Oscilloscope-What to Look for

[Frostedflakejake 148]

I've been thinking about buying an Oscilloscope for a while now. What should i be looking for when it comes to buying one? What makes one durastically better than the other? For know it will be used solely for setting gains to insure minimal clipping, but I would like it to be able to do whatever else one would do with an Oscilloscope. Seeing as I'm an Electrical Engineering major I know it will most likely come in handy in my future so I would like to get one that has a wide range of uses.

So what should i be looking for when it comes to the specifications of an o-scope?

Thanks for your time.

[Bob345 39]

Tektronix is a good brant when looking into an oscope

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Yeah they came up on the google serach. But they also make $40,000 o-scopes, and i can find some of there products on ebay for around $100 new, and everything inbetween. So I suppose I'm asking for someone to narrow it down for me. Like obviously there are some features on the high-end products that don't apply to me or anyone really that isn't studying signal processing

[Bob345 39]

You could also look at some older used analog oscopes on eBay, I've seen some for as low as $50.

[95Honda 486]

For most audio applications a scope won't be terribly expensive because you don't need a ton of bandwidth. Anything over a 100Mhz scope will be overkill for 99% of what you do... (and this is really only needed when T/S power supplies, etc....) You should be able to find a decent used 100MHz Techtronics for pretty cheap.

If your sole reason for buying a scope now is for gain setting, then I would wait until you are further into your career and use it for something useful....

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Thanks 95 honda, that's what i was looking for. I'll probably just buy a cheapy now to probably set my gains and then when i do realize i need something more complex, i'll buy another one. Won't be for a couple years anyways!

thanks!

[///M5 2,833]

If your sole reason for buying a scope now is for gain setting, then I would wait until you are further into your career and use it for something useful....

You misunderstood this jake. Basically don't bother buying one unless you have something more useful to use it for.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Oh my, thanks for clarifying that m5! I absolutely did read that wrong. I would still like to buy one because I find my peers asking me to help them with their bass amps frequently and i feel comfortable setting my own settings by ear but with other peoples cars i would like to use an O-scope just in case i mess up. I would like to have very little liability. So, if i find one on ebay like... ebay, o-scope would that be able to accurately set gains? If so, why and if so, why not?

Thanks =]

[emh9009 199]

if you run a "clean" 1k watt signal to a pair of subs, rated at 200 watts each. then they, most likely, will still blow. so you dont need to set your amp to the absolute max (before clipped signal) to properly set the gains. i would still just set by ear.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

watts 09-

Then i'm at a loss. I thought that the general "rule" was that if you didn't trust your ears or didn't know what damaging sounds sounded like, use an o-scope.

And another question:

Does anybody know what the o-scope in that link can't do? (why is it so cheap?)

[cobra93 47]

I understand what you're getting at Frosted, piece of mind, right or wrong one less thing to worry about.

$50.00 would be worth it too me as well.

If nothing else I'd like to see what it could show me on my amps.

[Julian 641]

Do you still go to school? Most schools/colleges have o-scopes and you can usually use them for free

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Yes i am Julian. I'm a first year student. How the education works here at Michigan tech is that pretty much all engineering students have the same classes for the first two years. So for my first two years i don't have access to any major specific equipment. I only have access to the equipment in the Fundamentals engineering building. Equipment more complex and major specific (o-scopes, FPGA's, laser's, ect) i won't have access to for another year and a half! Regardless, at my early education, i don't have the ability to check out any equipment. So even if i could use the equipment, i would have to bring my truck do the 6th floor of my Electrical Energy Resource building....

[ulrisa 26]

Yes i am Julian. I'm a first year student. How the education works here at Michigan tech is that pretty much all engineering students have the same classes for the first two years. So for my first two years i don't have access to any major specific equipment. I only have access to the equipment in the Fundamentals engineering building. Equipment more complex and major specific (o-scopes, FPGA's, laser's, ect) i won't have access to for another year and a half! Regardless, at my early education, i don't have the ability to check out any equipment. So even if i could use the equipment, i would have to bring my truck do the 6th floor of my Electrical Energy Resource building....

Haha, it's the same way for me. They wouldn't let me borrow an o-scope so I am hoping to buy one at some point. Off topic, but good luck with your classes! It only gets more and more painful... I mean fun lol.

[///M5 2,833]

An Oscope doesn't tell the whole story though. Still too many variables.

What does the loudest cd you have peak at relative to 0dB?

If you don't know how do you choose what level to set the gains at in the first place?

[Frostedflakejake 148]

To M5,

I suppose I don't know enough about setting gains with the o-scope to answer that question (looks like you already knew that though! ha). I thought it was done very similar to the thread here about how to do it via DMM and bass tone. It was probably a dumb idea to assume that's how you do it.. but regardless, i used the tones provided by Shizzzon in his signature when i set my gain. If i use an o-scope, how would i set my gain?

[///M5 2,833]

If you don't know what your music is recorded at I can't tell you. Just be arbitrary up or down. On the same note, considering you CAN'T hear the difference between 750w and 1000w AT ALL why even bother? You've stated nothing about competing and such it will just be a waste of money.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Im not worried about getting exactly "x amount of watts". I'm curious as to whether i'm sending a clipped signal to my BTL. It sounds good to my ear, but my ear doesn't necessarily know what a clipped signal sounds like.

overall it seems as if i don't know enough information.

Lets say i bought an oscope, how would i know what level my music is recorded at? Do i use music to set my oscope or sin waves?

[Beandip 3]

Basically what M5 is saying is that if you set your gains on one cd but the next cd could have been recorded at a higher volume level. Since you optimized your output from the amp on the lower volume cd, the cd that was recorded using a higher level could cause hour amp to clip.

But since you are not competing there is no point to optimize the output since you cannot hear the difference. Just listen to your btl, it will tell you when you are pushing it too far.

[///M5 2,833]

Im not worried about getting exactly "x amount of watts". I'm curious as to whether i'm sending a clipped signal to my BTL. It sounds good to my ear, but my ear doesn't necessarily know what a clipped signal sounds like.

overall it seems as if i don't know enough information.

Lets say i bought an oscope, how would i know what level my music is recorded at? Do i use music to set my oscope or sin waves?

Basically what M5 is saying is that if you set your gains on one cd but the next cd could have been recorded at a higher volume level. Since you optimized your output from the amp on the lower volume cd, the cd that was recorded using a higher level could cause hour amp to clip.

But since you are not competing there is no point to optimize the output since you cannot hear the difference. Just listen to your btl, it will tell you when you are pushing it too far.

So then for which CD do you want to set the gains and what level is it at?

Is it becoming obvious why there is no ONE answer to your question.

[Adrian_D 520]

If your sole reason for buying a scope now is for gain setting, then I would wait until you are further into your career and use it for something useful....

Basically don't bother buying one unless you have something more useful to use it for.

X2. I've used mine mostly to measure power supplies, oscillators and drivers.

[95Honda 486]

Considering mild clipping (which seems to be your concern) has basically no effect on the driver, it really isn't an issue.

Honestly, I just say this because I read about this all the time, and I really doubt that anyone is really doing any sort of objective measuring/adjusting. I only say this because the signal chain in most sytems has way to many variables to try and calibrate one part (gain of the final amp) and think everything is OK.

Additionally, the clipping issue is just plain retarded. There are maybe only a handfull of people on here that have done any real testing and can give actual test data/testimony. Almost everyone else is just spouting heresay and theories... It is almost stupid and seems to be used as the scapegoat every time someone blows a driver... But it is honestly a dead horse at this point...

Buy a decent scope that will help you with your career path. Not to calibrate equipment for people who are clueless....