read these comments lol

[splguy1989 4]

this guy is talkin bout his power acoustic amp lol, and said my rms is only 500 with my sae 1200d v2, we should tell this noob off lol

and i know there cvrs but the point is im not braggin

[shizzzon 461]

I don't debate with stupid

I wont put myself on their level.

[splguy1989 4]

I don't debate with stupid

I wont put myself on their level.

i know lol, thought it was funny when he said he been goin to comps for years with l7s or cvxs lol

[shizzzon 461]

i witnessed a guy post a 157 with 2 15" L7s in a hatch off an Audiocontrol meter. Not as strict as the termlab but still at the headrest.

People gotta understand that sanctions such as DbDrag, IASCA, USACI, etc... they all meter in a "loaded area". Windshield, kick, etc...

MECA runs at the headrest... what's the difference u might ask?

Loaded areas tend to peak MANY MANY times higher AND on a higher note.

It's easier to get loud on a higher note as you climb in frequency.

It's near stupid to compare metered scores if you don't know what sanction or how it was done.

Headrest metering is known as Reality SPL.

If you daily drive with the setup you meter, your head isn't in the windshield or down in the kick... it's at the headrest.

So the next time u see someone post a 155 at the windshield or the kick... he isn't doin no where near that at the headrest.

[splguy1989 4]

and that was a very short vid that i just played the first song with, i can play the pack im shinnin and every1 says they cant breath and the road gets very blurry when you try to drive

ill have to show that guy a real vid when i gat a mem card for my camera, cause ive noticed rear door flex thats more than the window flex in that vid

its all in THE setup, that guy just dont understand

Edited May 22, 2010 by splguy1989

[Randal Johnson 544]

short vid you got there ...

[splguy1989 4]

short vid you got there ...

i know lol, i just bought the cam and aint got mem card yet, thats as long as it took without card, wasnt even THE best song, but im sure i can get much more flexing when i get it thogh lol

[mr.sagat 10]

Just reading that was terrible. He's lame for talking trash and hating for no reason and you're wrong for calling power acoustik trash.

Power Acoustik has a few amps that walk all over your amp for the price in terms of power. Sub wise, the older PA Mofo 15, cost about the same as your CVR 15 and would eat it for lunch in a high power spl setup. I'm not trying to ride PA's nuts, but most brands at one time or another have made some"good" products. I'm not hating your setup, I would be proud to run your subs and amp, But if PA is "trash" and they make stuff that walks all over your setup in terms of spl, what's that really say about what you're running?

[Duran 387]

Power Acoustik... Meh.

[splguy1989 4]

Just reading that was terrible. He's lame for talking trash and hating for no reason and you're wrong for calling power acoustik trash.

Power Acoustik has a few amps that walk all over your amp for the price in terms of power. Sub wise, the older PA Mofo 15, cost about the same as your CVR 15 and would eat it for lunch in a high power spl setup. I'm not trying to ride PA's nuts, but most brands at one time or another have made some"good" products. I'm not hating your setup, I would be proud to run your subs and amp, But if PA is "trash" and they make stuff that walks all over your setup in terms of spl, what's that really say about what you're running?

how bout u get your mofos, and well meet side by side and see whos will eat whos in spl, and yea my buddy had a lame ass power acoustic bamf 5500, and it burnt up in like 4 months, i WAS going to get that amp till it fried so i had to get a GOOD NAME brand amp like sundown

[splguy1989 4]

"Power Acoustik has a few amps that walk all over your amp for the price in terms of power"

and that remark, the biggest power acoustic amp i have seen was all the 5500s, that SAYS 3200 rms @ 1ohm, well i saw a bench test a while back someone did and it was 17.somethin, and i have saw the sae 1200d benched from sundown theirselves @ 2022 rms @ 14v, and yes ill post both of those when i find em

BTW im not gonna argue about power acoustik vs sundown, or power acoustik vs kicker, i know and sure other ppl here knows whats better

http://www.db-r.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1219867818

Edited May 22, 2010 by splguy1989

[mr.sagat 10]

Dude, pretty sure I'd eat you alive if I ran two older mofos. Forget that 5500d mess. I'd use The A3000DB. It's has been shown to put out over 2200 watts @ 1 ohm. The amp is also .25 ohm stable for burps. I'd be able to burp it @ .25 ohm with a pair of Dual 1 mofos, too bad you can't get such a low impedence The amp would probably put out close to 3000 watts @ .25 ohm. Shizzon used to run them, I'm sure he'd know what they can put out. A pair of mofos can hit a 150, I can't really say I've seen a pair of comp vr's, do that. Right now I am setting up my wall with 2 lanzar 15's.

I would bet you systems any day that my "cheap" lanzars and that turd of a power acoustik amp is louder on a meter than your setup.

Here's some underlying reasons why me with crappy power acoustik stuff would probably be louder than you.

1. I have a wall, you don't.

2. I have a meter to tweak with, I doubt you do.

3.An a3000db is already stronger than the sundown, but the a3000db would be @ .25 ohm and the sundown would be @ 1 ohm or .5 ohm (can your amp do a .5 ohm burp?)

4. The "motor assembly" of an older mofo is much, much, "stronger" than the Comp VR, so they would more than likely be louder once powered sufficiently.

5. The mofo has a 4 inch voicecoil, pretty sure the comp vr has a 2 1/2. I could almost guarantee you that if the mofos windings are of a thicker gauge wire, which I'm pretty sure they are, they will handle a ton more power than the kickers.

Power acoustik is not that great, they made a few decent products, but in the whole scheme of car audio your setup isn't that great either.

[dvalue 17]

You do realize you are comparing apples to oranges here?

[splguy1989 4]

Dude, pretty sure I'd eat you alive if I ran two older mofos. Forget that 5500d mess. I'd use The A3000DB. It's has been shown to put out over 2200 watts @ 1 ohm. The amp is also .25 ohm stable for burps. I'd be able to burp it @ .25 ohm with a pair of Dual 1 mofos, too bad you can't get such a low impedence The amp would probably put out close to 3000 watts @ .25 ohm. Shizzon used to run them, I'm sure he'd know what they can put out. A pair of mofos can hit a 150, I can't really say I've seen a pair of comp vr's, do that. Right now I am setting up my wall with 2 lanzar 15's.

I would bet you systems any day that my "cheap" lanzars and that turd of a power acoustik amp is louder on a meter than your setup.

Here's some underlying reasons why me with crappy power acoustik stuff would probably be louder than you.

1. I have a wall, you don't.

2. I have a meter to tweak with, I doubt you do.

3.An a3000db is already stronger than the sundown, but the a3000db would be @ .25 ohm and the sundown would be @ 1 ohm or .5 ohm (can your amp do a .5 ohm burp?)

4. The "motor assembly" of an older mofo is much, much, "stronger" than the Comp VR, so they would more than likely be louder once powered sufficiently.

5. The mofo has a 4 inch voicecoil, pretty sure the comp vr has a 2 1/2. I could almost guarantee you that if the mofos windings are of a thicker gauge wire, which I'm pretty sure they are, they will handle a ton more power than the kickers.

Power acoustik is not that great, they made a few decent products, but in the whole scheme of car audio your setup isn't that great either.

lol im not even gonna argue about that, last thing though, i BET that sundown will last 10x longer than the power acoustic, and comparing cvr's to mofos, in spl terms lets some mofos stand up to same amount of l7's and that will be fair, but i can GUARANTEE you the mofos wont keep up with the l7's.

but as for me that being a temp setup lol, ill be getting 4 sundown sa 12's and another sae 1200d yes some QUALITY stuff

[Impious 1,476]

and that remark, the biggest power acoustic amp i have seen was all the 5500s, that SAYS 3200 rms @ 1ohm, well i saw a bench test a while back someone did and it was 17.somethin, and i have saw the sae 1200d benched from sundown theirselves @ 2022 rms @ 14v, and yes ill post both of those when i find em

Don't base anything about an amplifier's capabilities on the "tests" you see on the forum. They are irrelevant and essentially useless.

Oh, and LOL at trying to have an argument in youtube's comments.

[Dictator1992 6]

Its all on how you treat your equipment will determine how long it last...my bamf amp isnt the most powerful amp or the best but it stays pretty efficient for what you pay for. Only had it hot once and that was on full tilt on the deck(Max lvl of volume before clipping) for a good 45mins+ of blasting music. I was pretty impressed about it.

REMEBER most of PA amps are budget amps not freaking competition crazy amps. They do what their intented to do produce some bass not that insane bass but just enough to make a good amount of noise for a very cheap price with good effieciency )) which matters alot in a daily driver setup!!!! thats my 2cents.

About their drivers i wouldnt prefer any of their sub's not the best quality. Only good sub they ever made was the old mofo. New mofo failz hard!

Spl/Pa are like the same company but i think pa is the upper brand quality company they have. Lol i said pa was upper brand quality lmfao upper brand.

[splguy1989 4]

and that remark, the biggest power acoustic amp i have seen was all the 5500s, that SAYS 3200 rms @ 1ohm, well i saw a bench test a while back someone did and it was 17.somethin, and i have saw the sae 1200d benched from sundown theirselves @ 2022 rms @ 14v, and yes ill post both of those when i find em

Don't base anything about an amplifier's capabilities on the "tests" you see on the forum. They are irrelevant and essentially useless.

Oh, and LOL at trying to have an argument in youtube's comments.

well id personally never own PA, saw tp many of their dead amps

[emh9009 199]

i cant read that.... they dont use any real words.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

1000 PA watts will sound the same as 1000 Sundown watts.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

i cant read that.... they dont use any real words.

LOL.

I hear ya man. Too hard type that extra letter these days.

[mr.sagat 10]

Sundown is a better brand than power acoustik, no argument there. I would expect the sundown to last longer than the pa, but 10 times, get real I've owned 5 A3000DB's and never had one go out on me, so they are kind of reliable.

I was comparing mofos/ a3000db to compvrs/sundown because they are in the same price range and the subs have the same cone area. Mofos against l7's is not fair, since the l7's are in a different price range and have more cone area. The CVX is basically a round L7, so that is a more fair comparison and it "might" be able to get louder than a mofo, but I really doubt it. I have owned and ran S15l7's and I respect what they can do, but the voice coil in them is really pretty weak for the monster rep you give them.

I've ran a bunch of quality stuff over the years, everything from an old RE SX 18, to L7's and Cerwin Vega Strokers, to the SSA Xcon 18" I have now. They are all good drivers in their own right. But their are also subs that have a terrible rep but are actually good, anything Lanzar Optidrive, old PA Mofo's, and Audiopipe APXX's to name a few.

Also, some products (JLW7) have an Ungodly rep that they don't deserve.

You want more SPL? Spend half the money and be louder than the W7

You want more SQ? Save money and run almost any sub with XBLx2 Technology, like the Ascendant Audio Avalanche or the Adire Audio Tumult.

Want more ""SQL""? Buy a 2004-2006 RE XXX, It'd make a W7 look retarded.

Even in my town, 99% of people have a hard time believing that the SSA XCON I own is a superior driver in almost every way to the W7. It's more sensitive, handles more power, has more xmax and imo has better SQ. Oh yeah, it's half the price too.

[emh9009 199]

i cant read that.... they dont use any real words.

LOL.

I hear ya man. Too hard type that extra letter these days.

HA, i think its too hard NOT to write the "extra" letters. If i don't i have to think about what im trying to say, so i just stick with the originals. On top of that its all just obnoxious.

Same thing goes for when people are talking and they abbreviate every other word. I don't get it.

[splguy1989 4]

Sundown is a better brand than power acoustik, no argument there. I would expect the sundown to last longer than the pa, but 10 times, get real I've owned 5 A3000DB's and never had one go out on me, so they are kind of reliable.

I was comparing mofos/ a3000db to compvrs/sundown because they are in the same price range and the subs have the same cone area. Mofos against l7's is not fair, since the l7's are in a different price range and have more cone area. The CVX is basically a round L7, so that is a more fair comparison and it "might" be able to get louder than a mofo, but I really doubt it. I have owned and ran S15l7's and I respect what they can do, but the voice coil in them is really pretty weak for the monster rep you give them.

I've ran a bunch of quality stuff over the years, everything from an old RE SX 18, to L7's and Cerwin Vega Strokers, to the SSA Xcon 18" I have now. They are all good drivers in their own right. But their are also subs that have a terrible rep but are actually good, anything Lanzar Optidrive, old PA Mofo's, and Audiopipe APXX's to name a few.

Also, some products (JLW7) have an Ungodly rep that they don't deserve.

You want more SPL? Spend half the money and be louder than the W7

You want more SQ? Save money and run almost any sub with XBLx2 Technology, like the Ascendant Audio Avalanche or the Adire Audio Tumult.

Want more """SQL"""? Buy a 2004-2006 RE XXX, It'd make a W7 look retarded.

Even in my town, 99% of people have a hard time believing that the SSA XCON I own is a superior driver in almost every way to the W7. It's more sensitive, handles more power, has more xmax and imo has better SQ. Oh yeah, it's half the price too.

the point is that i wasnt even braggin on my cvr bein that loud, even though it will cut the air outta ya, the cvr's is something i got for 245 shipped a new pair on ebay, so i thought to myself i can do some testing out, for the money they are damn sure not bad, they are actually louder than my l7 12's i had.

also depending on box, power, vehicle theres all different things you need to do to be a "good install" an examle for that, my buddie ted has 2 l7 15's in a 2003 tahoe, ported at 40hz with 2 memphis pr1s and his is not loud as mine for sure, but i know its because he has a bigger inside area than my small jimmy, also the sound shop that built his box, made it with only 60in of port with 9 net cubes lol, 3 x 20 port, its still pretty loud not as loud as my setup

my box is 8cu after with 114 in port area,

i know what your saying about some cheaper subs can get as loud as the more exspensive though, my cvrs are just temp lol

[Impious 1,476]

Also, some products (JLW7) have an Ungodly rep that they don't deserve.

That they don't deserve? The W7 is worthy of every educated compliment thrown it's way. It set the standard for low distortion high output drivers.

You want more SPL? Spend half the money and be louder than the W7

The W7 never claimed to be a SPL sub. That was never it's intended application. To use that against the W7 is a little like complaining that you can't take a Corvette rock climbing. It was intended to be a high output low distortion subwoofer for use in accurate music reproduction. Not a single tone fart cannon.

Though IIRC Nate Munson said he put a W7 in car and only lost around 1db compared to the DD 9510 he had in there at the time.

You want more SQ? Save money and run almost any sub with XBLx2 Technology, like the Ascendant Audio Avalanche or the Adire Audio Tumult.

Arguable. What measurements do you have to support that the Avalanche and Tumult are far and away superior performers to the W7 in distortion and other "sound quality" parameters?

Want more "SQL"? Buy a 2004-2006 RE XXX, It'd make a W7 look retarded.

Make it look retarded? No. Not happening. Sorry.

99% of people have a hard time believing that the SSA XCON I own is a superior driver in almost every way to the W7.

How is it superior in every way?

I hope your list gets better than this;

It's more sensitive,

Irrelevant....and actually higher sensitivity can be detrimental for a subwoofer. Sensitivity isn't a "higher is better" spec....and if you think it is, you have some learning to do.

handles more power,

Irrelevant again. Having a higher rated power handling again isn't a "higher is better" spec.......and if you think it is, you have some more learning to do. The W7 has sufficient power handling for it's intended application, that is all that matters.

If you want to go rock climbing, don't buy a Corvette.

has more xmax

A little more relevant.

But IIRC the Xcon is rated at 31mm Xmax, correct? 13W7 is rated @ 32mm Xmax and was Dumax'd at 33-34mm.. They are close enough that I wouldn't say excursion is in either driver's favor.

and imo has better SQ.

Subjective, which makes it only relevant to you and no one else. Another person may think the W7 sounds better than your Xcon.

Oh yeah, it's half the price too.

Indeed it is. You finally got one right! Congrats!

[mr.sagat 10]

With the w7 comparison I was thinking it'd only be fair for a 12w7 to be compared to the 12 xcon.

Anyway, The 12w7 has 28mm xmax and the xcon has 31.

How is higher power handling not a better spec? In a daily driver music setup I understand power handling capability is not everything, but If I had the choice I would prefer for a sub that has the potential to handle more power. Who knows, I might want to use it for other applications one day. A sub with more power handling capability would have versatility then. So higher power handling potential would always be a plus, unless it potentially sacrificed other aspects of the woofers performance.

Sensitivity, lets say there are two subs that have the exact same parameters. Except one of them has higher sensitivity than the other. Which would you buy? Can you explain to me why you wouldn't buy the more efficient driver? Anyway, the sensitivity on the 12's I was bringing up are all almost the same, so I was wrong for bringing that up.

In the SQ department, I said the Xcon imo has better SQ. What I stated was a truthful OPINION. The key words were "in my opinion"

I have nothing against JL, I wouldn't run W7s unless they were given to me. It makes more sense to spend almost the same money and run two w6's instead.

Anyway, here's some parameters of the xcon, 12w7 and the 2005 XXX 12. You know more than I do about audio so maybe you can enlighten me to which sub is superior on paper and why.....

2005 XXX

Fs 27hz

Re 1.9 DVC

Qms 4.52

Qes 0.44

Qts 0.4

Sd cm2 480

Vas 56.5

Xmax 1 way 32mm

BL 17.1

SPL 1W/1m 85.9

RMS 1600 W

Max 2500 W

Xcon

2" SSA XCON D2

Re 3.7 Ohms (1.85 per coil wired in series)

Fs 32.4 Hz

Qms 5.24

Qes .39

Qts .37

Mms 222

Vas 35 l

Sd 480 cm^2

BL 20.65

SPL 86.7 1 W/1m

Xmax 31mm

RMS 1750

12w7

Free Air Resonance (Fs): 27.2 Hz

Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.514

Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 7.807

Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.482

Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 2.33 cu. ft. / 66.0 liters

One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 1.15 in. / 29 mm

Reference Efficiency (no): 0.249%

Efficiency (1W/1m)**: 86.2 dB SPL

Effective Piston Area (Sd): 84 sq. in. / 0.0542 sq. m.

DC Resistance (Re): 2.47 ohm

Nominal Impedance (Znom): 3 ohm

Thermal Power Handling (Pt): 1000W

Driver Displacement: 0.14 cu. ft. / 4.0 liters

Net Weight: 45 lbs. / 20.4 kg

I guess the W7 is an Ungodly driver, I was wrong they can take a light socket like a champ.

You are completely right that it set the standard. The fact it is almost a 10 year old design and you can make a valid argument about it's superiority versus today's drivers is a testament in itself.

Edited May 22, 2010 by mr.sagat