Need Help, Not sure what subs to buy

[jcarter1885 995]

What is your budget on an amp if your interested in buying a new one?

[xAndrew225x 8]

I'm confused. You wanted a sub recommendation and when we recommend a sub and try to help you decide on something, you just decide BTLs are the only way to go. I'm pretty sure you mentioned SQ somewhere near the beginning of this thread? lol

NOT saying BTLs won't achieve sound quality but as said before, do some more researching and I'm sure you can narrow down what will suit your needs. Good Luck.

[bimmerboy 3]

IDK i don't think the best option is to just buy whatever is the most expensive... its all in the details IMO and that requires research and experience.

Its like some 16 yr old coming here after just having their license for a couple of months and asking what kinda sports car to buy, would all of you seriously reccomend the most expensive and fastest car out there?

Same principal applies to this situation, the OP does NOT need to get a BTL to be loud... IMO its all in the details, and giving 1000rms to a BTL would be kinda lame dont you think M5? why not just get a BL then? they are also rated at 1000rms?

[jcarter1885 995]

IDK i don't think the best option is to just buy whatever is the most expensive... its all in the details IMO and that requires research and experience.

Its like some 16 yr old coming here after just having their license for a couple of months and asking what kinda sports car to buy, would all of you seriously reccomend the most expensive and fastest car out there?

Same principal applies to this situation, the OP does NOT need to get a BTL to be loud... IMO its all in the details, and giving 1000rms to a BTL would be kinda lame dont you think M5? why not just get a BL then? they are also rated at 1000rms?

, its not always about the power. What is wrong with underpowering a subwoofer, you dont have to give a sub its full rms or double its rms to perform well.

[Hzd Skizzy 27]

If you just want to be louder than two apline X 10" subs you could get 2 SSA ICONs and be fine....Don't waste your money on the BTL, its def. for people who are experienced and know what they are doing.... The amount of power it requires is a serious investment not only in your amplifier but also your car and its electrical system.

WTF? Not at all. Even with only 1w the BTL will be louder than any other sub Fi makes with 1w. Really simple. The BTL is made to get the loudest out of all of them, but indeed the enclosure makes WAY more difference than splitting hairs on the driver.

edit: note I didn't say you can't get loud with the Icons, just was addressing the idiotic statement in bold

I think Bimmerboy had the idea that the OP was going to power the BTL with at least the RMS of the sub, and not just 1w. In which case he would need to spend more money on electrical upgrades.

[jcarter1885 995]

If you just want to be louder than two apline X 10" subs you could get 2 SSA ICONs and be fine....Don't waste your money on the BTL, its def. for people who are experienced and know what they are doing.... The amount of power it requires is a serious investment not only in your amplifier but also your car and its electrical system.

WTF? Not at all. Even with only 1w the BTL will be louder than any other sub Fi makes with 1w. Really simple. The BTL is made to get the loudest out of all of them, but indeed the enclosure makes WAY more difference than splitting hairs on the driver.

edit: note I didn't say you can't get loud with the Icons, just was addressing the idiotic statement in bold

I think Bimmerboy had the idea that the OP was going to power the BTL with at least the RMS of the sub, and not just 1w. In which case he would need to spend more money on electrical upgrades.

You would use almost the same amount of power on 2 SSA Icons vs 1 Fi BTL, so regardless M5 was right.

[Hzd Skizzy 27]

If you just want to be louder than two apline X 10" subs you could get 2 SSA ICONs and be fine....Don't waste your money on the BTL, its def. for people who are experienced and know what they are doing.... The amount of power it requires is a serious investment not only in your amplifier but also your car and its electrical system.

WTF? Not at all. Even with only 1w the BTL will be louder than any other sub Fi makes with 1w. Really simple. The BTL is made to get the loudest out of all of them, but indeed the enclosure makes WAY more difference than splitting hairs on the driver.

edit: note I didn't say you can't get loud with the Icons, just was addressing the idiotic statement in bold

I think Bimmerboy had the idea that the OP was going to power the BTL with at least the RMS of the sub, and not just 1w. In which case he would need to spend more money on electrical upgrades.

You would use almost the same amount of power on 2 SSA Icons vs 1 Fi BTL, so regardless M5 was right.

He is right about what he said, never said he was wrong, but i was just clearing up something. I'm pretty sure BimmerBoy had the idea that the OP was going to use 2000watts in his system.

[bimmerboy 3]

If you just want to be louder than two apline X 10" subs you could get 2 SSA ICONs and be fine....Don't waste your money on the BTL, its def. for people who are experienced and know what they are doing.... The amount of power it requires is a serious investment not only in your amplifier but also your car and its electrical system.

WTF? Not at all. Even with only 1w the BTL will be louder than any other sub Fi makes with 1w. Really simple. The BTL is made to get the loudest out of all of them, but indeed the enclosure makes WAY more difference than splitting hairs on the driver.

edit: note I didn't say you can't get loud with the Icons, just was addressing the idiotic statement in bold

I think Bimmerboy had the idea that the OP was going to power the BTL with at least the RMS of the sub, and not just 1w. In which case he would need to spend more money on electrical upgrades.

You would use almost the same amount of power on 2 SSA Icons vs 1 Fi BTL, so regardless M5 was right.

He is right about what he said, never said he was wrong, but i was just clearing up something. I'm pretty sure BimmerBoy had the idea that the OP was going to use 2000watts in his system.

Yes, why buy a BTL and throw 1000rms on it

Giving yourself headroom with your AMP is one thing, but why buy a 2000 RMS woofer if you will ONLY use it at 1000rms? Its not like Fi overrates their subs, so if ur goals are to use aronud 1k power, why not save $$ and get a BL instead of the BTL?

Also, how would 2 12" SSDs or even ICONs at 1000rms total not be atleast equal to or louder than 1 12" BTL at 1000rms, what about cone area etc...

Regardless of what OP decides, good luck! Didn't mean to rain on your parade...

Edited October 18, 2010 by bimmerboy

[jcarter1885 995]

Just remember guys its not always about cone area or how much power you have, its all in the install and the application. Yeah the 2-12" SSD's win in cone area but did you factor in the motor force of the BTL over the SSD's. In most cases cone area does win but not always when comparing two completely different drivers.

I had 3-12" Kicker CVX's on 800 watts of power and was satisfied, yeah sure I could of gave them the full 2250 watts they recommended but did they need it no. Some people will get a BTL on 1000 watts just to avoid from having to upgrade alternators or add big secondary batteries. Would you not buy a porsche because you cant go 180 on the freeway or streets, or do you buy it for its other features and perfomances it still gives you at lower speeds?

[bimmerboy 3]

Just remember guys its not always about cone area or how much power you have, its all in the install and the application. Yeah the 2-12" SSD's win in cone area but did you factor in the motor force of the BTL over the SSD's. In most cases cone area does win but not always when comparing two completely different drivers.

I had 3-12" Kicker CVX's on 800 watts of power and was satisfied, yeah sure I could of gave them the full 2250 watts they recommended but did they need it no. Some people will get a BTL on 1000 watts just to avoid from having to upgrade alternators or add big secondary batteries. Would you not buy a porsche because you cant go 180 on the freeway or streets, or do you buy it for its other features and perfomances it still gives you at lower speeds?

I agree, it is all in the install and application. Good luck OP

[///M5 2,833]

Yes, why buy a BTL and throw 1000rms on it

Pretty simple actually, if your goal was truly loudness and to buy Fi that would be your loudest choice off 1000w that they make.

Giving yourself headroom with your AMP is one thing, but why buy a 2000 RMS woofer if you will ONLY use it at 1000rms? Its not like Fi overrates their subs, so if ur goals are to use aronud 1k power, why not save $$ and get a BL instead of the BTL?

Do you run at full volume all day all the time? 2/3, 1/2? Get my point. Who cares how much power you put on a driver if it does what you want it to. If for what you have it is the best driver from the manufacturer how could it be wrong? *again with the goal of loud

Also, how would 2 12" SSDs or even ICONs at 1000rms total not be atleast equal to or louder than 1 12" BTL at 1000rms, what about cone area etc...

You'd be surprised. Could go either way, will ALL depend on the install.

[wrxinfx 2]

What Bimmer was trying to say is that why would you buy a Ferrari to only drive around at 55mph? Why would you buy a 4x4 truck if you don't go off road? Its like paying top dollar or a ton of extra money on something you don't need.

If the OP wants loud on (x) watts then I suggest design the right install around the power he is going to run.. like everyone said above. The sub is just as important but not necessarily the pinnacle of the system. I have a BTL fl and with the sax 1200 it is screaming for more power... in my particular install that is. I have currently the 15 Q loaded back in and it is suffice .. almost perfect...with that same amp. It is at or close to its nominal potential with that wattage. The BTL needs 2000 plus watts to live up to its potential. Its just a waste knowing it can get louder but can't due to power restrictions. Like having that same Ferrari but driving it 2 miles down the road in a school zone every single day for the rest of my life. So what i'm trying to say is that for (x) wattage.. get the right sub for job. FI didn't run wattage specs for fun. They engineered their woofers to be prime in that wattage range. But if you got the extra headroom in power... use it wisely.

[Duran 387]

What Bimmer was trying to say is that why would you buy a Ferrari to only drive around at 55mph? Why would you buy a 4x4 truck if you don't go off road? Its like paying top dollar or a ton of extra money on something you don't need.

If the OP wants loud on (x) watts then I suggest design the right install around the power he is going to run.. like everyone said above. The sub is just as important but not necessarily the pinnacle of the system. I have a BTL fl and with the sax 1200 it is screaming for more power... in my particular install that is. I have currently the 15 Q loaded back in and it is suffice .. almost perfect...with that same amp. It is at or close to its nominal potential with that wattage. The BTL needs 2000 plus watts to live up to its potential. Its just a waste knowing it can get louder but can't due to power restrictions. Like having that same Ferrari but driving it 2 miles down the road in a school zone every single day for the rest of my life. So what i'm trying to say is that for (x) wattage.. get the right sub for job. FI didn't run wattage specs for fun. They engineered their woofers to be prime in that wattage range. But if you got the extra headroom in power... use it wisely.

The BTL is more efficient, it WILL be more loud than any other woofer from Fi.

They don't have a "prime" wattage rating either, the ratings are the maximum recommended power applied given the thermal and mechanical handling built into the woofer.

[wrxinfx 2]

What Bimmer was trying to say is that why would you buy a Ferrari to only drive around at 55mph? Why would you buy a 4x4 truck if you don't go off road? Its like paying top dollar or a ton of extra money on something you don't need.

If the OP wants loud on (x) watts then I suggest design the right install around the power he is going to run.. like everyone said above. The sub is just as important but not necessarily the pinnacle of the system. I have a BTL fl and with the sax 1200 it is screaming for more power... in my particular install that is. I have currently the 15 Q loaded back in and it is suffice .. almost perfect...with that same amp. It is at or close to its nominal potential with that wattage. The BTL needs 2000 plus watts to live up to its potential. Its just a waste knowing it can get louder but can't due to power restrictions. Like having that same Ferrari but driving it 2 miles down the road in a school zone every single day for the rest of my life. So what i'm trying to say is that for (x) wattage.. get the right sub for job. FI didn't run wattage specs for fun. They engineered their woofers to be prime in that wattage range. But if you got the extra headroom in power... use it wisely.

The BTL is more efficient, it WILL be more loud than any other woofer from Fi.

They don't have a "prime" wattage rating either, the ratings are the maximum recommended power applied given the thermal and mechanical handling built into the woofer.

I know that. Given the proper wattage and set up the BTL WILL be louder. Which is what I stated above. You need more power to move the assembly of the BTL as compared to the smaller and softer spider pack of the Q. Well maybe not softer but less spiders means less mass in the assembly. I have both. I compare both... in my setup.. which is not ideal but given the same wattage the Q moves more. A decibel or 2 is negligible therefore its redundant to say (A) is louder than (B). Not my opinion.. just fact. I need a 3500 and then i'll give you an honest review as how loud the BTL will get.

Prime may not be the correct word. Ideal is. It has to be ideal in the situation and set up of the system. FI is conservative in their ratings due to additional options available. What they put on their site is ideal. It can handle more or less. Again... system and set up dependent.

[Duran 387]

Yes the Q would move more because of a more compliant suspension, that does not translate to being more loud though.

[wrxinfx 2]

Yes the Q would move more because of a more compliant suspension, that does not translate to being more loud though.

At certain frequencies at the given power it does .

ROE gave us a glimpse of the Q and BTL in their 12" woofer challenge a while ago. I don't take it as law since everything is install dependent and the motor structure of the speaker itself has changed. But it gives us an over all view of how each works in the optimal enclosure and with adequate wattage and takes the guesswork out of it for us with coherent and accurate results.

So to the OP ... choose what sub fits your needs. If you have tons of money.. BTL with tons of power. If you want to slam daily.. BL with a saz 1500 . If you want superb sound quality with awesome lows .. a Q with either a 1200 or 1500. All are loud and will make you lose your hearing. And in defense to Bimmerboy... my correlation between owning a super car and not being able to use it's speed still stands.. thats what he was trying to say. You all know we once bought the best speaker only to power it with Pyramid and Radio Shack amps...lol. I would get flamed if I ran my BTL with a rockford punch amp pushing 500 rms of a tape deck and complain why it doesn't slam..haha.

Sorry for straying off of the intended subject but Bimmer had a good point.

[///M5 2,833]

What Bimmer was trying to say is that why would you buy a Ferrari to only drive around at 55mph? Why would you buy a 4x4 truck if you don't go off road? Its like paying top dollar or a ton of extra money on something you don't need.

If the OP wants loud on (x) watts then I suggest design the right install around the power he is going to run.. like everyone said above. The sub is just as important but not necessarily the pinnacle of the system. I have a BTL fl and with the sax 1200 it is screaming for more power... in my particular install that is. I have currently the 15 Q loaded back in and it is suffice .. almost perfect...with that same amp. It is at or close to its nominal potential with that wattage. The BTL needs 2000 plus watts to live up to its potential. Its just a waste knowing it can get louder but can't due to power restrictions. Like having that same Ferrari but driving it 2 miles down the road in a school zone every single day for the rest of my life. So what i'm trying to say is that for (x) wattage.. get the right sub for job. FI didn't run wattage specs for fun. They engineered their woofers to be prime in that wattage range. But if you got the extra headroom in power... use it wisely.

The BTL is more efficient, it WILL be more loud than any other woofer from Fi.

They don't have a "prime" wattage rating either, the ratings are the maximum recommended power applied given the thermal and mechanical handling built into the woofer.

I know that. Given the proper wattage and set up the BTL WILL be louder. Which is what I stated above. You need more power to move the assembly of the BTL as compared to the smaller and softer spider pack of the Q. Well maybe not softer but less spiders means less mass in the assembly. I have both. I compare both... in my setup.. which is not ideal but given the same wattage the Q moves more. A decibel or 2 is negligible therefore its redundant to say (A) is louder than (B). Not my opinion.. just fact. I need a 3500 and then i'll give you an honest review as how loud the BTL will get.

Prime may not be the correct word. Ideal is. It has to be ideal in the situation and set up of the system. FI is conservative in their ratings due to additional options available. What they put on their site is ideal. It can handle more or less. Again... system and set up dependent.

NO. In an optimal box with ANY amount of power, the BTL will ALWAYS be louder than the Q. You DO NOT NEED "proper wattage". That is asinine. Your ideal comment is a joke as well.

What is even funnier here is that I am NOT recommending that the OP buy a BTL, I am just making sure that the misinformation that is being puked in this thread is refuted.

What Bimmer was trying to say is that why would you buy a Ferrari to only drive around at 55mph? Why would you buy a 4x4 truck if you don't go off road? Its like paying top dollar or a ton of extra money on something you don't need.

So 0-55 isn't fun in a Ferrari? You always drive all your cars only in one specific way? You have a particular vehicle for when you want to go fast, one for off road, and one for 55mph use? Is it more expensive to have three cars or to compromise and pick the one that fills the BIGGEST need you have first. Your analogy isn't helping you.

If the OP wants loud on (x) watts then I suggest design the right install around the power he is going to run.. like everyone said above. The sub is just as important but not necessarily the pinnacle of the system. I have a BTL fl and with the sax 1200 it is screaming for more power... in my particular install that is. I have currently the 15 Q loaded back in and it is suffice .. almost perfect...with that same amp. It is at or close to its nominal potential with that wattage. The BTL needs 2000 plus watts to live up to its potential. Its just a waste knowing it can get louder but can't due to power restrictions. Like having that same Ferrari but driving it 2 miles down the road in a school zone every single day for the rest of my life. So what i'm trying to say is that for (x) wattage.. get the right sub for job. FI didn't run wattage specs for fun. They engineered their woofers to be prime in that wattage range. But if you got the extra headroom in power... use it wisely.

If the Q is perfect,the BTL would still be louder. If the goal is louder how "perfect" is the Q when it isn't as loud.

WHO cares about living up to 'its' potential. To use your dumb analogy that would be like buying a Ferrari and only driving around at over 150mph because anything less isn't near its potential.

You also don't understand how drivers are engineered. There is NO prime "wattage range" that subs are designed to perform in, if they are it is a pretty shitty sub as most are designed to be mostly linear no matter what power. Otherwise when you have a quiet note in music compared to a loud note it would sound like shit since it wasn't designed to do that. Conveniently in speaker topologies that in particular would be hard to do and hard to screw up. So no, there is absolutely no prime wattage anything is designed for.

Neither of you obviously understand driver basics and you really shouldn't go on misleading posters. The OP here is probably really confused here now and understandably so; however, that too would be easy to solve. A quick read through the noob posting guidelines would allow the thread to actually move towards what he needs. As a quick review, removing the terms SPL and SQ would REALLY help us understand if they were expressed in a method that wasn't based on subjective interpretation of terms.

[bimmerboy 3]

Agreed the BTL will be louder than the Q.....

Still don't agree that a BTL is the best sub given the OP's goals and details (or lack thereof)

From a monetary point of view it is asinine to reccomend this guy a BTL when he only wants to be louder than a 10" alpine X woofer..... So if you are on a budget you might want to look into other options... I realize you haven't set any budget constraints, but it might be better to look at the bigger, overall cost of your whole system and take into account all the different pieces (amp, enclosure, wiriing, battery/h.o. alt if needed, etc).. If you truly don't have any budget limitations, props to you lol

Like myself and others have said, it really is all in the install and details.. things like an upgraded alternator (if needed), upgraded batteries (if needed), proper wiring, sufficient amp, proper enclosure size/tuning, sound deadening, proper enclosure placement, etc. all help in how your system sounds at the very end.... What sub you get is a small piece of a large puzzle in getting your system to sound optimal..

OP-I apologize if i spread any misinformation, didn't mean to... I'm continually learning as well...

carry on

Edited October 18, 2010 by bimmerboy

[///M5 2,833]

Agreed the BTL will be louder than the Q.....

Still don't agree that a BTL is the best sub given the OP's goals and details (or lack thereof)

From a monetary point of view it is asinine to reccomend this guy a BTL when he only wants to be louder than a 10" alpine X woofer..... So if you are on a budget you might want to look into other options... I realize you haven't set any budget constraints, but it might be better to look at the bigger, overall cost of your whole system and take into account all the different pieces (amp, enclosure, wiriing, battery/h.o. alt if needed, etc).. If you truly don't have any budget limitations, props to you lol

No one has said the BTL will be the best for his goals. I just refuted others claims on it as a driver. The OP hasn't defined his goals INCLUDING budget. Considering there hasn't been one it doesn't come into play. Just because you don't need to spend the money doesn't mean it isn't right for you to do so.

[wrxinfx 2]

M5... How old are you? Your responses are futile attempts to sound intelligent. You are very good at making others feel like idiots is not working. We are all here to help while you and your high post counts are just to "attempt" to make you look good. Not working.

To the op.. get what you want. Listen to those who HAVE the subs themselves and used them in real world applications with lots of play time. I haven't heard the SMD but would I tell you to buy 2 of them?

This is not a flame response or any other statement. We are all here to help each other with problems or questions. I have first hand experiences with the SSD, BTL, and Q (soon to be BL also)... i've heard a BL though... and love every single one of them. I share my knowledge with you and others. I wouldn't have posted if I thought I had nothing good to contribute. Share your knowledge not rebut everyone's claims. This is not a pissing match as to who is smarter but to who can assist in the one who is in need of assistance.

Please let us know your decision. I highly doubt you would be unhappy with any one of them.

[manrossdamn 57]

I LOVE MAH QUEEEE

lol

Hope you make a good decision, bru

[///M5 2,833]

M5... How old are you? Your responses are futile attempts to sound intelligent. You are very good at making others feel like idiots is not working. We are all here to help while you and your high post counts are just to "attempt" to make you look good. Not working.

I am 4, look at my profile. lol. I could care less about my post counts, seems funny that you do. Helping implies one major thing and that is that you not only listen to the OP but try to understand his true goals. You haven't done that yet.

This is not a flame response or any other statement. We are all here to help each other with problems or questions. I have first hand experiences with the SSD, BTL, and Q (soon to be BL also)... i've heard a BL though... and love every single one of them. I share my knowledge with you and others. I wouldn't have posted if I thought I had nothing good to contribute. Share your knowledge not rebut everyone's claims. This is not a pissing match as to who is smarter but to who can assist in the one who is in need of assistance.

When you post misinformation it isn't helping. Unlike a lot of the posts in this thread I am exactly trying to help the one who is in need of assistance. I tried to get a response to his real needs and then a bunch of others started to puke out information that wasn't right or helpful that needed to be rebutted...unless of course you are proposing that subjective, uninformed opinions are helpful.