Greatest Passenger Car Engine of last 25 Years

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

****cough**** MB 3.2 DOHC I-6 and V6 ****cough****

great list so far, unless we have any other entries, we can get the vote started, I left the 4 cyclinder vote open still because there are people still voting even though we do not have a winner yet with 10 votes

[Supa_c 1]

How did I know Aaron was going to say something about MB engines....

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

How did I know Aaron was going to say something about MB engines....

I have had hands on experience with a few of them, and they all have been awesome, not the most powerful, but still should be considered

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

any other additions to the 6 cyclinder vote?

if not, would a mod mind starting and pinning the topic?

[IamDeMan 0]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There my vote.

New all aluminum desing chevy medium block. It has already proven very versatile and able to make tons of power. It has good gas milage considering it's size and amount of cylinders. Yet it still stays as simplistic as the original small block chevy. No fancy DOHC, just an easy minimalist design.

Ellis Juan can nevAR lose!

Edited May 17, 2006 by IamDeMan

[///M5 2,833]

as simplistic as the original small block chevy. No fancy DOHC, just an easy minimalist design.

Sorry but I read your definition of simplistic as antiquated. Fancy OHC isn't so fancy since it has been around for more than 40 years. Pushrods are not a good idea, more moving parts, less capable at higher rpms, and just an older less efficient design.

[IamDeMan 0]

as simplistic as the original small block chevy. No fancy DOHC, just an easy minimalist design.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry but I read your definition of simplistic as antiquated. Fancy OHC isn't so fancy since it has been around for more than 40 years. Pushrods are not a good idea, more moving parts, less capable at higher rpms, and just an older less efficient design.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The LSX motors are hardly inneficient. Higher RPM isn't always good. I would rather make my torque down low. Of course not all cars or styles of racing benefit from a torquey low end. But for my day to day necessities having it in the low end is better.

Fancy doesn't equal new btw. I also mentioned DOHC not just OHC. DOHC has more moving parts than pushrods and more weight in most case when similiar dsplacements are compared.

[mrray13 30]

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/am/welcome/WRM/WRM-2006-05.asp?

for denim...

and those who like to read...lol..

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

thanks kent

[mrray13 30]

your welcome..

now that you don't have to download it, i'll post it everymonth..

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[///M5 2,833]

as simplistic as the original small block chevy. No fancy DOHC, just an easy minimalist design.

Sorry but I read your definition of simplistic as antiquated. Fancy OHC isn't so fancy since it has been around for more than 40 years. Pushrods are not a good idea, more moving parts, less capable at higher rpms, and just an older less efficient design.

The LSX motors are hardly inneficient. Higher RPM isn't always good. I would rather make my torque down low. Of course not all cars or styles of racing benefit from a torquey low end. But for my day to day necessities having it in the low end is better.

Fancy doesn't equal new btw. I also mentioned DOHC not just OHC. DOHC has more moving parts than pushrods and more weight in most case when similiar dsplacements are compared.

The key is effeciency, both in power curve and emissions. OHC (or D) are more efficient than any pushrod engine ever could be. The "new" motors have direct actuation on their valves and no cam at all, which is the automotive manufacturers only cost feasible way of creating an engine that is more effecient than the overhead cam design. The only real benefit to an auto maker of pushrods is a cheaper engine to produce, nothing else but for some companies that is more than enough reason to bring something into the marketplace.

[IamDeMan 0]

as simplistic as the original small block chevy. No fancy DOHC, just an easy minimalist design.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry but I read your definition of simplistic as antiquated. Fancy OHC isn't so fancy since it has been around for more than 40 years. Pushrods are not a good idea, more moving parts, less capable at higher rpms, and just an older less efficient design.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The LSX motors are hardly inneficient. Higher RPM isn't always good. I would rather make my torque down low. Of course not all cars or styles of racing benefit from a torquey low end. But for my day to day necessities having it in the low end is better.

Fancy doesn't equal new btw. I also mentioned DOHC not just OHC. DOHC has more moving parts than pushrods and more weight in most case when similiar dsplacements are compared.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The key is effeciency, both in power curve and emissions. OHC (or D) are more efficient than any pushrod engine ever could be. The "new" motors have direct actuation on their valves and no cam at all, which is the automotive manufacturers only cost feasible way of creating an engine that is more effecient than the overhead cam design. The only real benefit to an auto maker of pushrods is a cheaper engine to produce, nothing else but for some companies that is more than enough reason to bring something into the marketplace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you don't think the LSx series deserves any props? whatever. I also enjoy the cheapness of it. The aftermarket parts for it also remain cheap and very plentiful. Not everyone can afford an M5. That much technology isn't always necessary. Of course BMWs and Porsches, ferraris, etc. are fascinating vehicles, but for people who can't afford such extravagance, the Corvette, GTO, and F-bods are a great performance deal for them.

When deciding what the Greatest Passenger Car Motor of last 25 Years is, you have to factor in a cost as part of the equation to. What good is a motor/platform for a passenger car if only a select few will be able to purchase it?

[///M5 2,833]

There are plenty of cheap ohc engines that aren't German. Heck even Ford had a SOHC V8 in 1966, which again is more than 40 years ago--and outlawed because it made too much power. The peakiness of the torque curve on a pushrod engine may be fine for trucks, but if it is a car and you want to drive it quick having the broadband effeciency that a modern ohc setup can supply is by far superior. Oh, any M5's don't have to be extravagantly expensive, mine sure wasn't.

[IamDeMan 0]

There are plenty of cheap ohc engines that aren't German.

Edited May 22, 2006 by IamDeMan

[///M5 2,833]

Dude your idea of expensive is way off, you spent more on your car than I did....

[///M5 2,833]

And I agree that we aren't going to come to any real agreement here, and nor am I taking any offense at our discussions and hopefully you aren't either. My point is that pushrods are antiquated. The cannot hold up to the velocities that new engines require for expanded power curve and effeciencies. Currently pushrod engines valves are capable of reaching 7-8m/s at way most for their peak velocities, overhead cam engines are exceeding 35m/s. This extra velocity allows higher pressurization on the incoming gas, better atomization, better control of the firing, and it goes on. This is key to having effeciency and torque throughout the RPM range instead of really peaky like most pushrod engines. Your engine may "feel" modern now, but my issue is with the flaw of spending money to design something that is already obsolete, it doesn't make any sense.

It is true we like a different kind of racing, I don't drag nor do I enjoy driving a drag car around day to day. It seems to half-azzed to me, if I wanna drag a car it won't be street legal. Put me on a track and its a different story, and true this is where having the cams above the heads will make the most difference because the torque curve is flatter and more usable at MANY different RPM's instead of just a few.

[IamDeMan 0]

Dude your idea of expensive is way off, you spent more on your car than I did....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm speaking in terms of new.

Even if used is in play, I'm sure your M5 was more expensive than one can find an LS1 equipped F-body in similiar condition for.

I am in no way offended by any of it. I just understand we have different ideas of what we want.

[///M5 2,833]

/\ that wouldn't quite be apples to apples either since the other appointments in my car are significantly better, but the price wouldn't be that far off either.

[IamDeMan 0]

/\ that wouldn't quite be apples to apples either since the other appointments in my car are significantly better, but the price wouldn't be that far off either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See this is where we differ. I am only interested in straight line performance. I would never use a car like yours to the extent it was built for

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I think I am more in tune with Sean's ideal car.

[///M5 2,833]

Straight line performance only to me is not a daily driver.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Straight line performance only to me is not a daily driver.

unless there are no turns on the way to work

[mrray13 30]

i guess i'm with daman....

i like a low rpm, pull the stump straighta outa your ass torque motor....

but than again, i know of several 377ci sbc that spool over 7k all day long and love it...some i seen spool at 13k (those were race only, alcohol feed monsters, doing 4's in the 1/8th)...so pushrods can indeed be made to rev insanely high, they jsut usually don't need too.....

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[///M5 2,833]

I do test work on valves for F1 engines, they spin at 20k and are moving towards 24k as early as maybe next year. Measuring valve float on something moving like that isn't easy.

[mrray13 30]

I do test work on valves for F1 engines, they spin at 20k and are moving towards 24k as early as maybe next year.  Measuring valve float on something moving like that isn't easy.

i guess not..lol..

1.2.3.4.5.6. aww fuck it.....

it's going fast...

hehe

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee