Can someone from DC Power Contact ME!!!!

[edouble101 314]

You mean the post where Kyle said he was going to send me a shipping slip from them so I can send this back for a full refund. Because They do not know how to wire up the alternators to achieve 18v....And the bracket and pump was shipped to some one else so they do not have it to ship to me......

Yes that was his post.

He admitted fault and was regretfully giving you your money back. That sucks for you and DC Power.

Hopefully in the future you will have a positive experience with DC Power.

[DC Power Kyle 21]

Yes, I actually removed it to rewrite it but my day got extremely busy as usual. Randy, Shoot me an PM with your email address so I can send you the call tags to get this taken care of.

Edit: I see your PM.

[DC Power Rob 4]

You mean the post where Kyle said he was going to send me a shipping slip from them so I can send this back for a full refund. Because They do not know how to wire up the alternators to achieve 18v....And the bracket and pump was shipped to some one else so they do not have it to ship to me...

Actually, it has nothing to do with not knowing how to wire the alternators. Its actually very simple to do that. It as everything to do with the rectifiers in those alternators having avalanche diodes in them, and those particular ones not being able to handle 19v. See, 23v avalanche diodes will handle ~15.8 or so before they start clipping and popping, at anything above that forget it. For those that dont know, avalanche (zener) diodes short excess voltage to ground and act as a clamp for transient voltage spikes in the system. When you go over that voltage, its essentially the same as sending a massively clipped signal to an amp and subs and they go POOF!..

Not to mention that as Kyle said the ~$500 worth of power steering pump, pulley, and bracket that decided to go missing from here that I'm not exactly keen to have to replace, again. Regardless, the alternators as they sit for you are paperweights unless you plan to switch to 12v which I know you don't. Ergo, they have to come back one way or another... I've called and called and called and called and never get through to talk to you so it makes it a little difficult to give updates if you cant ever speak to anyone...

[[email protected] 6]

wow i cant believe how long ago this post was from..... guess i should keep looking for my next h/0 alt

[DC Power Rob 4]

wow i cant believe how long ago this post was from..... guess i should keep looking for my next h/0 alt

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out..

Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

[[email protected] 6]

well also you guys only make a 180hp for my car and im going to be running around 2500 watts and i dont think that would be big enough for what im doing

[RHoughton1 6]

I'm sorry I'm done talking on the phone about this. I get nothing but excuses......And I'm sorry that you ship out thousands upon thousand of alternators......But if you cannot supply something the why sell it......I have not received the call tags Kyle was inquiring about..And yes at this point I would like a refund. And I have yet to see it either....

[DC Power Rob 4]

I'm sorry I'm done talking on the phone about this. I get nothing but excuses......And I'm sorry that you ship out thousands upon thousand of alternators......But if you cannot supply something the why sell it......I have not received the call tags Kyle was inquiring about..And yes at this point I would like a refund. And I have yet to see it either....

You weren't given excuses, just the facts. If you choose to think they were excuses, so be it.. You cant get mad at not being able to get ahold of me when I've called you more times I can count in the last few months to give you updates, it works both ways Randy.. As for the return labels, check your junk box.. If you dont have them already, that's probably where they ended up... I know they were sent though.. If you dont have them tomorrow, call Kyle and ask him to send them again.. As soon as we get them back I will send you a check and you have my apologies for such a bad experience..

[DC Power Rob 4]

well also you guys only make a 180hp for my car and im going to be running around 2500 watts and i dont think that would be big enough for what im doing

The 180 we use in those will run ~200 and idle performance will blow away anything bigger.. If Kyle can run 3500 watts on one, you can run 2500.. You dont always need as much alternator as you think you do, and you also have to take into account the *real* numbers. Lets just say a 220 amp Ford based H/O will only do 150 amps hot (and only maybe 60-70 at idle on your car with overdrive pulleys) because of the heat they generate, but our 220 will do ~185 all day long with 130 at idle, and our ~180 will do ~160 all day long and 120 at idle on stock pulleys.. Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency... An small, efficient alt will undoubtedly perform better than a bigger, higher rated but less efficient one 100% of the time, especially at idle..

[KingManny 0]

What a mess...

[RHoughton1 6]

First off this isn't a marriage it doesn't work both ways......I purchased something from you and you can't deliver..And you have be nut if you think I'm going to send this back with out any money.and I dont want a check.....you can send it pay pal or wire transfer .....also its funny I have over 30 drivers that call me 24 hours a day and you are the only one that can't get me....and yes you did call today and I was on the phone both times you called. but like i said this is bullshit..you sold me something over two years ago and can't deliver and i still have to back and forth with you to get my money back.

[RHoughton1 6]

And my e-mail goes to my personal server there is no junk mail box there. and I did not receive the call tags.

[lee 2]

[bassahaulic 155]

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out..

Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

How's this, I need a large alt for my van, send me one, I will verify it works properly has proper output and it durable. Then I will send you the money, would you do that?

[Big E 4]

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out..

Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

It sounds to me like this was an intricate one-off piece that DC Power wanted to ensure would be perfect for the customer the first time it was installed by the customer, so it would make sense that it takes some time and reworking to get it perfect. It's a shame to see the consistent fail in DC's suppliers and outside shops and, while that is out of their control, I think damage control could have been done sooner by apologizing for their inability to fill the order due to these shortcomings in their third-party affiliates. The fact that DC kept the customer believing the order would be filled in a timely manner is really what made a bad situation a horrible one.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Big E

[DC Power Rob 4]

First off this isn't a marriage it doesn't work both ways......I purchased something from you and you can't deliver..And you have be nut if you think I'm going to send this back with out any money.and I dont want a check.....you can send it pay pal or wire transfer .....also its funny I have over 30 drivers that call me 24 hours a day and you are the only one that can't get me....and yes you did call today and I was on the phone both times you called. but like i said this is bullshit..you sold me something over two years ago and can't deliver and i still have to back and forth with you to get my money back.

It's not that we cant deliver Randy, at this point it's that I *wont* deliver. Nothing is ever going to make this situation good, no matter what we do.. I told you straight up the last time we spoke a rough timeframe would be for me to send you the rest, with memorial day in the middle, waiting on GM to me me the rest of the parts it took longer. When we finally got that done, boxed and ready to leave, the box disappears? I mean seriously, I couldn't make this shit up.. That is when I told Kyle to just offer you the refund, because at this point this whole ordeal just in hard cost has cost us more than what we sold it to you for, and I'm not going to bleed any more, and that doesn't even account for the business this whole fiasco has cost us which I utterly shudder to think of..

So, here's the deal.. I will have Kyle print the labels tomorrow, put them in an envelope, and FedEx them to you, that way I know whether you really did get them or not. Next, our return policy is pretty simple, you send us product, we send you money. That is how EVERY company works I know of. if you think for a second that I'm going to send you over $2000 without having my $3k worth of product back, you're crazy. I have absolutely no guarantee that we will get it back in either a timely manner, or in the perfect condition it was sent to you, and at this point I'm not going to take that chance. On the other hand, you have EVERY reasonable expectation that we will send you the money in good faith, because as a business in good standing (and especially in this situation) we have everything to lose by NOT sending you a full refund.. You wouldn't call up Apple and tell them hey, my $2500 macbook pro needs to be returned, give me a credit and I'll send you the laptop.. It just doesn't work that way, not with us, not with anyone..

So, I'll make sure your labels go out tomorrow, when you get them put them on the boxes, and send them back and i will gladly give you a full refund. If you don't want to send them back and this arrangement doesn't work for you, then don't send them back, it's your choice and your money at this point.

[KingManny 0]

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out..

Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

It sounds to me like this was an intricate one-off piece that DC Power wanted to ensure would be perfect for the customer the first time it was installed by the customer, so it would make sense that it takes some time and reworking to get it perfect. It's a shame to see the consistent fail in DC's suppliers and outside shops and, while that is out of their control, I think damage control could have been done sooner by apologizing for their inability to fill the order due to these shortcomings in their third-party affiliates. The fact that DC kept the customer believing the order would be filled in a timely manner is really what made a bad situation a horrible one.

Agreed

[DC Power Rob 4]

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out.. Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you? How's this, I need a large alt for my van, send me one, I will verify it works properly has proper output and it durable. Then I will send you the money, would you do that?

Why shouldn't you? We have thousands of happy customers, why shouldn't you be one of them? Not trying to be crass, but there has never, ever been any question about what our alternators are capable.. If you want the best, we have it.. If you want something big, we have that too.. Durable, last time I checked our return rate was hovering around .05% (5/1000) which is unheard of for even stock alternators. If you want an alternator, call us, order it and ask that we don't charge until we ship. Pretty simple..

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out.. Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

It sounds to me like this was an intricate one-off piece that DC Power wanted to ensure would be perfect for the customer the first time it was installed by the customer, so it would make sense that it takes some time and reworking to get it perfect. It's a shame to see the consistent fail in DC's suppliers and outside shops and, while that is out of their control, I think damage control could have been done sooner by apologizing for their inability to fill the order due to these shortcomings in their third-party affiliates. The fact that DC kept the customer believing the order would be filled in a timely manner is really what made a bad situation a horrible one.

Pretty much you hit that on the head.. Yes, we took our time on this because something this specialized cant be the only thing you work on, so it has to be worked on at certain times.. All in all, between waiting on outside parties, there was probably 2 months time lost in here once we started working in earnest on it.. Other than parts that disappeared and the 16v issue, this was probably the single best engineered bracket I ever did. And when I get it back, I'm going to frame the MF'r and put it on my wall in my office! In a nutshell, trying to do something no sane human would try to do in the first place usually ends up being problematic, and this one ended very disasterously for us, lesson learned, trust me..

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out.. Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

It sounds to me like this was an intricate one-off piece that DC Power wanted to ensure would be perfect for the customer the first time it was installed by the customer, so it would make sense that it takes some time and reworking to get it perfect. It's a shame to see the consistent fail in DC's suppliers and outside shops and, while that is out of their control, I think damage control could have been done sooner by apologizing for their inability to fill the order due to these shortcomings in their third-party affiliates. The fact that DC kept the customer believing the order would be filled in a timely manner is really what made a bad situation a horrible one.

Agreed

Again, hit on the head...

[DSKtim 0]

It's not that we cant deliver Randy, at this point it's that I *wont* deliver. Nothing is ever going to make this situation good, no matter what we do.. I told you straight up the last time we spoke a rough timeframe would be for me to send you the rest, with memorial day in the middle, waiting on GM to me me the rest of the parts it took longer. When we finally got that done, boxed and ready to leave, the box disappears? I mean seriously, I couldn't make this shit up.. That is when I told Kyle to just offer you the refund, because at this point this whole ordeal just in hard cost has cost us more than what we sold it to you for, and I'm not going to bleed any more, and that doesn't even account for the business this whole fiasco has cost us which I utterly shudder to think of..

So, here's the deal.. I will have Kyle print the labels tomorrow, put them in an envelope, and FedEx them to you, that way I know whether you really did get them or not. Next, our return policy is pretty simple, you send us product, we send you money. That is how EVERY company works I know of. if you think for a second that I'm going to send you over $2000 without having my $3k worth of product back, you're crazy. I have absolutely no guarantee that we will get it back in either a timely manner, or in the perfect condition it was sent to you, and at this point I'm not going to take that chance. On the other hand, you have EVERY reasonable expectation that we will send you the money in good faith, because as a business in good standing (and especially in this situation) we have everything to lose by NOT sending you a full refund.. You wouldn't call up Apple and tell them hey, my $2500 macbook pro needs to be returned, give me a credit and I'll send you the laptop.. It just doesn't work that way, not with us, not with anyone..

So, I'll make sure your labels go out tomorrow, when you get them put them on the boxes, and send them back and i will gladly give you a full refund. If you don't want to send them back and this arrangement doesn't work for you, then don't send them back, it's your choice and your money at this point

Ironic statement

Edited June 24, 2011 by DSKtim

[Big E 4]

It's not that we cant deliver Randy, at this point it's that I *wont* deliver. Nothing is ever going to make this situation good, no matter what we do.. I told you straight up the last time we spoke a rough timeframe would be for me to send you the rest, with memorial day in the middle, waiting on GM to me me the rest of the parts it took longer. When we finally got that done, boxed and ready to leave, the box disappears? I mean seriously, I couldn't make this shit up.. That is when I told Kyle to just offer you the refund, because at this point this whole ordeal just in hard cost has cost us more than what we sold it to you for, and I'm not going to bleed any more, and that doesn't even account for the business this whole fiasco has cost us which I utterly shudder to think of..

So, here's the deal.. I will have Kyle print the labels tomorrow, put them in an envelope, and FedEx them to you, that way I know whether you really did get them or not. Next, our return policy is pretty simple, you send us product, we send you money. That is how EVERY company works I know of. if you think for a second that I'm going to send you over $2000 without having my $3k worth of product back, you're crazy. I have absolutely no guarantee that we will get it back in either a timely manner, or in the perfect condition it was sent to you, and at this point I'm not going to take that chance. On the other hand, you have EVERY reasonable expectation that we will send you the money in good faith, because as a business in good standing (and especially in this situation) we have everything to lose by NOT sending you a full refund.. You wouldn't call up Apple and tell them hey, my $2500 macbook pro needs to be returned, give me a credit and I'll send you the laptop.. It just doesn't work that way, not with us, not with anyone..

So, I'll make sure your labels go out tomorrow, when you get them put them on the boxes, and send them back and i will gladly give you a full refund. If you don't want to send them back and this arrangement doesn't work for you, then don't send them back, it's your choice and your money at this point

Ironic statement

You act as though DC was sending the customer an off-the-shelf production product that should be readily available. It's clear that this wasn't the case, but the OP was quite vague in all of his responses to try and hide this fact and taint the reputation of the company. Was it an excessive wait? Yes, absolutely, there's no doubting this. Was it a product that no other company would dare undertake? I assume yes, or the OP would have demanded a refund a year ago and taken his work elsewhere.

Should this incident dissuade you from doing business with DC Power? I would say no, so long as you're not doing a one-off custom. It sounds as though they are/were understaffed and under-equipped to handle such a product themselves (though I believe I read they are looking to get the tools necessary to do this in house?). Having been around when they first joined the boards, I can say for sure that they would not have been invited to SSA had they not a stellar reputation and customer service. This is a sad incident but I believe Rob and Kyle have learned a huge business lesson from this and I don't think you'll see this issue again.

[RHoughton1 6]

Your right this was not an off the shelf product.. But lets shed some light on this.....the bracket I got fits a 1998 Chevy truck not a 1994...so on a 1998 Chevy truck there has been multiple alternators done several times"Steve Meade-Johnathon Price just to name a couple" I admit they have 4 alternators I ordered 5...But on the same engine as mine there have been setups with 6 alternators done.So the plan was to redo the front of the engine by putting a bracket off of a 1998 Chevy truck onto mine. Which means i would need a new power steering pump bracket and would personally have to have custom power steering lines made along with a remote reservoir to be able to access the power steering fluid. So yes its custom. but over 2 years to get my product and they ship alternators that are 12 volts not 18 volts that i ordered. and no Chevy bracket or pump and then the Thread I made" this one" was removed from the site.So DC Power had no intention in full filling my order they just sent me some shit in a box in hopes that would quiet me up. And Rob if I called Apple and ordered a Mac Book I would not take two years to get and I would at least get every thing I ordered so at this point I have no intentions in sending anything back with out my money.And as far as revenue you lost because of this..this is a problem you created you said it could be done and could not deliver so instead of admitting it and moving on you not me drug this Shit out over two years so you have no one to blame but yourself and your actions for this as i know there are more than one machine shop in California..you should of manned up and refunded my money over a year ago when I asked....and yes I asked for my money back and every time you told me it was almost finished and would be shipping within the week.

I ordered these alternators from DC Power when they were on Steve Meade Designs. and their customer service seemed to be top notch. They were giving free alternators to customers of other company's and helping them out. i don't like starting shit but I also don't like it when some one lies to me and sends me shit that they cannot get to work..

And I like how you said :

"Pretty much you hit that on the head.. Yes, we took our time on this because something this specialized cant be the only thing you work on, so it has to be worked on at certain times.. All in all, between waiting on outside parties, there was probably 2 months time lost in here once we started working in earnest on it.. Other than parts that disappeared and the 16v issue, this was probably the single best engineered bracket I ever did. And when I get it back, I'm going to frame the MF'r and put it on my wall in my office! In a nutshell, trying to do something no sane human would try to do in the first place usually ends up being problematic, and this one ended very disasterously for us, lesson learned, trust me.."

Hell Iraggi took your bracket of 4 alternators off of Johnathon Price's truck and built a bracket for 6 alts in a month not 2 years...so I don't know how it has not been done yet...Some one one upped me while your still pucking around.

So in a nut shell if you don't want to send my money back Ii will take care of the problem the only way Ii know how.as I know the statute of limitations in California is 3 years.

[DC Power Rob 4]

You essentially called me a thief, so Fuck you Randy is all I have to say to that.. Your labels went out today, you don't want to send them back, then do what you gotta do..

***for the record, nobody has done a 3/4/5/6 alternator setup on that engine for that setup, it's not possible to do it with the way everything is mounted to the engine on the stock front end accessory drive.. If it was as easy as you seem to think it is, it would have already been done.. You don't believe me, you go right ahead and do it yourself without changing the entire FEAD to the '96-'00 Vortec. Dominick didn't one up us by doing 6 alts, he had the one luxury we didn't have, he had the GD vehicle.. It's pretty easy to do things when you actually have a vehicle sitting in front of you, it's kind of hard when it's several thousand miles away.. Had we actually had that luxury, I promise it wouldn't have lingered, same goes for your instance...**

Edited June 25, 2011 by DC Power Rob

[diablo_331 23]

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out.. Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you? How's this, I need a large alt for my van, send me one, I will verify it works properly has proper output and it durable. Then I will send you the money, would you do that?

Why shouldn't you? We have thousands of happy customers, why shouldn't you be one of them? Not trying to be crass, but there has never, ever been any question about what our alternators are capable.. If you want the best, we have it.. If you want something big, we have that too.. Durable, last time I checked our return rate was hovering around .05% (5/1000) which is unheard of for even stock alternators. If you want an alternator, call us, order it and ask that we don't charge until we ship. Pretty simple..

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out.. Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

It sounds to me like this was an intricate one-off piece that DC Power wanted to ensure would be perfect for the customer the first time it was installed by the customer, so it would make sense that it takes some time and reworking to get it perfect. It's a shame to see the consistent fail in DC's suppliers and outside shops and, while that is out of their control, I think damage control could have been done sooner by apologizing for their inability to fill the order due to these shortcomings in their third-party affiliates. The fact that DC kept the customer believing the order would be filled in a timely manner is really what made a bad situation a horrible one.

Pretty much you hit that on the head.. Yes, we took our time on this because something this specialized cant be the only thing you work on, so it has to be worked on at certain times.. All in all, between waiting on outside parties, there was probably 2 months time lost in here once we started working in earnest on it.. Other than parts that disappeared and the 16v issue, this was probably the single best engineered bracket I ever did. And when I get it back, I'm going to frame the MF'r and put it on my wall in my office! In a nutshell, trying to do something no sane human would try to do in the first place usually ends up being problematic, and this one ended very disasterously for us, lesson learned, trust me..

Herein lies the problem, it doesnt matter that we still ship HUNDREDS of orders every month, on time, it doesn't matter that we still build hands down the best alternators in the business, the publics perception is exactly as what you just said. Im sorry if you feel like you need to shop elsewhere for an alternator, but you'll be missing out.. Which is why I just offered him a refund, better for both parties to move on...

But you can't even get this handled so why would I trust any amount of my money with you?

It sounds to me like this was an intricate one-off piece that DC Power wanted to ensure would be perfect for the customer the first time it was installed by the customer, so it would make sense that it takes some time and reworking to get it perfect. It's a shame to see the consistent fail in DC's suppliers and outside shops and, while that is out of their control, I think damage control could have been done sooner by apologizing for their inability to fill the order due to these shortcomings in their third-party affiliates. The fact that DC kept the customer believing the order would be filled in a timely manner is really what made a bad situation a horrible one.

Agreed

Again, hit on the head...

Personally, I always judge a company on how they react when something goes wrong. The way DC Power handled this insured that they will never see my business. Edited June 25, 2011 by diablo

[RHoughton1 6]

another chapter in the shipping saga 2+ years

Yeah, well they're shipping today so consider the saga over and done with....

Me calling you a thief.....What do you call it when i send you money and you don't send everything i payed for. and what you did ship me is useless it's not 18 volts and cannot be made to got o 18 volts.

and here where you said you were done... so how was the correct items going to be shipped if you said you were over and done with......

[DC Power Rob 4]

another chapter in the shipping saga 2+ years

Yeah, well they're shipping today so consider the saga over and done with....

Me calling you a thief.....What do you call it when i send you money and you don't send everything i payed for. and what you did ship me is useless it's not 18 volts and cannot be made to got o 18 volts.

and here where you said you were done... so how was the correct items going to be shipped if you said you were over and done with......

"So DC Power had no intention in full filling my order they just sent me some shit in a box in hopes that would quiet me up. " This, is doing just that, ie, implying we had no intention of finishing this.. Let me tell you something, ask yourself why Dave and I spent at least a combined 40 hours of time on this (a couple grand, EASY), BOUGHT an engine ($600), spent at least $200 on prototype brackets, spent $400 on custom finishing, another $400 on a new bracket, power steering pump, and pulley, and lord only knows what else.. And we did this all because and again I quote "DC Power had no intention in full filling my order", Yup, sounds entirely plausible to me.. We did it just for the lulz...

I also said somewhere in this mess that I could make them 18v, but they had to come back for us to do it, and at that point in all honesty I'm tired of being bloodlet by this. It's just easiest/best to give you your money back as no matter what, your NEVER going to be happy with them even when we got everything done.. We've lost SO much money on this fiasco, it makes me sick...

You have the labels we overnighted to you, do us all a favor and send the stuff back so I can send you your money and we can all move on?? I mean seriously, do you honestly not think we would refund you after all of this??