peerless 6.5" sls midbass

[cobra93 47]

Now, the Hybrid Audio Technologies Legatia line offers a 2 or 3 way set that is completely active, so you could get a spankin' midbass, nice midrange and nice tweet without paying for the crossover. While I have not heard the 4" midrange what I have heard about it is positive.

There are so many other options out there as well.

After hearing the L4 and a couple other mids in the same install, I can't rate it high in price/performance

One option which seems hot now is to use a 3-4 inch fullrange and a midbass and simplify crossover needs, location and tuning.

Thanks for your experience. I'm still debating on active/passive for the moment, but i definitely see active in the future

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

The passive definetly takes alot of the tuning work out of it for you, I think they usaully have the circuitry to smooth out the FR also.

[cobra93 47]

Wow. Now I'm getting flooded with responses faster than I can think or type.

[cobra93 47]

I vote all in if you've got the cake, simply because you will be happier with the results and the equipment will retain value better.

I'm starting to rationalize that myself. I can talk myself into anything if given enough time. LOL.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Here's a good read on passive crossovers if anyone has some time to kill.

http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

[cobra93 47]

Here's a good read on passive crossovers if anyone has some time to kill.

http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

Thanks, I'll read that tonight.

[cobra93 47]

I just had a thought regarding the ES-0642i GOLD component set.

If I bought raw drivers, they'd be 4 ohms.

If I bought the component set they'd be a higher ohm load (than 4) to make the system a 4 ohm system, correct.

[sandt38 448]

I just had a thought regarding the ES-0642i GOLD component set.

If I bought raw drivers, they'd be 4 ohms.

If I bought the component set they'd be a higher ohm load (than 4) to make the system a 4 ohm system, correct.

No, they are all 4 ohm drivers.

[6APPEAL 7]

That leads me back to the decision I have to make "cheap or all in", no one can make that decision for me, I realize that.

x2 on all in. Been there, done that, got boxes of old cheap cr#% that I've thrown out over the years. I tried the road of using cheap to test stuff and I'll say that a good 80% of it didn't work out. Either the cheap sounded decent enough to try expensive and didn't work out or cheap sounded like azz so the expensive was never tried. I can also say that going all in has burned my wallet also when it didn't work out. Granted, it's easier these days to sell off your unwanted equipment, cheap or expensive. Watching.

[Adrian_D 520]

After hearing the L4 and a couple other mids in the same install, I can't rate it high in price/performance

One option which seems hot now is to use a 3-4 inch fullrange and a midbass and simplify crossover needs, location and tuning.

That's disappointing. What was the other set in the same install? What was it you didn't like about the L4? I am curious as I have never actually heard it before, but I have heard very good things about it. I have heard the L6/L1 pro in a nice install, but never the L4. With that said, though, like I posted in another thread I seem to hear greatly exaggerated things about the Legatia set. A few people were talking about off axis dispersion clean to 4.5kHz, but no way... Beaming still occurs at ~2.5K no matter what you do with a 6.5" driver.

I've heard the Vifa TG9 and the Scan 15m. It was more than a year ago, one clear thing I remember I didn't like was some voices sounded raspy on the top Given it's price it wasn't much much more impressive than the TG9. One year is a lot to remember the exact sound so don't flame me

[sandt38 448]

After hearing the L4 and a couple other mids in the same install, I can't rate it high in price/performance

One option which seems hot now is to use a 3-4 inch fullrange and a midbass and simplify crossover needs, location and tuning.

That's disappointing. What was the other set in the same install? What was it you didn't like about the L4? I am curious as I have never actually heard it before, but I have heard very good things about it. I have heard the L6/L1 pro in a nice install, but never the L4. With that said, though, like I posted in another thread I seem to hear greatly exaggerated things about the Legatia set. A few people were talking about off axis dispersion clean to 4.5kHz, but no way... Beaming still occurs at ~2.5K no matter what you do with a 6.5" driver.

I've heard the Vifa TG9 and the Scan 15m. It was more than a year ago, one clear thing I remember I didn't like was some voices sounded raspy on the top Given it's price it wasn't much much more impressive than the TG9. One year is a lot to remember the exact sound so don't flame me

No, that's cool. I like to get as many opinions about things as I can if I don't have first hand experience. I like to hear the bad, as often times you get fanbois stoking up products, and with my experiences with the HAT fanbois thus far, it is nice to have an unbiased viewpoint.

I liked the L6/L1pro. They were silky and guttural, which is definitely a nice trait for a midbass IMO. They could have been more snappy, but you can't have everything. But you make it sound as if the guttural trait carries over to their midrange driver, which IMO is not a good thing for midrange. I don't like closed off vocals. I would expect better then TG9 performance for what HAT gets for their gear.

I appreciate the honesty!

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Some drivers are over priced for only marginally better results if any. I don't recommend buying something just because its expensive, but because it fits your needs and has good build quaility.

[sandt38 448]

Well, eventually you are going to reach that point of diminishing returns. When you get up to the point where you are spending $1000 for a front component set, the differences between that set and a $1400 set won't be very apparent to the average listener. Unlike the difference between a $150 component set and a $500 component set where the difference will be huge. Eventually you will reach a point where you realize that suddenly you are no longer hearing a difference. But there will always be someone who will, and maybe that tiny difference means something to the guy that can hear it, and maybe it is worth it to him to spend that money. It's all subjective, really.

[cobra93 47]

Here's a good read on passive crossovers if anyone has some time to kill.

http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

I just read the link you posted, I'm still trying to get my head around allot of it, but a very good read. Thank you.

[cobra93 47]

I just had a thought regarding the ES-0642i GOLD component set.

If I bought raw drivers, they'd be 4 ohms.

If I bought the component set they'd be a higher ohm load (than 4) to make the system a 4 ohm system, correct.

No, they are all 4 ohm drivers.

I'll have to read up on how that works.

I've over simplified the passive crossover in my head, as still being just a series/parallel circuit.

However, being 4 ohm drivers would mean I could go passive first, then remove the crossover and go active if I felt the need.

If I don't keep everything in one location, tweeter/4"on the dash, woofer in the door, I suppose I could try the passive on the tweeter/4" and use an active crossover on the doors.

This would allow me to have the use of time alignment on each group of speakers, provided this doesn't cause a new set of issues to deal with, but I guess I'd still be stuck by the midrange's pass band.

If nothing else, I'm receiving enough help form everybody that I should be able to make an informed decision when the time comes.

[cobra93 47]

Wow, it's been a long time. My work schedule since my last post sucks to say the least. I've been working (6) tens, then laid off, then nights then laid off and so on.

Yesterday I finally had the time to listen to the 2 sets of mid bass speakers, or at least what I have to try as mid bass speakers.

To sum up: I have a sundown 125.2 to power the 2 or 4 speakers.

I built a .15 c.f. birch plywood sealed enclosure to test the 2 pairs I have now.

I'm crossing them in the 75-250 hertz range, that could change.

The 2 pairs of speakers I have are:

peerless sds # 835004

and

peerless sls

I'm going to put the fr88's back on the dash today and give the both 6-1/2" speakers a chance to see what they can do.

Yesterday I turned the H.P. filter on my jl xr-570 component coax to ~250 hertz

In the sealed box the sls's sounded quite good, however they seem a little slow, but have a more full sound to them.

The sds's ($10.00) sounded a bit quicker to me with close to the same output, I'd say the sds's edged out the sls's.

I realize the sds's are 4 ohms (89.5 1W/1M) and the sls's are 8 ohms (87.2 @ ?). I don't know if the sens. and ohm load is enough to account for the difference in output, but I prefer the sound of the sds's.

I guess that puts me in the distorted mid bass category, I'm not sure.

I hope this gives some insight to what I want in a mid bass and can help you recommend some speakers for me.

I don't know when I'll be back to work, so I'd like to stay under $100.00 per driver if possible.

Btw - When I was building the sub enclosure/amprack I noticed the pass. side tweeter was blown. I replaced it with a jl tr silk dome from an old set of 5-1/4" coax.

I played around with the phase, when I flipped the phase (rev.) to the drivers side tweeter the whole stage opened up to my left and the center image was damn near in front of me.

They sound pretty good, but they're in the doors right now. The doors are the only place I have to place some mid bass (6-1/2") they have to go.

Edited October 13, 2010 by cobra93

[cobra93 47]

EDIT to the above post : The peerless sls's are 4 ohm drivers

peerless sls #830946

I went out and listened to the 2 pairs of speakers, so much to process.

I raised the crossover on the fr88's to 250-300 hertz.

The fr88's are so different sounding then the jl xr-570's that I must change my position of my last post.

I believe the sls's have more output and have more still to give then the sds's.

The sds's sound a bit hollow, but not to shabby for a $10.00 speaker.

I'm not able to "easily" adjust the crossover on the fr88's due to the location of the amp.

The 88's don't seem to sound "right" by comparison to the 570's. Too mono sounding. I assume the fact that the drivers side a pillar is too close without some level and delay is the main cause of this.

It could also be the separation of the drivers as well.

I'll have to dig up my other jl 300/2 so I can put it on the pass. seat and be able to adjust them both on the fly.

I don't know if the 88's/sls's need a higher or lower crossover to sound more "cohesive". At this point the 88's are great on some material and too in your face on others, also hollow sounding.

One thing is for sure I definitely will need 2 sls's per door, in a sealed .3 c.f. enclosure to possibly reach the mid bass I would like to achieve.

Edited October 13, 2010 by cobra93

[lithium 358]

EDIT to the above post : The peerless sls's are 4 ohm drivers

peerless sls #830946

I went out and listened to the 2 pairs of speakers, so much to process.

I raised the crossover on the fr88's to 250-300 hertz.

The fr88's are so different sounding then the jl xr-570's that I must change my position of my last post.

I believe the sls's have more output and have more still to give then the sds's.

The sds's sound a bit hollow, but not to shabby for a $10.00 speaker.

I'm not able to "easily" adjust the crossover on the fr88's due to the location of the amp.

The 88's don't seem to sound "right" by comparison to the 570's. Too mono sounding. I assume the fact that the drivers side a pillar is too close without some level and delay is the main cause of this.

It could also be the separation of the drivers as well.

I'll have to dig up my other jl 300/2 so I can put it on the pass. seat and be able to adjust them both on the fly.

I don't know if the 88's/sls's need a higher or lower crossover to sound more "cohesive". At this point the 88's are great on some material and too in your face on others, also hollow sounding.

One thing is for sure I definitely will need 2 sls's per door, in a sealed .3 c.f. enclosure to possibly reach the mid bass I would like to achieve.

having the same issue with my fullrangers up on the dash (im running a peerless 3"). some stuff they sound good and then too in your face.

i dont remember, maybe i missed it, but can you fit larger drivers in your door. if your willing to go with 2 6.5s per side i assume your willing to do some modification. how about an sls 8 or 10? (could save you some cash)

[cobra93 47]

EDIT to the above post : The peerless sls's are 4 ohm drivers

peerless sls #830946

I went out and listened to the 2 pairs of speakers, so much to process.

I raised the crossover on the fr88's to 250-300 hertz.

The fr88's are so different sounding then the jl xr-570's that I must change my position of my last post.

I believe the sls's have more output and have more still to give then the sds's.

The sds's sound a bit hollow, but not to shabby for a $10.00 speaker.

I'm not able to "easily" adjust the crossover on the fr88's due to the location of the amp.

The 88's don't seem to sound "right" by comparison to the 570's. Too mono sounding. I assume the fact that the drivers side a pillar is too close without some level and delay is the main cause of this.

It could also be the separation of the drivers as well.

I'll have to dig up my other jl 300/2 so I can put it on the pass. seat and be able to adjust them both on the fly.

I don't know if the 88's/sls's need a higher or lower crossover to sound more "cohesive". At this point the 88's are great on some material and too in your face on others, also hollow sounding.

One thing is for sure I definitely will need 2 sls's per door, in a sealed .3 c.f. enclosure to possibly reach the mid bass I would like to achieve.

having the same issue with my fullrangers up on the dash (im running a peerless 3"). some stuff they sound good and then too in your face.

i dont remember, maybe i missed it, but can you fit larger drivers in your door. if your willing to go with 2 6.5s per side i assume your willing to do some modification. how about an sls 8 or 10? (could save you some cash)

I don't think I can get an 8" in the door. The window track closest to the hinges gives me ~ 7" to play with.

Earlier in in this post I mentioned the exodus anarchy's, they look to good to be true.

sandt38 recommended I also look into css sdx7, among other drivers.

The anarchy's and the sdx7 both have craploads of excursion to possibly make up for there small size.

When I e-mailed exodus I was told to put them in the smallest enclosure they'd fit in for a 75 hertz high pass.

I've been thinking of trying them with a large format tweeter in a 2 way instead of the full range on the dash.

After playing around with the phase, and replacing a tweeter on the xr-570's in the door now, I'm amazed at how wide and high the stage is with no processing at all.

At $85.00 a piece I may give them a shot. The downside is they're 8 ohm drivers and have a low sensitivity rating.

I don't really know what to do at this point, kind of in limbo at the moment.

I may keep looking until next spring and hit it then.

I'm waiting for a good deal/price drop on pioneer dex-p99rs, it would certainly simplify tuning crossover points, phase and level adjustments.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Good luck on that Pioneer.

I would love to have one myself, but out of my price point for a HU at the moment.

What a nice HU it would be though.

Not really many options for a 4 way active HU. Clarion for $1000 used and the Pioneer. Seems people dont really care about SQ anymore, just want navigation and a blue tick.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

what frequencys are in your face with the 3"ers? With my 3s, I have to eq out a peak around 2k, otherwise they are brutal.

As you seen with the SLS's xmax is king when it comes to midbass output. As very little excursion is needed to play higher frequencys.

Can you cross the SLS's any lower than 75hz? I really think you could get so much more out of them crossed lower.

The Anarchys are a solid bet. Don't be intimidated by the low sensitivy rating.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Here's a good read on passive crossovers if anyone has some time to kill.

http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

I just read the link you posted, I'm still trying to get my head around allot of it, but a very good read. Thank you.

Great link, there is a ton of information on that index page. Thanks man!!!!

[///M5 2,833]

Somehow this is the first I've seen this thread...and only read this page, but will follow now.

I think you guys are all battling something that no one has yet referenced. It is all installation. That being said, I'd like to understand how you aimed your 3's, what processing you are using to correct for the anomalies of the install, and more specifically at what frequencies they sound weird. If you haven't yet, playing some warble tones in different frequency bins will help you isolate those frequencies.

As with any speaker system having a single driver play as much of the frequency spectra as possible is a benefit, but that benefit can quickly degrade if you do not have them installed (read mounting, aiming, processing, deadening...) in the right way. From what I see/hear comment wise above I am sure this is the case.

As for the TG9, Scan comments that Adrian made above. I'd also put those comments in the same category. The 15m can be well worth the difference; however, the TG9 is a lot more forgiving and easier to play with so regularly it may be a better choice.

And yes, those SLS should have more on the bottom end, but they roll off so fast you will NOT be able to use them with a large format tweeter. Perhaps a big 2" tweet/mid, but not just a tweeter.

[cobra93 47]

Good luck on that Pioneer.

I would love to have one myself, but out of my price point for a HU at the moment.

What a nice HU it would be though.

Not really many options for a 4 way active HU. Clarion for $1000 used and the Pioneer. Seems people dont really care about SQ anymore, just want navigation and a blue tick.

I use mapquest, .

I'm tired of flash and gadgets in place of quality and function.

How's the enclosure coming?

[cobra93 47]

what frequencys are in your face with the 3"ers? With my 3s, I have to eq out a peak around 2k, otherwise they are brutal.

As you seen with the SLS's xmax is king when it comes to midbass output. As very little excursion is needed to play higher frequencys.

Can you cross the SLS's any lower than 75hz? I really think you could get so much more out of them crossed lower.

The Anarchys are a solid bet. Don't be intimidated by the low sensitivy rating.

Yes, the sls's are subs.

In the .15 c.f. sealed boxes I had them in they can still get low, I'd guess that 45-50 hertz isn't a problem, even lower. I believe some of the tracks I was listening to reach down to 30-35 hertz and they still sound great.

I'm fighting with the idea of playing them really low, because I love up front bass, but I'd miss getting kicked by my subs (I'm going back to my eclipse 88120 ti dvc's btw).

If I have the sls's playing to there limits and turn the subs up I'm afraid I won't hear them destroying themselves.

The fr88's> 3 months ago I felt the need to pull some 1,500 - 2,500 out to make them sound great, this last time I didn't.

I haven't spent near enough time with them, that's for sure

Steely Dan sounds fantastic, Billy Joel sound a little hollow, Killswitch engage even sounds good, but Avril Lavigne will will rip your ears out through you eye sockets.

How are you doors coming along, any progress?