Help choosing sub(s)/amp for new build

[joemacgames 0]

Hi,

I currently have 1 kenwood KFC W3012 with an alpine m500 amp running at 4 Ohms with 300 watts in a custom ported enclosure (my dad and I built it and it's not that good). I bought it about 6 months ago and am not happy with my purchase. It gets moderately loud in the mid-range bass, but when the songs get lower, it gets super quiet and just sounds bad. It gets the job done, but thats about it, so it's time for an upgrade.

I have a crown victoria with the police package so it has a HO alt already, and it has plenty of trunk space for a large enclosure. My goal is to have the loudest system around 5-700 (not including enclosure). I listen to rap/ hip hop

I've been doing some research and I'm looking at maybe 1 12" Fi BTL with either an AQ 1200D, SAE 1200D amp or MB Quart DSC1500.1, or 2 AQ SDC 15's with one of those amps. I know the BTL is the higher end, SPL oriented speaker from Fi and the SDC's are AQ's lower end, daily driver speaker. How does the BTl compare to AQ's HDC3 line of subs?

My main question is, would I be better off buying 1 higher quality sub, or 2 lower quality ones? For example, 1 BTl or 2 BL's. Since I have such a large car, would I be better off with 2 subs?

These are just two options that I've come up with, so I'm open to any suggestions.

Like I said, I'm aiming for volume, not SQ, and if possible, I'd like to get some windshield or roof flex (idk if thats possible with my budget and the size of my car though)

Thanks,

Joe

I found this amp too: Power Acoustik BAMF5500/1D its only $329. is Power Acoustik any good?

Edited April 19, 2010 by jgarrison

[smashedz28 110]

I cant speak for AQ subs, but the BTL is a monster.. really think about if you want that much bass. I wanted a system that SLAMS so i got the 18" BTL.. before it broke in i thought it was a bad choice because of how obnoxious it sounds.. but now that its broken in and has smoothed out a little bit. Basically if you want the btl make sure you have the power for it and electrical. its a beast! Going from what you have to a BTL will be day and night difference for sure. choose wisely, do ALOT of research before you make up your mind.

[CrownVic 15]

I would go with a either 2 12's or a single 15" sub. I have a crown vic and i have enough room for my spare tire and a 5 gallon bucket of tools along with a 4 cube box for my sub. How many amps is the police alternator? I would stay clear of Power Acousik also if you need a cheap amp look into audiopipe there are much better amps out there though. Alpine, Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, Sundown, ect.

[emh9009 199]

X2 on the massive amount of research you should do!

two speakers will have more cone area, dissipate heat better. but they will take up more room, it sounds like you have enough of that to spare.

between fi and audioque i would go fi. if youre going two subs i would go bl, just to be easier on your electrical and such. of course one of either of fi's subs will be lotsa' bass (even the SSD if you haven't looked at that) there are plenty of quality brands out there, just do some more searching. (check out SSA ! )

i would buy quality>quantity, and i dont think i would buy any qudioque stuff. but thats just me for some unknown reason

maybe just a new box will fix your problem, but i've heard two 12" KFCs and wasnt impressed at all lol (in a pre-fab box though)

i hope you get at least something out of this post lol

[joemacgames 0]

I would go with a either 2 12's or a single 15" sub. I have a crown vic and i have enough room for my spare tire and a 5 gallon bucket of tools along with a 4 cube box for my sub. How many amps is the police alternator? I would stay clear of Power Acousik also if you need a cheap amp look into audiopipe there are much better amps out there though. Alpine, Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, Sundown, ect.

Ok, would 1 15" BTL be good? I think it's ~200amps. Do you know of any specific amps that would be good for the 1 15" btl?

[abmoore 8]

X2 on the massive amount of research you should do!

two speakers will have more cone area, dissipate heat better. but they will take up more room, it sounds like you have enough of that to spare.

between fi and audioque i would go fi. if youre going two subs i would go bl, just to be easier on your electrical and such. of course one of either of fi's subs will be lotsa' bass (even the SSD if you haven't looked at that) there are plenty of quality brands out there, just do some more searching. (check out SSA ! )

i would buy quality>quantity, and i dont think i would buy any qudioque stuff. but thats just me for some unknown reason

maybe just a new box will fix your problem, but i've heard two 12" KFCs and wasnt impressed at all lol (in a pre-fab box though)

i hope you get at least something out of this post lol

Why steer clear of AQ? They have many respected products for the price. Judging by your statement you were suggesting it is bad quality. I mean I have my unexplainable biases as well :: , but AQ should not be thrown out without a reason. Although, I agree with the Fi BL, great sub for the price and it gets loud with a properly built box (extremely important in your case, a 15 in the right ported box pounds!!!). I would at least try a lower model before stepping up to a BTL, it is a beast of a sub. There are plenty of other subs too, I wouldn't get stuck on one particular one like you seem to be with the BTL. Research into DC Sound Labs Level 4 and the XL, good subs for the money. There are also Ascendant Audio and SSA subs, and they really get loud without sacrificing SQ. I know you say you want loud, but it is good to have some experience before you go for the gold. With the right amp and enclosure these will get plenty LOUD, without sounding like poo. As for amps, the AQ 1200d, SAE-1200d v2, Elemental Designs NINe.1, Nakamichi 1200d (on sale at woofersetc), and many more, just check around the forum and see what people are using.

[joemacgames 0]

X2 on the massive amount of research you should do!

two speakers will have more cone area, dissipate heat better. but they will take up more room, it sounds like you have enough of that to spare.

between fi and audioque i would go fi. if youre going two subs i would go bl, just to be easier on your electrical and such. of course one of either of fi's subs will be lotsa' bass (even the SSD if you haven't looked at that) there are plenty of quality brands out there, just do some more searching. (check out SSA ! )

i would buy quality>quantity, and i dont think i would buy any qudioque stuff. but thats just me for some unknown reason

maybe just a new box will fix your problem, but i've heard two 12" KFCs and wasnt impressed at all lol (in a pre-fab box though)

i hope you get at least something out of this post lol

Why steer clear of AQ? They have many respected products for the price. Judging by your statement you were suggesting it is bad quality. I mean I have my unexplainable biases as well :: , but AQ should not be thrown out without a reason. Although, I agree with the Fi BL, great sub for the price and it gets loud with a properly built box (extremely important in your case, a 15 in the right ported box pounds!!!). I would at least try a lower model before stepping up to a BTL, it is a beast of a sub. There are plenty of other subs too, I wouldn't get stuck on one particular one like you seem to be with the BTL. Research into DC Sound Labs Level 4 and the XL, good subs for the money. There are also Ascendant Audio and SSA subs, and they really get loud without sacrificing SQ. I know you say you want loud, but it is good to have some experience before you go for the gold. With the right amp and enclosure these will get plenty LOUD, without sounding like poo. As for amps, the AQ 1200d, SAE-1200d v2, Elemental Designs NINe.1, Nakamichi 1200d (on sale at woofersetc), and many more, just check around the forum and see what people are using.

I took a look at the DC level 4s and XLs, but they're a little out of my budget :/ I understand what you're saying though about starting a little lower than a BTL (or equivalent) and then working up, but I have a feeling that if I got a BL or something I would want to move up to the BTL after a little while and It would end up being more expensive in the long run. If I decide to go with a "monster" sub and it turns out to be too much, could I mess with the EQ in my headunit or run less power to it to make it more manageable? How large of an amp can I use before I need to get another battery? If I would have to do that for a ~2000 watt sub, then I'll probably go with a BL or something.

What subs from SSD and Ascendant Audio would you recommend? Also, how much should I be looking at spending to have an enclosure built?

[Don Ganso 13]

What subs from SSD and Ascendant Audio would you recommend? Also, how much should I be looking at spending to have an enclosure built?

By "SSD" do you mean the Fi SSD or SSA as in Sound Solutions Audio?

If the Fi SSD, it's not really what you want if your goal is volume. Not saying that they couldn't get loud, but the BTL or BL is more what you'd want.

If SSA, then I'd say XCON, but since you really don't care about SQ then I'd look somewhere else. Not saying the XCONs can't shake the crud

out of your car, but I think you'd be happier with a BTL than an XCON. Ascendant look at them Mayhem or Havoc.

[joemacgames 0]

What subs from SSD and Ascendant Audio would you recommend? Also, how much should I be looking at spending to have an enclosure built?

By "SSD" do you mean the Fi SSD or SSA as in Sound Solutions Audio?

If the Fi SSD, it's not really what you want if your goal is volume. Not saying that they couldn't get loud, but the BTL or BL is more what you'd want.

If SSA, then I'd say XCON, but since you really don't care about SQ then I'd look somewhere else. Not saying the XCONs can't shake the crud

out of your car, but I think you'd be happier with a BTL than an XCON. Ascendant look at them Mayhem or Havoc.

yeah, I meant the SSA. I'll look into those. thanks

[joemacgames 0]

How do you think the AQ HDC3-Aluminum would compare to a BTL? (the reason I'm interested in Fi so much is it's a good, loud sub for a reasonable price. I wish I could go with a DC level 4 or xl, but it's just out of my budget :/)

My other question is what electrical upgrades would I need to do? I haven't done the big 3 yet (I'll probably use the leftover from wiring my amp etc.) and I just checked my alternator for my model car online and it's only 130amps. I guess that rules out the BTL?

[Don Ganso 13]

How do you think the AQ HDC3-Aluminum would compare to a BTL? (the reason I'm interested in Fi so much is it's a good, loud sub for a reasonable price. I wish I could go with a DC level 4 or xl, but it's just out of my budget :/)

My other question is what electrical upgrades would I need to do? I haven't done the big 3 yet (I'll probably use the leftover from wiring my amp etc.) and I just checked my alternator for my model car online and it's only 130amps. I guess that rules out the BTL?

A.) I've heard a lot of different things about AQ, good and bad, but if you don't care too much about SQ then then they'd be fine.

B.) The sub has nothing to do with electrical upgrades, that's all the amp. It will depend on what amp you get and your listening habits and to what impedance you wire the sub. I'd say Big 3 is always a good thing, no matter what.

[slim2fattycake 85]

Its funny that I have played with the SSD, Q, BL alittle bit, and the BTL as well as the AQ SDC2.5 and HDC3. I like them all. lol. Different strokes and different costs.

And if the AQ subs didn't have sound quality then why is one of the featured competitor on their site placed 3rd or higher in over 20 sound quality comps? Just saying.

If you really want to go all out loud, get either the HDC3 or the BTL and an AP30001D amp. But don't forget upgrade alt and battery.

If you have a budget then sure name your budget.

[BanginGMC 23]

Do you not want to go mainstream?

[Don Ganso 13]

Its funny that I have played with the SSD, Q, BL alittle bit, and the BTL as well as the AQ SDC2.5 and HDC3. I like them all. lol. Different strokes and different costs.

And if the AQ subs didn't have sound quality then why is one of the featured competitor on their site placed 3rd or higher in over 20 sound quality comps? Just saying.

If you really want to go all out loud, get either the HDC3 or the BTL and an AP30001D amp. But don't forget upgrade alt and battery.

If you have a budget then sure name your budget.

Install dependent for sure. All the AQ installs I've heard were SPL based, so I guess I can't say too much about their SQ, but I was just throwing out some stuff I've heard about them. I really liked my BL, so I'd go with Fi first, but AQ is definetly got good prices. I've heard that the HDC3s handle insane power, but so do the BTLs.

As long as you can afford a BTL, I'd say go for it.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

A couple other options would be the Sundown Zv.2 and the DR or DP series from Incriminator.

[joemacgames 0]

Its funny that I have played with the SSD, Q, BL alittle bit, and the BTL as well as the AQ SDC2.5 and HDC3. I like them all. lol. Different strokes and different costs.

And if the AQ subs didn't have sound quality then why is one of the featured competitor on their site placed 3rd or higher in over 20 sound quality comps? Just saying.

If you really want to go all out loud, get either the HDC3 or the BTL and an AP30001D amp. But don't forget upgrade alt and battery.

If you have a budget then sure name your budget.

I'd like to keep the sub and amp around 5-700 so I can get an enclosure and wiring kit and keep it all under 1000. Do you know how large of an amp I can safely run off my 130amp alternator with 1 battery? (assuming I do the big 3). As long as I can run the amp for it, I'll go with a BTL. Would it be a bad idea to get a 1200 or 1500 watt amp for now and then upgrade my alt and amp in the future?

I double checked my alternator and it's 135 and I have a battery that has 3 numbers on it. They say 1000 cranking amps, 850 and 150 reserve

Edited April 22, 2010 by jgarrison

[joemacgames 0]

Do you not want to go mainstream?

What do you mean by mainstream?

[jcarter1885 995]

Mainstream = the companies that are known to the public more than others such as: Kicker, JL Audio, Rockford Fosgate and etc.

[joemacgames 0]

Mainstream = the companies that are known to the public more than others such as: Kicker, JL Audio, Rockford Fosgate and etc.

Ok. I've been doing a lot of research and from what I've read kicker and JL are sort of overrated compared to DC, Incriminator, Ascendent etc.

I'm sure they're worth the money, but I just want to be different than everyone else at my school who jumps on the bandwagon and goes the usual kenwood, rockford, JL route

[Notorious97200 339]

a 130 amp alt ? I think you can use a 1500 watts amplifier easily, without a second battery. Just do the big 3 !

The BTL is a monster, is it what you need ? I don't know. With 1500 watts it should be loud enough.

You will give him more power later if you need it.

Don't go cheap on the box with these kind of beasts !!!

The Sundown Z15v2 is another monster. (that I would like to try one day)

[joemacgames 0]

a 130 amp alt ? I think you can use a 1500 watts amplifier easily, without a second battery. Just do the big 3 !

The BTL is a monster, is it what you need ? I don't know. With 1500 watts it should be loud enough.

You will give him more power later if you need it.

Don't go cheap on the box with these kind of beasts !!!

The Sundown Z15v2 is another monster. (that I would like to try one day)

Thanks! I think I'm gonna go with the 15" BTL and an MB Quart 1500 watt amp (unless there's something better for the same price. I found one for 300.)

Do I need to get anything except the cooling option? (its free between now and the end of may.) And should I go with D1 or D2?

[Notorious97200 339]

Seems like a good choice !

You can find cheaper (and still "good") amplifiers like Audiopipe for example.

The Sundown sae 1200 d is a monster : I think it can give you the 1500 watts you want ! Not expensive for an amp like that !

I don't know nothing about the options, but you need D2 to reach a 1 ohm load on the amp.

Think twice about the size of the sub : a 12" is not bad, and need a smaller box : so you can put the sub in the optimal box easier. But, if you have the room you can have a huge 18" !!!

Good luck

[joemacgames 0]

Seems like a good choice !

You can find cheaper (and still "good") amplifiers like Audiopipe for example.

The Sundown sae 1200 d is a monster : I think it can give you the 1500 watts you want ! Not expensive for an amp like that !

I don't know nothing about the options, but you need D2 to reach a 1 ohm load on the amp.

Think twice about the size of the sub : a 12" is not bad, and need a smaller box : so you can put the sub in the optimal box easier. But, if you have the room you can have a huge 18" !!!

Good luck

I double checked the price and I was thinking about the MB Quart 2000 watt one for 300. The 1500 is actually ~210. I'll check my trunk dimensions to see which would fit better between the 12 and 15.

I'll take a look at that Sundown sae 1200 though!

Thanks for all the help!

Edit: I have my sub and amp picked out, but I don't have an encosure to put it in

I looked at the Fisher Customs and Audibel Customs and both are in my price range, but I was wondering if any of you had any experience with them (good or bad) that you could share with me. I'm leaning towards the Audibel Customs because they come double baffled, carpeted, and the subs are flush mounted.

Audibel Customs: 1 12" $114

1 15" $135

Fisher Customs (with carpet 4.0 cubes) $210

The Audibel Customs doesn't include shipping, but I can't imagine it making up for the price difference (how much would shipping be for an enclosure?)

Also, The Audibel customs will do a kerffed port for 15% more. I know what a kerffed port looks like, but I don't know what they do

I have a trunk, so would it be best for my enclosure to be sub up, port back, or sub back, port back. Or does it make any difference.

Thanks!

Edited April 23, 2010 by jgarrison

[Don Ganso 13]

I double checked the price and I was thinking about the MB Quart 2000 watt one for 300. The 1500 is actually ~210. I'll check my trunk dimensions to see which would fit better between the 12 and 15.

I'll take a look at that Sundown sae 1200 though!

Thanks for all the help!

Edit: I have my sub and amp picked out, but I don't have an encosure to put it in

I looked at the Fisher Customs and Audibel Customs and both are in my price range, but I was wondering if any of you had any experience with them (good or bad) that you could share with me. I'm leaning towards the Audibel Customs because they come double baffled, carpeted, and the subs are flush mounted.

Audibel Customs: 1 12" $114

1 15" $135

Fisher Customs (with carpet 4.0 cubes) $210

The Audibel Customs doesn't include shipping, but I can't imagine it making up for the price difference (how much would shipping be for an enclosure?)

Also, The Audibel customs will do a kerffed port for 15% more. I know what a kerffed port looks like, but I don't know what they do

I have a trunk, so would it be best for my enclosure to be sub up, port back, or sub back, port back. Or does it make any difference.

Thanks!

I think with big heavy enclosures shipping will certainly make a difference!

It will probably be vehicle dependent, but I would say sub back port back because it seems to work well in a lot of trunk cars.

A kerfed port allows you to use less port area than a non-kerfed port requires, (just like areo ports), and I think it's because it decreases air turbulence or something, but I'm sure someone more knowledgable can elaborate.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

why is one of the featured competitor on their site placed 3rd or higher in over 20 sound quality comps? Just saying.

"SQ" competitions don't really mean much. A subjective score, included of which is "presentation" and some scale of how pretty the install is. I put very little stock in SQ competitions. What matters in the end is how it sounds to the end user. Building and setting up the system to the preference of judges is not really sound quality. Just saying.