Battery Question...

[Jd377 6]

Ok so here's the deal, I have my 18" SSD and I'm about to get a bigger amp for it (aq1200d or audiopipe or sax1200d) back to the point.. I want to make sure I have enough power to give it. I drive a 97 civic I think its like a 70amp alt. All stock electrical ( im also doing the big 3 to all 1/0 next week ) but I dont know enough and need help about batteries.

Basically if I add a Battery is that going to be enough power to run my subs or do second battery's not even help on a stock alt?

I see a bunch of people on here who always have batteries added and so I want to know if i can just add a battery to the back and be ok with my stock alt. I'm think along the lines of a kinetik 1400 or something ( there is one on my craigslist atm for under $150) I know tons of you have installed batts in your cars so I know you have hands on knowledge about how much they can do for your system.

PLEASE HELP ME!! I need to know as much as I can about how good a battery helps and if this will even power it. Thanks Jordan

[Shogen 325]

As far as I know the batteries will def help. Adding more batteries, having multiples will cause more strain on the electrical. I faced a similar dilemma and ended up with a HC1800 under the hood and nothing else besides eventually BIG 3.

I say go as big as will fit under the hood for now. And def when you go to the BTL get a HO alternator.

[Jd377 6]

the biggest that I can fit is the kinetik 1400 under my hood. Is it better to have just the 1400 kinetik under my hood by itself or to have my regular crap battery up front like normal with the 1400 in back by my amp wired together? I know obviously having both of them together is technically more power but Im not sure if that is bad for my car?

Also.. would the 1400 alone if i did go alone with it upfront be enough on my tiny stock alt to power 1000-1200 rms?..

( if it can't do you think they could power it together?.. that is if it isnt hurting my car as mentioned above) or there is a baby little kinetik 600 on craigslist here for like 65 bucks.. but i doubt it would do crap lol. but you guys tell me, you are the genius'

Edit: and yes I already plan on getting a new alt before the btl and huge amp next year**

Edited September 17, 2010 by Jd377

[Shogen 325]

I'd def get rid of the stock battery for a Kinetik any day. Now going with a 1400 and 600 isn't bad id say go for 2 of the same battery. So 2x HC1400 would be best.

Apparently it is better for the car to have to charge one size. The electrical isn't smart enough to know which battery to charge fully or which is the "main" battery. There are ways to ensure both batteries get full charges but I think it requires some extra hardware and willingness to up keep the system.

I could be somewhat wrong here but let's see if anyone else jumps in.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Shogen

[Julian 641]

Forget Kinetik, order some Xs Batteries, the biggest that will fit up front.

[Shogen 325]

XS power are fine as well. There are many brands but I cannot speak to what I've not used. I know they are high on the charts though. Just wish they didn't have soooooo many models with similar specs. Makes it harder to really just choose, at least for me.

@ Julian.... can you recommend a comparable XS POWER battery to the HC1400?

Edited September 17, 2010 by Shogen

[Jd377 6]

forget brands for a moment.. First off I just need opinion's about what to do and what will work. I mean its fine to offer your opinion on the best brand of battery but first I need to know what it is im going to be doing, as in just one up front or 2 and I have no idea which xs battery would fit upfront in a 97 civic hatch. I was leaning towards the kinetiks as they are for sale locally and cheaper since its on craigslist but if it is a major diff. I can go with xs. I was just going to save 50-100 bucks for i figure not enough diff. to matter.

Edit basically what shogen said, if you recommend that brand I wanna know what battery is an equivalent to the 1400hc since that is what I was looking at.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Jd377

[Julian 641]

Measure your current battery Length, Width, and Height. are they top mount posts or side post mounts?

and we can see how large of a battery we can fit up front

Xs >>>> Kinetiks, you get more for your money going with Xs

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Why is that? Personal experience or what?

[Jd377 6]

I've never heard anything bad about a kinetik battery yet from anyone that I know that has used them for their systems but yeah I'll measure and post the size later today.

** Also, When/IF I add a battery in back, do I have to have a Battery Isolater?.. I'm not sure if I wanna mess with all of that. Do you guys all put in battery iso's or do you just wire em up without an isolater? Is it ok for me to do it without one, will there be any problems if I dont use an isolater for my second battery?

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

I personally would NOT by a battery used.

Its not recommeded to run seperate technology batterys together without an 'isolator'. eg. your current batt is lead and the kinetik is an AGM gel.

A second battery is a great way to add extra amperage, but a HO alternator is a better solution. The alternator produces the amperage and a battery only stores it.

[audiolife 14]

Your amp can potentially pull more than your alternator can put out no matter what battery you get you must be able to maintain a reasonable charge to it/them otherwise they will end up getting trashed in a much shorter time. I would add the 1400 to the back and get a ctek 7002 to make sure your batteries stay charged up correctly. Regular water battery needs to be kept up at 12.5v at least and an AGM should be kept up above 12.7v. A higher output alt would be a very good idea regardless but even then I would still get a charger.

[Shogen 325]

Thank you guys for jumping in here... I know I am not an expert on this subject but I gave the info that I was somewhat sure on... As far as brand concerns I don't know different than Kinetik and its limited since I only just purchased one within about a month or 2 ago...

All I see is XS power here but that doesn't mean it is necessarily better, but it could be right about it offering more for the money? I cannot judge that seeing as how I got my HC1800 for close to $150 below their suggested retail and basically cheaper than what A M A Z O N sells it for. My reasoning for buying it from the vendor I did was the possibility of returning the item if it did not work for me.

One thing I can say is Kinetik offered to send me new battery posts because the items I received had definitely been beaten during shipping and the box had a hole and the hardware that came with it wasn't inside it. So I know they are decent on the cs side of things...

[Julian 641]

Why is that? Personal experience or what?

More for your money, the float voltage of a Xs is around 13.4v on the other hand a Kinetik is around 12.4.

When buying a battery from say amazon you have to factor in the shipping costs.. You may see the 150 price tag then they don't tell you the shipping is 100 dollars +.

[Shogen 325]

I guess that might matter if you actually pay for shipping. I get all items from A M A Z O N free shipping no matter what it is. Also the vendor I ended up actually purchasing it from offered free ground shipping on my battery. So most places offer it FREE in hopes of you actually buying it, usually it is slower shipping but free..

Anyway, I've never heard that about the floating voltage of Kinetiks.. Where is your source? Like was this tested and posted somewhere? Or you got this from a personal experience? I am still within my return policy if that is the case? Also where could I see that about he XS power batteries? Thanks.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Shogen

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Kinetik HC2400 (128ah) - $278.10 Shipped from Amazon

XS D2700 (100ah) - $299.99 plus $74.87 for shipping SSA Store

Kenetik's rest at 12.7/.8 so if yours was 12.4 it was bad.

I just researched all this a few months ago shopping for new batteries and found the Kenetik to be the best bang for the buck. That's why I am asking if you or anyone else had personal experience with a direct comparison between the two or if that is just forum talk. I know it's hard to tell, but I am not trying to start shit, just curious.

[Jd377 6]

Also it might be good to let you guys know I NEVER run my system with the engine off EVER. So I know that will help make sure that I never run the batts too low. Also they farthest I ever drive is about 20 mins tops.. and that is realistic because i dont think i have ever drove farther then 20 mins in my own car unless once to a theme park 30 mins away.. So my system will never be running for a long period of time. I am hoping that since my average drives are 5-15mins that with the voltage the 2 batts store would be able to stay good enough for that short of a thumpin drive.. Idk lemme know i just thought they probably wont drain that quickly to a danger level or anything. my regular batter is like 520/435amps under the hood ( standard crappy honda battery from local auto store) so adding a kinetik 1400 I would think would add quite a bit of juice to my current power.

[audiolife 14]

Why is that? Personal experience or what?

More for your money, the float voltage of a Xs is around 13.4v on the other hand a Kinetik is around 12.4.

When buying a battery from say amazon you have to factor in the shipping costs.. You may see the 150 price tag then they don't tell you the shipping is 100 dollars +.

Do you mean OCV? A kinetik will rest at 12.8 to 13.1 volts when fully charged and taken off the charger/ alternator for a few hours and if you leave it sag at 12.4 volts you are running a battery that is not at 100% charge or close to it and you are more than likely playing with a sulfated battery (would take months to drop to 12.4 volts). I have quite a few batteries from several brands sitting in my garage that I charge weekly and none are resting above 12.95 volts.

[Julian 641]

Kinetik HC2400 (128ah) - $278.10 Shipped from Amazon

XS D2700 (100ah) - $299.99 plus $74.87 for shipping SSA Store

Kenetik's rest at 12.7/.8 so if yours was 12.4 it was bad.

I just researched all this a few months ago shopping for new batteries and found the Kenetik to be the best bang for the buck. That's why I am asking if you or anyone else had personal experience with a direct comparison between the two or if that is just forum talk. I know it's hard to tell, but I am not trying to start shit, just curious.

You're looking at this all wrong, AH really.. in all honesty doesn't mean a whole lot.(AMP-HOUR RATING is a unit of measurement for battery capacity, obtained by multiplying a current flow in amperes by the time in hours of discharge. (Example: A battery which delivers 5 amperes for 20 hours delivers 5 amperes times 20 hours, or 100 ampere-hours.) So, unless you are running a system that has a low amperage pull for hours this rating is useless. *****edit***** I probably shouldn't have said useless, but it is by far not the determining factor on battery power.) You're not going to be DISCHARGING your battery over 24 hours at xx amps that is how AH is figured. Lets use 1,000 watts as a level for how much battery power we need, XS suggests the D925 ($139.99) while replacing your front starting battery. On the other-hand Kinetik suggests the HC1400. If you keep your starting battery you'll be able to go up to a maximum of 2,000 watts rms with the XS if you were to do that with the Kinetik you would have to upgrade to a whole new battery.

Big thing, are these REAL kinetik batteries? You may get no warranty, you may get fake batteries when buying from Amazon because Amazon doesn't do all the selling, they're a lot like Ebay.

IIRC Kinetik batteries do not do well on anytrhing higher than 14.4v they start to go downhill really quick or explode.

[audiolife 14]

Also it might be good to let you guys know I NEVER run my system with the engine off EVER. So I know that will help make sure that I never run the batts too low. Also they farthest I ever drive is about 20 mins tops.. and that is realistic because i dont think i have ever drove farther then 20 mins in my own car unless once to a theme park 30 mins away.. So my system will never be running for a long period of time. I am hoping that since my average drives are 5-15mins that with the voltage the 2 batts store would be able to stay good enough for that short of a thumpin drive.. Idk lemme know i just thought they probably wont drain that quickly to a danger level or anything. my regular batter is like 520/435amps under the hood ( standard crappy honda battery from local auto store) so adding a kinetik 1400 I would think would add quite a bit of juice to my current power.

AGM batteries are still lead acid batteries that can and will sulfate if not kept properly charged. If you are short on alternator power more capacity battery wise can help the thing is you must not let a battery be kept at a low state of charge. Regular batteries, AGM, GEL and maintanance free batteries can and do sulfate. In fact a battery that is old and worn out dies because it sulfates. The more deeply you discharge a battery the more it can/will sulfate. Leave a battery sit around without a charge on it, it will self discharge and sulfate. If a battery even discharges it sulfates, on the otherhand charging desulfates it. If it is heavily sulfated you may need a special charger that pules the sulfer off the plates or you can go old school on a battery and spend 2 or 4 days cycling batteries back to health as long as it isn't crystalized. If the sulfur crystalizes it has pretty much screwed the pooch.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

[quote name='Julian' date='17 September 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1284751175' post='700785'

Big thing, are these REAL kinetik batteries? You may get no warranty, you may get fake batteries when buying from Amazon because Amazon doesn't do all the selling, they're a lot like Ebay.

IIRC Kinetik batteries do not do well on anytrhing higher than 14.4v they start to go downhill really quick or explode.

I am 100% sure they are real and have warranty. The batteries I purchased ARE sold from Amazon direct, not a seller on Amazon. In fact they had the lowest price.

I have had a couple on 14.7/14.8 set by the XS VCM for a little while now and no swelling. Couple more been sitting in the box and they are still resting 12.8.

That pic looks bad. Real bad. Sticker is different too, is that a fake one?

I would have bought XS because the reviews are great and it would help SSA, but for the price and quantity I was buying I went with Kinetik and free shipping from Amazon. I was just curious to hear head to head reviews, really.

[Shogen 325]

Amazon has different retailers but you can buy thing DIRECT from Amazon and that battery looks like a complete fake.... The sticker even the logo look different.... lolz

Anyway, I'm with Lancelot... Would def have bought the XS Power to support the community and SSA... But price wise the Kinetik was better for me and I called Kinetik and the confirm that I have full warranty with them from this vendor I got it from. BTW I bought it off of onlinecarstereo.com. They sell some items that aren't covered by manufacturers warranty but I emailed and called Kinetik before pulling the trigger.

[audiolife 14]

Kinetik HC2400 (128ah) - $278.10 Shipped from Amazon

XS D2700 (100ah) - $299.99 plus $74.87 for shipping SSA Store

Kenetik's rest at 12.7/.8 so if yours was 12.4 it was bad.

I just researched all this a few months ago shopping for new batteries and found the Kenetik to be the best bang for the buck. That's why I am asking if you or anyone else had personal experience with a direct comparison between the two or if that is just forum talk. I know it's hard to tell, but I am not trying to start shit, just curious.

You're looking at this all wrong, AH really.. in all honesty doesn't mean a whole lot. You're not going to be DISCHARGING your battery over 24 hours at xx amps that is how AH is figured. Lets use 1,000 watts as a level for how much battery power we need, XS suggests the D925 ($139.99) while replacing your front starting battery. On the other-hand Kinetik suggests the HC1400. If you keep your starting battery you'll be able to go up to a maximum of 2,000 watts rms with the XS if you were to do that with the Kinetik you would have to upgrade to a whole new battery.

Big thing, are these REAL kinetik batteries? You may get no warranty, you may get fake batteries when buying from Amazon because Amazon doesn't do all the selling, they're a lot like Ebay.

IIRC Kinetik batteries do not do well on anytrhing higher than 14.4v they start to go downhill really quick or explode.

Ahh so if an alternator can't keep up with an audio system a small battery can and not need recharged? What is the state of charge on a small battery after 30 minutes of a constant on off drain of lets say 30-80 amps? Can that battery recharge itself faster than it is being drained? What is going to reach a state of charge of 30% faster a small battery or a big battery? If your electrical can't keep up will the smaller more drained battery be susceptible to sulfation?

Do you know how well the battery was cared for or wired in the set up? judging from the stickers on it can very well be 8 years old now and more than likely over 4-5 years years old when the picture was even taken. If you allow a battery to sulfate it will not charge correctly from a charger that does not sense sulfation (charger or alternator). Could a bottle neck in the connections generate heat or un equal discharge and charge?

Does XS cover a swollen battery? Is it considered abused or over charged? In the warranty does it state about not allowing the cells to be charged past 2.4 volts per cell?

Does it state anywhere that the battery should be charged up at a minimum of 12.6 volts or 2.1 volts per cell? Why must it be kept higher than 12.6? Could it become stratified or sulfated ?

[Duran 387]

Someone is riding Kinetik pretty hard up there.

[Jd377 6]

If i run a second battery in back, can I run the negative terminal of the back battery just to the car's body?.... or do I have to run a negative cable from the front battery back like the power?.. I'm guess since the negative is grounded to the car I can just drill and bolt it to the car ... like in my trunk area