and new midrange together. Use the amp to cross between (assuming the mounting locations above). You can then use the T/A better and voice based on the midranges completely.

I'd pick the mid first. Then depending the tweeter could be a very cost effective tweet if you can get a mid to play the range you want it to. The Tang W4 and CSS drivers are both respectable for your price bracket. I am sure there are others as I haven't really looked at 4's lately. Take a peak and see what you think.

sls in the doors , midrange in the kicks. yep

ill look into mids you've recommended. i like where your going with this

[///M5 2,833]

Sweet, the headunit will let you couple the midbass and midrange together on a channel.

63-10k or so depending on the driver, output levels required, and of course your preference.

[///M5 2,833]

Aura NT1 or Dayton ND20 will mate with a driver that can play high and are great little tweeters

[lithium 358]

here are the speakers recommended by m5, anyone else want to chime in please do.

tb w4

after adding the w4 to my cart, parts express says there is a backorder issue, no problem since im in no hurry to purchase and install.

pretty sure m5 is referring to the titanium cone model but here is the bamboo cone model for comparison's sake

tb w4 bamboo

i believe this is the CSS driver he mentioned. 4.5" fullrange (sexy phase plug!)

css fr125sr

here are the tweeters

2 models for the dayton, dayton tweet 1

dayton tweet 2

aura nt1 aurasound nt1

any thoughts?

[///M5 2,833]

Hard to pick among the TangBand's. I would expect the Titanium to be the easiest to integrate as you can just roll the top end off rather aggressively.

The Poly cone is cheaper, the underhung will dig deeper and blend really easily, the Bamboo I'd probably pick the Poly over for in car but will add I haven't heard either. I have only heard the Titanium which was impressive, but the others are supposed to be good as well.

The CSS is a driver I also haven't heard or used, but have read reviews on it from people whom I know compared it to good drivers and they really liked it.

As for the tweeter. I know they are cheap, but for what you need I'd spend as much of my budget on the mids. They are also really effective tweeters. You know they have to be otherwise Zaph wouldn't have used them in his ZDT3.5's. If you go that route, your choice is metal or cloth. If you are a metal guy, grab the Aura, if you aren't grab the textile Dayton (pick the format that is easier for you to mount ). Or hell, buy one of each and let your ears decide. They are cheap

Either way, I'd integrate the midrange & midbass first. Try and get as much "sparkle" as you can out of the mid without it breaking up and then decide how much tweet you need based on the frequency you can handle the mid playing up to. The goal is to get as much of the acoustic spectra coming out of that one driver. This will make the blending of the other two drivers really easy.

[///M5 2,833]

Translation:

Titanium, CSS or Underhung if you have the budget

[lithium 358]

Hard to pick among the TangBand's. I would expect the Titanium to be the easiest to integrate as you can just roll the top end off rather aggressively.

The Poly cone is cheaper, the underhung will dig deeper and blend really easily, the Bamboo I'd probably pick the Poly over for in car but will add I haven't heard either. I have only heard the Titanium which was impressive, but the others are supposed to be good as well.

The CSS is a driver I also haven't heard or used, but have read reviews on it from people whom I know compared it to good drivers and they really liked it.

As for the tweeter. I know they are cheap, but for what you need I'd spend as much of my budget on the mids. They are also really effective tweeters. You know they have to be otherwise Zaph wouldn't have used them in his ZDT3.5's. If you go that route, your choice is metal or cloth. If you are a metal guy, grab the Aura, if you aren't grab the textile Dayton (pick the format that is easier for you to mount ). Or hell, buy one of each and let your ears decide. They are cheap

Either way, I'd integrate the midrange & midbass first. Try and get as much "sparkle" as you can out of the mid without it breaking up and then decide how much tweet you need based on the frequency you can handle the mid playing up to. The goal is to get as much of the acoustic spectra coming out of that one driver. This will make the blending of the other two drivers really easy.

im looking into the W4's first (focusing on the titanium and underhung as you mentioned). i totally forgot how many W4 models there are... Titanium,poly,underhung,bamboo, and an aluminum which i think is new

price wise, i dont mind spending more for the titaniums, or more on speakers in general. if spending a little more opened up a substantially better option in mid or tweeter? let me know.

i figured my budget would give me a good price/performance ratio

as far as tweeters go, i cant remember what a metal tweet sounded like compared to a textile tweet. honestly, i think i've never heard a decent metal tweet before. but of the tweeters i've owned (which is very few) i believe they've all been textile, the tweeter from the pg rsd component set probably being the best of the few i've heard.

at this point im thinking ill go with the dayton tweet and titanium w4, but i have no plans to order for a week or 2.

[lithium 358]

decided to go with the dayton tweeter and tang band titanium 4". seems like the CSS driver has some quality control issues

thanks for the help m5

ill put a build up after new years