midbass advice

[the fat kid 0]

im currently running one set of alpine type r 6.5 components on a diamond d1 250.2 with a high pass filter on. now for a 300+ dollar set of speakers when i bought them i dont think they have any midbass at all, a few shops ive been to said that they are playing jsut fine but i guess that means i need to upgrade. im planning on scrapping my 4 diamond 10s in a sealed box and going with 2 fi bl 12s ported and tuned to 32hz, but i fear that ill have a big gap where my mids dont perform. what do yall suggest in the 300-400 price range

i was looking at these ZRS-710KIT - ZRS SERIES - Cadence Acoustics, LTD because i heard a set of coaxial 6.5s in the same truck i have and they already had more midbass than my alpines, i figure a 7x10 CANT be worse. i have a 6x9 opening and it wont be all that bad to make these fit, however i dont know why theres two tweets in this setup and not a 4" driver, idk, im no expert.

i would be running the same amp on them 250.2 with a high pass filter

i appreciate any suggestions, thanks in advance.

[altoncustomtech 773]

I would imagine, before you go and possibly make a costly mistake, it would be best to cover some bases. First of all, most people really enjoy the sound of their Type R components from what I've read they have sufficient midbass. Are you certain the high pass crossover is set correctly? If that crossover is set too high it will easily cause the midbass to go bye bye. Try turning off the high pass filter and see if it helps. Also you could have one of your midbass's wired out of phase. I'd check some things out first before plunking down money on another set of speakers.

[the fat kid 0]

thanks for your quick reply,

yeah ive messed with my high pass filter a shit ton, i guess i should have been a bit more specific here, on a rap or techno song, they sound ok. however on rock music or something similar it gets real muddy sounding, i cant really explain it any better than that, ive tried to run them with the high pass off and jsut on the full range setting but they seem to sound worse. i will probably re wire them again before i buy, but im certain they are in phase correctly. they guy at my shop reccomended me to run another 250 watt amp to have a total of two, one to each side, but that doesnt sound right to me, what would happen if i were to bridge the speakers on my current 250.2, or if thats not an option and they really do respond better to more power, should i run a 4ch amp and bridge the front and back channles and run them to their respective sides of the truck?

thanks again.

edit: how much does the gauge of the wire from amp to crossovers and crossovers to speakers effect midbass performance, i did notice he used a wire that i would have considered a bit small but again im no expert.

Edited August 29, 2010 by the fat kid

[jcarter1885 995]

On my mids and highs amps I use 4 gauge wire, some use 8 gauge depending on size of amp and power/ground terminals. I wouldnt say the wire size will have an impact of midbass unless your using something like 12 gauge or something for your power and ground wires. How are they installed in the doors, any dampening or something of that nature?

[Julian 641]

First and for most, are they in an IB Alignment or are they sealed? Door pods or factory location? Are your doors deadened sufficiently?

[the fat kid 0]

On my mids and highs amps I use 4 gauge wire, some use 8 gauge depending on size of amp and power/ground terminals. I wouldnt say the wire size will have an impact of midbass unless your using something like 12 gauge or something for your power and ground wires. How are they installed in the doors, any dampening or something of that nature?

i was referring to the speaker wiring from the amp to my crossovers, i have 8 gauge wires to the amp.

and to julian, idk what ib alignment is, they are in factory locations, not sealed and i do have dynamat xtreme around the speakers its cut into a square but its probably a good 3-4 inches to all sides of the 6.5

[Julian 641]

On my mids and highs amps I use 4 gauge wire, some use 8 gauge depending on size of amp and power/ground terminals. I wouldnt say the wire size will have an impact of midbass unless your using something like 12 gauge or something for your power and ground wires. How are they installed in the doors, any dampening or something of that nature?

i was referring to the speaker wiring from the amp to my crossovers, i have 8 gauge wires to the amp.

and to julian, idk what ib alignment is, they are in factory locations, not sealed and i do have dynamat xtreme around the speakers its cut into a square but its probably a good 3-4 inches to all sides of the 6.5

Infinite baffle. First off I would make door pods and seal your speakers before you make a costly upgrade for nothing. I would use SecondSkin Damplifier for the doors, deaden everything in the door.

[BanginGMC 23]

First and for most, are they in an IB Alignment or are they sealed? Door pods or factory location? Are your doors deadened sufficiently?

This.

My Type R's shake my rear view mirror..

Note: i have 2 sets

[gmjoe2490 0]

I would spend the money on finishing your doors. Do inside and out. Finish it off with a layer of ensolite on the outside of the door. I think that will really improve your response.

[Julian 641]

First and for most, are they in an IB Alignment or are they sealed? Door pods or factory location? Are your doors deadened sufficiently?

This.

My Type R's shake my rear view mirror..

Note: i have 2 sets

Thanks

Damplifier and some fiberglass with resin is cheaper than a new set of component speakers.

[Duran 387]

Speakers mounted in IB are not going to have ANY midbass when they are 6.5" cones, they aren't for midbass in the first place. Seal them and they will have a much more pronounced midbass.

[BanginGMC 23]

Speakers mounted in IB are not going to have ANY midbass when they are 6.5" cones, they aren't for midbass in the first place. Seal them and they will have a much more pronounced midbass.

I wouldn't say "any" midbass.. mine are IB and i have a good amount of mid bass. My rear view and side view mirrors both shake.

OP: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~100789~PN~1

Give that a read, it was a quick google find.

[Duran 387]

You also have twice the cone area a normal vehicle would.

[the fat kid 0]

Youre saying seal them like those cheap lil things i see on ebay, the speaker cups or whatever

SPP-514-DSF - A.I. Bass Boomer 5.25" / 6.5" Speaker Baffles

those?

damplifier is the same thing as my dynamat isint it? just curious, it seems to be.

and youre saying to dynamat the whole door? would that include the backside of my door skin.

BanginGMC, im reading that link now, thanks.

Edited August 29, 2010 by the fat kid

[Impious 1,476]

Yes, deaden the whole door. You want to seal any holes in the metal door panel so that the "backwave" from the speaker is completely separated from the "frontwave" of the speakers.

No, we weren't talking about those cheap foam baffles.

Also, have you tried reversing the polarity on one of the mids? Just because the positive wire is connected to the positive terminal, it does not mean the sound reaching your ears is in phase.

[the fat kid 0]

Yes, deaden the whole door. You want to seal any holes in the metal door panel so that the "backwave" from the speaker is completely separated from the "frontwave" of the speakers.

No, we weren't talking about those cheap foam baffles.

Also, have you tried reversing the polarity on one of the mids? Just because the positive wire is connected to the positive terminal, it does not mean the sound reaching your ears is in phase.

didnt think yall were talking about the lil cups, those seem like a waste for sure.

and i dont have the whole door done, i will do that first, thats cheaper than doing the new components, actually i could go as far as dynamating th whole door and buying a second set of type r components for cheaper.

and no i havent tried reversing the poliarity, what youre saying is that the plus and minus on the amps and speakers are irrelevant, it only comes down to what you hear./

i think i got it.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Speakers mounted in IB are not going to have ANY midbass when they are 6.5" cones, they aren't for midbass in the first place. Seal them and they will have a much more pronounced midbass.

Most car audio manufacturers design their drivers with this type of installation in mind. Many consider the 2 or 3 cubic feet of a door cavity to an "infinite baffle" alignment for them. THE OPs problem is cancellation between front and rear waves due to the open cavities of the door. Sealing the cavities will help to separate the front from the rear and will increase response, but it may not be ideal. As for the cone size, just like subwoofers, we are talking about myths here. I have used many a "small" driver for midbass and had excellent results, some with a cone size as small as 2". WHile it takes more effort, it's not an impossibility.

[the fat kid 0]

question here, now lets say since im building a new box with an mdf and glassed center console that will come all the way to my dash, would it screw my staging up if i mounted another pair of type r components in the console?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Common sense would say yes, but you never know until you try.

[the fat kid 0]

indeed, thanks yall for the help.

[Julian 641]

Dynamat is crap. Secondskin is much better, same prices, no asphalt, real stuff there

[the fat kid 0]

indeed. how do i go about figuring how much id need.