I will pay anyone $600 per 18" to build me or find me 55mm+ o

[kryptonitewhite 1]

I have been in contact with many, many companies over the last few weeks. Companies that sell drivers, customize them, sell just parts, repair shops, you name it. No one has surrounds capable of more than 55mm one way. I keep getting told excess of 30mm Xmax is easy, 10" and 11" spiders not a problem. But surrounds. Surrounds is the issue.

So then I emailed many, many, many companies looking for just surrounds. Stone walled.

I am willing to pay $600 per 18"... either 4 for my van, or 6, 2 more for my home theater. $3600 for 6 18's.

I'll start vague, Xmax as of right now is no longer a requirement, but this has to be reasonable. I can't have 50mm of excursion that is unusable cuz there's not enough motor force to push it, or it sounds like ass at 1/2 it's capability. But for now, Ill let Xmax and Bl slide.

Reasonable Sd. I don't want a 10" cone with a 4" wide surround so that this thing can move 55mm one way.

We will start there and see if/where this goes.

kryptonitewhite at hotmail

thanks

[sandt38 448]

http://www.acousticdev.com/cms/

Contact Dan Wiggins there. He designed the Parthenon motor capable of 80 MM of Xmax.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

http://www.acousticdev.com/cms/

Contact Dan Wiggins there. He designed the Parthenon motor capable of 80 MM of Xmax.

Thanks Sandt38. I havent talked to Dan in a few months, he was going to let me buy a batch of the XBL tweets but i think his side kick Mark put his foot down. I talked to Scott a few days ago about a custom 30" and 20" driver using the Parthenon. Right off the bat though, going from 4 18's and a 20" port to a 20" driver with 4 16" ports kills Sd efficiency and port material area for frictional losses. If I could start a new van build, he might consider a 30" driver using the Parthenon

[bassahaulic 155]

Why is such high excursion needed?

[onebadmonte 235]

I can't imagine the surround is an issue on this one. Just use half an inner-tube.

[ssh 924]

I can't imagine the surround is an issue on this one. Just use half an inner-tube.

x2 on inner tube part haha.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

Dan says NOPE, OEM only

innertube..lol..that was brought up long ago with the Parthenon!

[kryptonitewhite 1]

looks like Atmos Audio might be the guys who are gonna do this!

[kryptonitewhite 1]

alright, what I have:

VAN: 50 cubic feet, 20" diameter port, 18.5" long, 22Hz tune, assuming amps do 1000 watts before clipping then 4000 watts, assuming they do 1500 watts before clipping 6000 watts high pass 20Hz low pass 31.5hz 30dB/oct... with WinISD I am setting to link-riley 4th order

HT: 128 cubic feet (per sub) 12 diameter port (per sub) 5" long for a 13Hz tune ( I said 13.5-15Hz tune in video) 2 EP4000's, rated 2500 rms @ 4 ohms, I am running 8 ohms, even at 8 ohms IF they got full current delivery, rated 1750 rms. I am gonna guess Im maybe getting 1000 watts each peak.

IB3's have a 30mm Xmax, 42mm Xmech. I can bottom my subs out in all applications, so 42mm

RED LINE is van, 50cu ft 22Hz tune, HP L-R 4th order 20Hz, LP L-R 4th order 31.5Hz. WinISD puts the drivers at 42mm at tuning with 999,999 watts. 1 millioin watts. I'm not giving each of them a million watts when I bottom them out.

YELLO LINE is HT, 128 cubic feet each, 13Hz tune each, no HP filter, LP 250Hz per Denon subwoofer setting. WinISD takes 2000 watts to get to 41mm at tuning. My EP4000s are NOT each putting out 2000 watts when I bottom them out! After I get the recones, I will make a vid of me bottoming them out at tuning for ya all.

video home theater full excursion at tuning for a couple minutes, drivers not even warm, maybe 600 watts each

[NDMstang65 403]

Of course you are going to get to full excursion on tuning..with a IB woofer..in a 128 cubic feet ported box.

We've told you countless times...we're not going to spend 100 thousand dollars on tooling stuff to sell you something for 3600 bucks. The XXX is a boat anchor...and I don't think you understand that it is a boat anchor...nobody else can do anything like that because they simply do not understand HOW to do it...much less have the resources and the machinery to do so.

Isn't happening. It isn't that we can't do it..we can do anything. It's simply not wise to put that kind of money into something..for a crowd of..1.

[007 0]

you'll spend 2-3 grand tooling that surround + design fees of $100+ per hour. It will be only detrimental to your woofer because of the weight (moving mass). That last few mm of xmax you get out of it only matters for the max excursion point at max system power - which probably only 1 frequency too. This is very irrelevant and you'll comprise the other 99% of the performance. Let the engineers design what they feel is best and just trust them on that. There are plenty of good high excursion woofers out there. If you need more displacement the best way to get it is add more drivers!

Here is one thing to consider: you're model does not account for room gain. In a typical living room you'll get 10-15dB gain at 10Hz and below simply because of the long wavelengths, so you can get away with surprising good SPL from sealed systems that don't have high pass filters without crazy xmax figures. In a car you get the same gain, but it starts at an even higher frequency because the "room" is smaller

Edited July 31, 2010 by 007

[95Honda 486]

I would take anything Dan Wiggins tells you he do for you with a grain of salt.... There is a reason Adire isn't around anymore, and that pretty much is it...

I think it would be much easier and pratical (and perform better) to change your goals to allow more cone area with your designs instead of increased xmax.... Or lower your overall output goal...

Another thing about prototypes and one-offs (like the Parth)... If they do work as promised, over time, you always run the risk of screwing them up and then you just have a multi thousand dollar door stop.

The Parthenon has never been used in an actuall alignemnt other than having a large dipole diaphram attached to it (someone please correct me with a picture if I am wrong here) and the pole piece/suspention was never really endurance tested. When you saw it operate, it had full contact moving parts, the kind that wear out really quick.... Awesome motor though... That bastard was over $1K in raw materials though, iirc....

[bassahaulic 155]

All these custom woofers and stuff isn't needed in the least to get the number you get at frequencies you play.

With 4 15"s on 3k we did 150's at 26-33Hz from the bed of a Dodge Ram.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

this guy says he brings his badass level 5's to "their maximum excursion"

hmm, guess he broke his too

YouTube - dc level 5 problems

is my home theater is a bust too, cuz despite being able to make the back door on the opposite side of my house suck open enough to see sunlight through it with a 15Hz sine wave:

I can still bring both of my subs to full excursion for a full minute at tuning without even getting the subs or amps warm. make the sheetmetal on my stove 2 rooms away ripple on the other side of the house, at 15Hz

and I can play the bass will destroy you, main note 18Hz, sweeps down to 13Hz, and I maintain full excursion the whole way

im not going for SPL just cuz I have a wall and got metered. If i was, I would have done 4th order clam shell. obviousely on a budget, or I wouldnt be running audippipe, IB3s, and only 1 HO alt, cheap wire, and only 2 batts

[95Honda 486]

you lost me with "cuz"..................

[///M5 2,833]

you lost me with "cuz"..................

He lost me at his last attempts to do things with drivers.

If your only goal is excursion then fine, waste the money and continue on. If this is a subset of your real goal then you should state it and actually get help you can use. Of course I know how you'll react to this but really for once potentially you should listen and absorb instead of thinking you know something that others don't.

[Dictator1992 6]

I say 2more 18's in the house kryptonitewhite and you will be happy.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

as you see in this video, my enclosure works as predicted with WinISD. The low 21Hz note and the next lowest note (which i do not know what it is) have the least excursion but the most port output. A consequence of tuning this low is higher excursion in the 30's. This is the trade off. As you see, this is where my excursion is highest..again, as predicted by WinISD, and this is what I sacrifice to get the FR curve that I want and am so pleased with. Yet the port offers little help in this high excursion range.

Im sure though, of course, that most of you are very familiar with the "impedance saddle" and the excursion and output that comes with it

as well, Im sure a bunch of you know a buncha guys that hit the two lowest notes in that track better than I do without unloading and aid of SSF or volume knob ;)

[keetykush 34]

In the long run, I see this thread going no where near productive.

[BanginGMC 23]

I'm going to see the movie salt

Just thought i'd add some more confusion to the thread

Nice wall though!

[NDMstang65 403]

as you see in this video, my enclosure works as predicted with WinISD. The low 21Hz note and the next lowest note (which i do not know what it is) have the least excursion but the most port output. A consequence of tuning this low is higher excursion in the 30's. This is the trade off. As you see, this is where my excursion is highest..again, as predicted by WinISD, and this is what I sacrifice to get the FR curve that I want and am so pleased with. Yet the port offers little help in this high excursion range.

Im sure though, of course, that most of you are very familiar with the "impedance saddle" and the excursion and output that comes with it

as well, Im sure a bunch of you know a buncha guys that hit the two lowest notes in that track better than I do without unloading and aid of SSF or volume knob ;)

Um...

I hate to tell you this. But you obviously unloaded them sometime..some how..some way...because you uh..locked the coils outside of the top plate...that means the former came out 10mm PAST the top of the top plate...because the pole piece is hyper extended outside of the top of the top plate...so you were WAY past linear limits...

Speakers do NOT do that..unless you unload them in either a ported box that is way too big (yes) with woofers that aren't made for a ported box (again, problem number 2)