Daily System Power

[ShagggDiesel 25]

The situation: Getting my 12" BTL this weekend.. The amplifier I have currently is going to have my sub screaming for .. I'm wanting to feed it at least 2k rms.

The question: Assuming I have the electrical to run 3000 watts at a stable voltage, would it be and audible difference from 2000 watts just on a daily setup? This is not for numbers at all. Simply for listening experience. I've heard answers coming from both ends.. I don't want to spend an extra 100-200$ on another 1kw if it's not going to be any louder to MY ear than 2000 watts.

For those who must know the amp I have now, it's a Lanzar MAXP1200d. There are NO available RMS ratings for this amp online that I can find anywhere other than 450 watts at 4 ohm.. only MAX ratings. (900 watts @2ohm and 1800 watts @1ohm) and we all know how likely those numbers are. And before I get flamed for having this amp, it was given to me as a replacement when I sold my Memphis ST-1000d.

If there is another thread that already answers my question, if someone could just link me to it, would be much appreciated. Couldn't find anything with search function. Thanks!

[jmanjr 0]

more then likely that memphis did more power then your current lanzar amp. The only lanzar amp I have ever liked was the opti series. Realistically if you were to put a Sundown 3500 on that sub in place of the lanzar it would be a NIGHT and DAY difference! I say go with the 3k, because you will have overhang power. If you get a 2k amp more then likely your not getting 2k factoring in imp rise, voltage etc. With a 3k you can be easy on the gain keep the power clean an that sub will SCREAM!

[ShagggDiesel 25]

more then likely that memphis did more power then your current lanzar amp. The only lanzar amp I have ever liked was the opti series. Realistically if you were to put a Sundown 3500 on that sub in place of the lanzar it would be a NIGHT and DAY difference! I say go with the 3k, because you will have overhang power. If you get a 2k amp more then likely your not getting 2k factoring in imp rise, voltage etc. With a 3k you can be easy on the gain keep the power clean an that sub will SCREAM!

All that sounds lovely.. But whether or not I'm getting the full 2k or not means to me. I just want to know If I set up let's say.. a SAZ 2500d , then a 3500d, listen to both blindfolded, would I be able to tell enough difference to be worth paying the difference? And no, I won't be adding another sub in the future, so I wont need the overhang for another speaker for installs ahead. If anything, future installs will be smaller and SQ based.

[Julian 641]

I would look into a Saz-2500.. you wont hear a difference and you can get one refurb'd for a reasonable price.

[ShagggDiesel 25]

I would look into a Saz-2500.. you wont hear a difference and you can get one refurb'd for a reasonable price.

Even refurbed, those still shoot up there. I've heard good ratings from the higher powered AP series.. Such as the AP3001d. If i were to go up to the 3kw range, that was going to be one of my main choices due to it's price and feedback. I'm trying to sqeeeze a quarter out of a dime here.. leaving for college this coming summer. Need to get this install done and start saving.

[Julian 641]

I would look into a Saz-2500.. you wont hear a difference and you can get one refurb'd for a reasonable price.

Even refurbed, those still shoot up there. I've heard good ratings from the higher powered AP series.. Such as the AP3001d. If i were to go up to the 3kw range, that was going to be one of my main choices due to it's price and feedback. I'm trying to sqeeeze a quarter out of a dime here.. leaving for college this coming summer. Need to get this install done and start saving.

I'm not sure how the AP amps are, I haven't really played around with them.

[bassahaulic 155]

Real question is, what's your budget?

[slim2fattycake 85]

Your sub is dual 2 ohm so you have to wire to 4 ohm to the audiopipe ap30001d for 2000 watts. Or you could spend a little less for the ap18001d and get 1800 watts at 1 ohm. You won't hear the difference between 200 watts.

[emh9009 199]

In reality it comes down to how you tune the amp. You could have a rated 5k watt amp, and a 1k watt amp and not notice, if you've tuned them both to push "800 watts". So if you're asking if one is going to be louder at gain level X than the other, than i would say no. The difference would be how hard the amp has to work to get to the required wattage you want, which will put your electrical in check. Going with the 5 and 1k watt amps, it will be much easier for the 5k to do 1k watts than the 1k amp. That is where the head room comes into play.

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong. this is just how i see the situation.

[ShagggDiesel 25]

Real question is, what's your budget?

$250 max

[///M5 2,833]

Don't butcher the question.

Lets consider the situation more theoretically. Lets say you have a perfect amplifier, that is setup exactly as stated. IE, 0% distortion and True power. One at 2000w and one at 3000w. Listen to your amp on one sub. Shut it off, get out of the car and switch amps and then sit back in and listen to the other. Will you hear a difference? No. You are getting close to a range where you could though. 2500w to 3000w no way in hell. 1500w to 3000w if you have good ears, yes.

Now why did I make this theoretical? Because you are comparing amps that have WAY different ratings that what you stated. You can't compare a turd with a real amp. The Sundown 2500 to 3500 was a much better comparison, but again you could crank the gain on the 2500 and hold back on the 3500 and have the same average power from each. One would be a distorted mess, the other not.

Either way, $250 isn't going to get you anywhere near that anyways. In your case you should find the best used amp you can get as you won't get anywhere near your goal new.

[ShagggDiesel 25]

Thank you for the input M. The AP1800 runs around 200 new, and it's rated at 1800 rms. That's the closest thing I've found to my power goal and budget.

[Notorious97200 339]

Thank you for the input M. The AP1800 runs around 200 new, and it's rated at 1800 rms. That's the closest thing I've found to my power goal and budget.

Go for it or save some more money to get a better amp.

Maybe you can find some fantastic deals on used equipments ? Must be fantastic, with your budget !

Good luck:peepwall:

[inkfx 3]

I noticed differences switching between a Cadence TXA1000D, SAE-1200 and now a SAZ-1500D. Can't wait to see all the people here tell me that I didn't.

[jcarter1885 995]

I noticed differences switching between a Cadence TXA1000D, SAE-1200 and now a SAZ-1500D. Can't wait to see all the people here tell me that I didn't.

Psychoacoustics is all it is, do you have a tl or something that measures the difference besides your ears? If not than that statement you made is an opinion , nothing can beat what the law of physics states especially not human ears.

[jonbearsmt 919]

I noticed differences switching between a Cadence TXA1000D, SAE-1200 and now a SAZ-1500D. Can't wait to see all the people here tell me that I didn't.

Psychoacoustics is all it is, do you have a tl or something that measures the difference besides your ears? If not than that statement you made is an opinion , nothing can beat what the law of physics states especially not human ears.

i do not agree with you.

[jcarter1885 995]

I noticed differences switching between a Cadence TXA1000D, SAE-1200 and now a SAZ-1500D. Can't wait to see all the people here tell me that I didn't.

Psychoacoustics is all it is, do you have a tl or something that measures the difference besides your ears? If not than that statement you made is an opinion , nothing can beat what the law of physics states especially not human ears.

i do not agree with you.

So you can tell the difference in a 1000 watt amp (Cadence TXA1000D) vs a 1200 watt amp(Sundown SAE-1200D) like he stated above, now that is very hard to believe.

[jonbearsmt 919]

I noticed differences switching between a Cadence TXA1000D, SAE-1200 and now a SAZ-1500D. Can't wait to see all the people here tell me that I didn't.

Psychoacoustics is all it is, do you have a tl or something that measures the difference besides your ears? If not than that statement you made is an opinion , nothing can beat what the law of physics states especially not human ears.

i do not agree with you.

So you can tell the difference in a 1000 watt amp (Cadence TXA1000D) vs a 1200 watt amp(Sundown SAE-1200D) like he stated above, now that is very hard to believe.

what im saying is ... that there has been many times where i have swapped amps out either for my self or a customer and it was a noticable change in out put, while only changing rms claimed amps withen 500 watts or so.

so yes... im sayin that it can be noticed by ear... maybe not by everyone.. maybe not in a blind test.. but its not in my mind. i can asure you of that.

and yes i have a termlab that also backs me up. if need be.

now lets eat a turkey leg

[kirill007 52]

Hearing a 20% difference in power is quite hard to do.

Really, find a amp that has build in VU-meters.(and where you can see the wattage offcourse because not all have that.)

(Maybe it's possible to do when you have 1 amp and don't need to change amps, so there is almost no time between comparisons, i'll test tomorrow and come back with results )

Edited November 25, 2010 by kirill007

[jonbearsmt 919]

now i was speaking as alex was about going from a crossfire 1000 to a sundown 1200 yadda yadda.. that somone could surly tell a difference.

but this is very true.. if you used the same amp say.. a saz 3000d... dial it into 1500 watts.... listen to it.. then someone else come along and dials it back to 1200 watts givin.. i dont think anyone could tell.

me personally i can tell when my batteries are not fully charged.

[inkfx 3]

I listen to my system enough I could tell the difference when the amps were switched out.(Cadence to SAE1200) I did a 139.6 with the SAE-1200D on the TermLab and the SAZ-1500D sounds louder to me but haven't had a chance to meter it yet. If I meet up with Hugo or Jon I'll see if we can do a run. I'll bet the numbers go up.

[kirill007 52]

There are a lot of things that have changed so it's not a fair comparison.

[Impious 1,476]

I noticed differences switching between a Cadence TXA1000D, SAE-1200 and now a SAZ-1500D. Can't wait to see all the people here tell me that I didn't.

No one can tell you that you didn't hear a difference.

But we can tell you that you didn't hear a difference for the reasons you probably think you did.

Differences in gain setting and structure, crossover points, and a dozen other variables will all cause an audible change in sound. That doesn't mean you heard a difference because of a ~300w change in power.

[Impious 1,476]

I listen to my system enough I could tell the difference when the amps were switched out.(Cadence to SAE1200) I did a 139.6 with the SAE-1200D on the TermLab and the SAZ-1500D sounds louder to me but haven't had a chance to meter it yet. If I meet up with Hugo or Jon I'll see if we can do a run. I'll bet the numbers go up.

Listening to the system "a lot" really has nothing to do with it. There are limits to the threshold of human hearing.

I'll bet the numbers go up as well, as there is certainly a measurable difference in 300w of power. A noticeably audible difference due to 300w difference in power is less likely, although changes in all of the variables involved certainly allows for there to be a change in sound when exchanging amplifiers.

[Impious 1,476]

what im saying is ... that there has been many times where i have swapped amps out either for my self or a customer and it was a noticable change in out put, while only changing rms claimed amps withen 500 watts or so.

so yes... im sayin that it can be noticed by ear... maybe not by everyone.. maybe not in a blind test.. but its not in my mind. i can asure you of that.

and yes i have a termlab that also backs me up. if need be.

There is a measurable difference in 500w of power at any level. Just because something is measurable doesn't mean it's audible, and if it is measurable and audible you still didn't isolate the reasons for the difference. So the termlab results are pretty meaningless

And a 500w power difference doesn't mean anything either. I'd surely bet you could hear a difference in a 500w power difference if we start with a power level of 500w, for example. So that's a pretty meaningless example as well.

And of course you can exchange amplifiers close in power rating and hear a difference. Hell, you can exchange amplifiers rated for the same power and hear a difference. You can exchange two identical amplifiers and hear a difference.

That doesn't mean there was an audible difference in the amplifiers, but rather in the settings. These are two different things completely and should not be confused.