2002 Mercedes C230 kompressor coupe

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

 I guess a good question to ask at this point is what music do you predominately listen to?  Reason I ask is you are going to get  different suggestions as  Jay listens to a lot of chopped and screwed and five listens to a lot of jazz an instrumental.  So yeah Tell us what you listen to and  speakers you have heard that you thought sounded loud/ good.

[bigrank916 72]

On 5/20/2017 at 6:53 PM, j-roadtatts said:

 I guess a good question to ask at this point is what music do you predominately listen to?  Reason I ask is you are going to get  different suggestions as  Jay listens to a lot of chopped and screwed and five listens to a lot of jazz an instrumental.  So yeah Tell us what you listen to and  speakers you have heard that you thought sounded loud/ good.

I listen to a lot of rap. Not chopped and screwed but more like Jeezy and Gucci. I still love old gansta rap and 90s Rnb. Classic rock. Some trap sometimes. New age country and old. Elvis. Its eclectic. Mostly rap tho lol.

[bigrank916 72]

4 hours ago, jcarter1885 said:

Yeah the Evils are pretty damn good and I was skeptical at first with it's specs vs other drivers I have used. When I first installed my one Evil to do some testing, I also installed a used Pioneer double-din that I got from my cousin. The midbass alone is what stood out to me, for some reason it seemed like I had subs again. Come to find out that my cousin had a customize preset set on Performance on the EQ and it didnt reset when I isntalled the h\u. It just showed me the potential of these drivers. Since I have very efficient and loud tweeters, I dont need my mids to play that loud or into higher frequencies. Just midrange output, the Eminence wins. But output over a larger bandwith without sacrficing the tonal sound and clear midrange, the Evil wins. 

 

I also read up on facebook, where SSA posted about a guy doing a swap from his PRVs to Evils and loved them. Yes with the 80PRS you have great processing, so need to worry there.

I have them in my wish list so I will most likely grab a pair just to see what they sound like. If they don't work out for what I need in this car, I can use them elsewhere. 

I had really liked the review that JBLcamry left on the PRV neo mids. He was pretty thorough and seemed to enjoy them a lot. I read plenty about everyone loving the evils too tho. I'm still pretty far away from the door process but when I get there, I might try a few cheap options from parts express to get a feel for what I want.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

  All right first, don't let the octave thing confuse you.  One octave up or down is simply a double or half the frequency.  So an octave below 100Hz would be 50Hz and one above would be 200Hz... then 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, 12,800.  The number doesnt actually matter,  it's simply half or double.  1/3 octave is the point the human ear will pick up a change in pitch/tone.  

  For our purposes today we will use the scale that will appear on your crossover and your Eq.  I believe that head unit lets you select 1/3 octaves. Starting at the bottom 25, 31.5, 40, 50, 63, 80, 100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 500..... 1250, 1600, 2000, 2500, 3150, 4000, 5000, 6300, 8000, 10,000, 12,500..... you'll see the span between numbers gets larger the higher you go,  but there is no more "information" in that large span then in the small span.  There are basically three notes in each octave. 

  So on to how this pertains to speaker selection.  The tweeter being the most finicky so will start there.  A tweeter with an FS of 1250Hz,  Will not like to be crossed lower than 2500Hz.  One with an FS of 1500Hz, won't like being crossed lower than 3.15K.  One with an Fs of 1000Hz,  Will dig low and play comfortably at 2000Hz. Now a true mid range speaker will have no problem playing up to either of those points, (and beyond) and still sound good . A speaker that is considered more of a midbass will also play up to those points, but will sound poopy.  So if you were looking at a speaker that is more of a true midbass, you all want a tweeter that can dig low.  Same with a subwoofer,  it may be play up to 500Hz,  but will some poopy anywhere after 80Hz. 

  Now on the personal preferences and what I think you would like.  Let's start at the subwoofer,  I will assume Jay has his crossed at 80Hz,  and five has his crossed and 50Hz.  And I know I have mine crossed and 63Hz.  The reason Jay has his crossed high is he is mating to mid range speaker, and wants the most "weight" he can from the subwoofer.  There is less detail in chopped and screwed and rap music.  The reason five would cross his at 50Hz is he is after more clarity and smoothness than weight, as jazz is very smooth and detailed.  Next I will assume Jay has his mids crossed it 100Hz, and five has his crossed at 63Hz. Jays mid range speaker will be more head cracking, if it's not trying to play low notes that are covered by the subwoofer.  We will Assume five has a mid that is considered both a midbass and mid range.  One that plays smooth across the whole frequency band,  and is not peaky in the mid range. Fives midbass/midrange will sound smoother than than subwoofer,  and not play head cracking in the mid range.  On to the tweeter.  I will assume Jay has his crossed that 3.15K,  and fives are crossed at 2K.  Jay already has his mid range covered,  and is more after ear blistering highs.  Jay most likely cares less about soundstage and more about loudness.  Again five probably cares more about clarity, detail and soundstage.  Just like between the subwoofer and mid,  fives tweeter will play more detailed and clear  then the mid at the same frequencys.  Also the tweeter is the part of the equation that can be moved around the car,  to achieve a better soundstage. 

  I would personally think you are probably leaning more towards Jay's camp.  Five has ridiculously discerning ears, listens at a more moderate level than most and he hates rap. 

  I fall in the middle because I listen to just about everything,  from too short and easy-e,  reba McEntire to Randy Travis,   Otis redding to Elton John and slayer to lamb of god. 

 One other Added note, a speaker will handle double power each octave higher it is crossed. Jays speakers will play lower, but handle more power to get loud crossed higher. 

 Hope that helps. Let use know what you think.

[///M5 2,833]

Hey, I don't hate rap but I do hate bad rap.

One other warning.  You were discussing a 3 way before and the 80prs will only do a 2 way.  Means without adding more processing you cannot do a midbass, midrange and tweeter.

Btw, I also don't expect you want to be in my camp...but I came from yours but am just old now.  I would never recommend you do what I do but don't want you to have the growing pains I did either.

[bigrank916 72]

Ok I think I'm getting this. So lets just say I do a 2 way active since a 3 way isn't possible due to processing capabilities of my 80PRS.

Now my choices are matching up a midbass or midrange with a tweeter. I had an idea to use 4 evil midbass in the doors and evil tweets in the sail and A pillar. From what I've been reading, the midbass would be crossed around 100-120hz. Having a more true midbass driver I need a tweet that can play low. I know they are both SSA Evil but it sure seems like a match to me. Then cross the tweets at around 1.5khz. The sub i would say could be crossed at 63hz. 

Both mids would be in the driver door, one at the front and one at the back. The rear one will be the hardest to fit and technically it sits behind me and not sure if that would be a waste or not. There is no rear speakers besides those and I will be keeping the back seat so not sure how that might sound to passengers in the rear. Even then its at their feet. 

Idk what do you guys think of this? Am I on track?

 

 

[jcarter1885 995]

I would just unplug the rears and leave them their, put that money elsewhere. Unless you plan on glassing your front doors and doing a pair of evil mids, just a thought. Or start with one in the factory location and see if that suffices.

[bigrank916 72]

2 hours ago, jcarter1885 said:

I would just unplug the rears and leave them their, put that money elsewhere. Unless you plan on glassing your front doors and doing a pair of evil mids, just a thought. Or start with one in the factory location and see if that suffices.

The thot of glassing my front doors has crossed my mind for sure. I already removed the all the speakers so I dont think I wanna put back in crappy ones just to cover the hole. It wouldn't be that much to add the second set in the doors and my ocd tells me I HAVE to put something there, even tho it prob wouldn't make a difference lol. I'm going to start with a pair to play around with for fitment and sound. Then grab a dedicated midrange and try that. 

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

  You're on the right track,  just know the final X over points will be based more on what sounds good and blends best once installed. Getting the vocals to sound good is usually a big part of the equation, as it's  like getting four people to all talk coherently all at once. One more reason not to have rears, as then it's six people all talking at once. If everything isn't dialed to blend just right (or close lol) you will get distractive distortion/ cancellation at the crossover point.

 The explanation in the post above was just to give you a bearing on speaker selection. Not a guideline on setting points.

 With that said, 1500 is pretty low for a tweeter, and you will get waaaay more output from the 6.5" mid in that range. I think my mids are at 2500, and tweets at 3200. The mids would play way higher (and still sound good) but they have a breakup node at 4K. Without individual eq for each speaker it's a no go for me. I'm not positive, but think your hu may have eq for each individual channel. 

  Put it this way, the mid is the workhorse. The tweets are just there to give a little sparkle on top. (The top couple octaves) Same with the sub, it's just there to fill the very bottom octave. Think how many octaves that leaves the mid playing. 

 

 

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

I would even say the tweet is barely  playing an octave and a half, as most music doesn't have a whole lot going on after 12-15k.

[bigrank916 72]

Ok so I had some down time these last few months on this project due to construction going on around my house and not having the usual space to work in. Sucks tho cause now its gonna be cold and rainy but I wanna get this done bad! 

I just pulled the trigger tonight on all the goodies. Besides the new alt/batt if needed and wire etc, I will have everything I need to finish this build. Time to get crackin!

Sub- SSA Xcon 15"

Sub amp- SoundQubed 2200D

Mids/Highs amp- NVX JAD800.4

Mids- SSA Evil 6.5"

Tweets- SSA Evil 1"

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Good to hear you are back at it... and it's GO time!

Excellent choice on the speakers and tweets. They have great power response and flexibility for blending. They should fit your tastes very nicely. Have a set I've been enjoying the myself.

[Notorious97200 339]

Back on tracks !

Waiting for more.

SSA speakers all around. Good choice !

 

[SS Teacher 177]

16 hours ago, bigrank916 said:

Ok so I had some down time these last few months on this project due to construction going on around my house and not having the usual space to work in. Sucks tho cause now its gonna be cold and rainy but I wanna get this done bad! 

I just pulled the trigger tonight on all the goodies. Besides the new alt/batt if needed and wire etc, I will have everything I need to finish this build. Time to get crackin!

Sub- SSA Xcon 15"

Sub amp- SoundQubed 2200D

Mids/Highs amp- NVX JAD800.4

Mids- SSA Evil 6.5"

Tweets- SSA Evil 1"

I'm running the same setup except for an 10" XCON and a RF tT1500bdcp!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Liking this topic for sure.

[SS Teacher 177]

On 5/26/2017 at 6:28 PM, bigrank916 said:

Ok I think I'm getting this. So lets just say I do a 2 way active since a 3 way isn't possible due to processing capabilities of my 80PRS.

Now my choices are matching up a midbass or midrange with a tweeter. I had an idea to use 4 evil midbass in the doors and evil tweets in the sail and A pillar. From what I've been reading, the midbass would be crossed around 100-120hz. Having a more true midbass driver I need a tweet that can play low. I know they are both SSA Evil but it sure seems like a match to me. Then cross the tweets at around 1.5khz. The sub i would say could be crossed at 63hz. 

Both mids would be in the driver door, one at the front and one at the back. The rear one will be the hardest to fit and technically it sits behind me and not sure if that would be a waste or not. There is no rear speakers besides those and I will be keeping the back seat so not sure how that might sound to passengers in the rear. Even then its at their feet. 

Idk what do you guys think of this? Am I on track?

I have the Evil tweets in the "tombstone pods" on the Wrangler, but the Evil mids are in pods in the dash (about knee level) facing me (I think that's "on axis").  I crossed the Evil tweets at 1500 and wasn't digging it.  I was much happier at 2500 and found the Evil mids blended in nicely at 2500; it was a lot smoother and warmer overall.  I'm still new to running active and need to do some eq'ing, but I am very happy with the Evil mids and tweets run active, I think you will be too.

 

 

[Notorious97200 339]

2500 for the tweeters : that seems ok.

1500 : that's low IMO.

Good luck.

 

[bigrank916 72]

Thanks guys I've always wanted the SSA line. I bought an Icon for my daughter but she blew that so it needs a recone which I will be attempting someday. Now I will have my own  So far I have the tweets, mids, and the sub amp. Still waiting on the rest but not needed yet. 

Reassembled some of the interior now. Just floorboards and front seats. Need to keep everything else open so I can run some wires under the center console. I thot about running them under the floor but decided against it. I will be running all my own wires to the speakers and bought plenty of that and new RCAs. I have a lot of old stuff but I wanted to go fresh on this build to make sure I had no issues with crap wiring.

I also picked up a 500 amp relay isolator. No I really didn't need one that big but it was cheaper than the 200 amp, go figure lol. I would like to keep the stereo on it own battery since this car has so much shit in the electrical dept already. I will be using a XS D3100 in the rear for the isolator so hopefully this will keep me from buying a HO alt for $800 that wouldn't be useful if I sell the car or get rid of it. The D3100 always can transfer I guess.

Also grabbed some thermal barrier for the headliner. Once that comes in I can reattach the headliner and hopefully that goes smoothly. I've been dreading that part of reassembly the most...

[bigrank916 72]

Would I benefit at all by getting an Alpine H701/C701 processor for my 80PRS head unit? I prob don't need it but I want it lol

[///M5 2,833]

7 minutes ago, bigrank916 said:

Would I benefit at all by getting an Alpine H701/C701 processor for my 80PRS head unit? I prob don't need it but I want it lol

To do what?  If you don't know the answer is no.

[bigrank916 72]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

To do what?  If you don't know the answer is no.

Always the strong voice of reason. And no idk lol

[Notorious97200 339]

A 500 amp relay isolator ? That will need lots of current to blow/pop.

 

[bigrank916 72]

12 hours ago, Notorious97200 said:

A 500 amp relay isolator ? That will need lots of current to blow/pop.

 

Should I not try to use it?

[Notorious97200 339]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:50 PM, bigrank916 said:

Should I not try to use it?

I'm a too bad electrician to tell you that!

Sorry  

 

[bigrank916 72]

Been slowly getting at this build as the new year comes along. I installed the new headliner and it looks great. Still trying to find the damn wires to hook up the HU tho. 

I bought a new Bosch OEM alt for it and installed that about a month ago as well because the old one failed even tho it wasn't being driven. 18 years old tho so it went thru its lifespan I guess.