SQ/SPL

[Third Eye Vision 0]

I don't want to upset anyone by saying I'm looking for an SQ setup if I'm actually looking for SPL, so I'm hoping someone can steer me in the right direction. I don't like mainstream rap music, and I don't ever plan on getting my setup metered or compete, so big dB numbers arent a concern. I listen to mostly underground hip hop and a little bit of rock, like 80s metallica/slayer, so hardly any of the songs I listen to dip into the really low frequency range. I'm running 2 audiobahns in a sealed box at about 2.7cf, and because of their design, they are incredibly cramped in my enclosure (go into WinISD and look up the Audiobahn AW1251 and let it select the optimum sealed box, and you'll see what I mean). The only time my bass doesnt sound boomy or muddy is if I actually play Young Jeezy or something that only has real low notes. So basically all of the music I want to listen to sounds like shit, and everything I don't want to listen to sounds decent. So what should I be looking to build? Should I even be looking at getting a custom ported box built? And if so, should I just be looking to tune it higher? From what I've read on here people that tune their stuff low just listen to jeezy and three 6 mafia, and when people tune higher they are looking to hit big spl numbers so I think thats where I'm confused. Can someone shed some light?

Edit: Not really sure how to sum it up, but I am NOT looking for real loud deep bass at low frequencies, I am looking for good sounding bass up to about 80hz and I do not have an amp for my door/deck speakers. I dont know if that is considered an SQ setup or not, cause of the term being so subjective, but I don't see any point to me building a box/sub setup that only sounds good on music that I don't listen to. Most of my music doesn't get too low to able able to take advantage of a low tuned ported box.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Third Eye Vision

[kjones 2]

1. car

2. budget

3. space to work with(save trunk space or to get the job done)

underground hip hop is where its at. Are you happy with output wise with what you have now?

[stealth 113]

try a z15 from sundown sealed. or some SSAs sealed. I recently heard an alumpro setup i really liked. it was sealed as well.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

1. car

2. budget

3. space to work with(save trunk space or to get the job done)

underground hip hop is where its at. Are you happy with output wise with what you have now?

car: 1997 Nissan Altima 4 door. Seats dont fold down, so I take advantage of the armrest that folds down and gives access to the trunk.

sub budget: About $200, looking at the SA 12, Lethal Injection 12, Fi SSD12, and I was looking at the Ascendant Audio Chaos 12 but didnt see a price listed.

box budget: I can afford to spend the 200 on a custom box if that is what will be best for my situation.

total budget: I suppose I could allow myself to pick up a soundsplinter rlp12 if I don't get a ported box and stick with sealed.

trunk space: no issue, since I'm only running one 12.

output: Since my subs sound so terrible at anything over 60hz I keep my crossover at 60hz, and everything under 60 hits pretty hard. I've never heard a ported box so I guess ignorance is bliss.

I really like underground hip hop, the beats dont knock as hard but I prefer the music/lyrics.

Edit: I'm running stock electrical and again I'm not trying to get my car to be the loudest in town, so I'm going to be running at around 600w. I think that will be plenty for one sub. My alternator is only like a year old so I'm not looking to get a 300amp alt or anything unless this one goes out. Thanks for the replies.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Third Eye Vision

[///M5 2,833]

Total budget, amplifier, and total space would all help. Saying "not a problem" isn't help.

[Nirvalica 0]

Sounds like you want some solid midbass. I'd look for some solid 6.5" comps up front with an amp to drive them.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

Total budget, amplifier, and total space would all help. Saying "not a problem" isn't help.

If you read my last post all of the subs I listed were roughly $200, and from the ported enclosure prices I've looked at they are roughly $200, so total budget would be around $400. Again, if a sealed box would be best for what I'm looking for then I would be able to spend more on a sub since sealed boxes are pretty cheap. If the ported box is the way to go then I'm not looking to spend over $200 for the sub. The amp is the amp listed in my sig, Sundown Audio SAE1000D. The reason I say total space is "not a problem" is because the box in my trunk is 2.7cf and all of the manufacturers recommendations from the listed subs are all below 2.7cf. I thought I had listed the size of the box that was already in my trunk so that was my mistake.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

Sounds like you want some solid midbass. I'd look for some solid 6.5" comps up front with an amp to drive them.

Would I have to hack up my car to get those in? I have zero fab skills and just as much tools, my door speakers right now are 6x8s.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

and again thanks for the replies, I just don't want to go out and blow 400 bucks on something that doesn't sound good to me.

[///M5 2,833]

I don't have sigs on, wasn't sure on the budget from your response, and am trying to figure out what portion of the rock or hip hop you listen to your current subs don't produce. Your boomy/muddy comments are a bit backwards from what we be expected via too small of an enclosure which makes it harder. I know what I wouldn't like about what you have but am not sure in your case. I see the comment that everything you listen to sounds like shit, but don't know what you mean. Also curious as to how you set your filters and gains on the Sundown you have.

[Nirvalica 0]

Sounds like you want some solid midbass. I'd look for some solid 6.5" comps up front with an amp to drive them.

Would I have to hack up my car to get those in? I have zero fab skills and just as much tools, my door speakers right now are 6x8s.

Amazon.com: Scosche SA68 Convertible 6x8-Inch Speaker Adapter - Pair: Electronics

That would make it simple to fit the 6.5" woofer into the 6x8 hole. Only problem would be finding a spot to mount the tweeters and crossovers. For tweeters, if you don't care a whole lot about looks, you can mount them right on the dash with some hot glue or double sided tape. I've never dealt with an Altima like that, so I'm not sure about your mounting options. For the sub, I would just stick with sealed. You said you aren't looking for ridiculous output or the ability to go real low, so sealed sounds like it'll work great for you. But, a single 12" sealed might not be as loud as the two audiobahns you had. It's difficult to be sure w/o trying both though. I would recommend going with a few 8's or 10's though. They'll likely be cheaper and it might give you more of the sound you are looking for

[Third Eye Vision 0]

I don't have sigs on, wasn't sure on the budget from your response, and am trying to figure out what portion of the rock or hip hop you listen to your current subs don't produce. Your boomy/muddy comments are a bit backwards from what we be expected via too small of an enclosure which makes it harder. I know what I wouldn't like about what you have but am not sure in your case. I see the comment that everything you listen to sounds like shit, but don't know what you mean. Also curious as to how you set your filters and gains on the Sundown you have.

Right now I'm still using a 2003 model Hifonics Zues ZX7500 class AB amp, my Sundown shows up on Thursday. Crossover was at 80hz on the amp as well as the deck, but since then I've lowered the crossover point to around 60 and lowered the crossover point on my door/deck speakers to try to compensate. If you have WinISD alpha installed, and have some spare time, load up the "Audiobahn AW1251T" and let it choose a box for it. It's already built into my program so it should be in yours as well. I come up with a sealed box at 27.5cf for one sub. Load up the same driver in a box at 1.35cf and that's where I'm at. The transfer function graph shows that at 47hz I'm at -3dB, at 1dB by 60hz, and by the time it hits 80hz it's at 3dB. Which I'm assuming is where im gettin that boomy distorted bass. After looking at that graph I took advantage of the bass boost knob at 45hz on the amp, turned it up about a 1/4 turn so I can get some low frequency bass out of the subs. And out of curiosity what wouldn't you like about the setup. I'm not really good on the terminology for most of the stuff so its hard for me to explain. But I think loading up that sub in WinISD for yourself will explain it way better than I ever could. I'll see if i can load up my photobucket account and add soem pics of the graphs.

edit: I had placed transient response as the graph title instead of transfer function

Edited March 17, 2010 by Third Eye Vision

[Third Eye Vision 0]

[Nirvalica 0]

I don't have sigs on, wasn't sure on the budget from your response, and am trying to figure out what portion of the rock or hip hop you listen to your current subs don't produce. Your boomy/muddy comments are a bit backwards from what we be expected via too small of an enclosure which makes it harder. I know what I wouldn't like about what you have but am not sure in your case. I see the comment that everything you listen to sounds like shit, but don't know what you mean. Also curious as to how you set your filters and gains on the Sundown you have.

Right now I'm still using a 2003 model Hifonics Zues ZX7500 class AB amp, my Sundown shows up on Thursday. Crossover was at 80hz on the amp as well as the deck, but since then I've lowered the crossover point to around 60 and lowered the crossover point on my door/deck speakers to try to compensate. If you have WinISD alpha installed, and have some spare time, load up the "Audiobahn AW1251T" and let it choose a box for it. It's already built into my program so it should be in yours as well. I come up with a sealed box at 27.5cf for one sub. Load up the same driver in a box at 1.35cf and that's where I'm at. The transfer function graph shows that at 47hz I'm at -3dB, at 1dB by 60hz, and by the time it hits 80hz it's at 3dB. Which I'm assuming is where im gettin that boomy distorted bass. After looking at that graph I took advantage of the bass boost knob at 45hz on the amp, turned it up about a 1/4 turn so I can get some low frequency bass out of the subs. And out of curiosity what wouldn't you like about the setup. I'm not really good on the terminology for most of the stuff so its hard for me to explain. But I think loading up that sub in WinISD for yourself will explain it way better than I ever could. I'll see if i can load up my photobucket account and add soem pics of the graphs.

edit: I had placed transient response as the graph title instead of transfer function

I thought at the beginning you said you liked higher pitched bass like in rock and old school rap. I would turn your lowpass back up to somewhere around 80-100hz and turn the bass boost down. Probably part of the problem is that box is too small for the sub. If it's modeling best in a 27cuft box, that's like an infinite baffle setup. You might do better with different subs in that small sealed box. I still think you should get some 8's or even 6.5" like

...

[Third Eye Vision 0]

I don't have sigs on, wasn't sure on the budget from your response, and am trying to figure out what portion of the rock or hip hop you listen to your current subs don't produce. Your boomy/muddy comments are a bit backwards from what we be expected via too small of an enclosure which makes it harder. I know what I wouldn't like about what you have but am not sure in your case. I see the comment that everything you listen to sounds like shit, but don't know what you mean. Also curious as to how you set your filters and gains on the Sundown you have.

Right now I'm still using a 2003 model Hifonics Zues ZX7500 class AB amp, my Sundown shows up on Thursday. Crossover was at 80hz on the amp as well as the deck, but since then I've lowered the crossover point to around 60 and lowered the crossover point on my door/deck speakers to try to compensate. If you have WinISD alpha installed, and have some spare time, load up the "Audiobahn AW1251T" and let it choose a box for it. It's already built into my program so it should be in yours as well. I come up with a sealed box at 27.5cf for one sub. Load up the same driver in a box at 1.35cf and that's where I'm at. The transfer function graph shows that at 47hz I'm at -3dB, at 1dB by 60hz, and by the time it hits 80hz it's at 3dB. Which I'm assuming is where im gettin that boomy distorted bass. After looking at that graph I took advantage of the bass boost knob at 45hz on the amp, turned it up about a 1/4 turn so I can get some low frequency bass out of the subs. And out of curiosity what wouldn't you like about the setup. I'm not really good on the terminology for most of the stuff so its hard for me to explain. But I think loading up that sub in WinISD for yourself will explain it way better than I ever could. I'll see if i can load up my photobucket account and add soem pics of the graphs.

edit: I had placed transient response as the graph title instead of transfer function

I thought at the beginning you said you liked higher pitched bass like in rock and old school rap. I would turn your lowpass back up to somewhere around 80-100hz and turn the bass boost down. Probably part of the problem is that box is too small for the sub. If it's modeling best in a 27cuft box, that's like an infinite baffle setup. You might do better with different subs in that small sealed box. I still think you should get some 8's or even 6.5" like

...

Yeah, I think you are misunderstanding me though. The problem is, when my stereo tries to play anything over 60hz the bass gets distorted and boomy due to the shitty subs. The reason I lowered my crossover was to filter out the shitty sounding bass, so my goal is to get 1 nice sub that will play up to 80hz accurately. I mean there is nothing wrong with the box itself, but my subs sound like shit in them. I stated at the begining that I'm looking to replace them. I'm not so concerned with the lower bass, like stuff in the 30's because my music doesnt get that low. But since I have the higher bass filtered out, there is such a small window where there is actually bass. So I had to beef up the lower freq's so that I have some bass.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

cant take credit for the image, and cant remember where i found it. but if you look at the graph i posted earlier, in a 1.35cf box my subs list a qtc of 1.2...

[Third Eye Vision 0]

Sounds like you want some solid midbass. I'd look for some solid 6.5" comps up front with an amp to drive them.

Would I have to hack up my car to get those in? I have zero fab skills and just as much tools, my door speakers right now are 6x8s.

Amazon.com: Scosche SA68 Convertible 6x8-Inch Speaker Adapter - Pair: Electronics

That would make it simple to fit the 6.5" woofer into the 6x8 hole. Only problem would be finding a spot to mount the tweeters and crossovers. For tweeters, if you don't care a whole lot about looks, you can mount them right on the dash with some hot glue or double sided tape. I've never dealt with an Altima like that, so I'm not sure about your mounting options. For the sub, I would just stick with sealed. You said you aren't looking for ridiculous output or the ability to go real low, so sealed sounds like it'll work great for you. But, a single 12" sealed might not be as loud as the two audiobahns you had. It's difficult to be sure w/o trying both though. I would recommend going with a few 8's or 10's though. They'll likely be cheaper and it might give you more of the sound you are looking for

I might look into gettin some of those adapter plates in the future, seems like nothing more than screwing them into place. What are the advantages to running 6.5's over the 6x8's? I would think the larger 6x8 would produce better bass, is it just the fact that the 6.5s would be dedicated to just bass and not any higher freqs?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Third Eye Vision

[Nirvalica 0]

Sounds like you want some solid midbass. I'd look for some solid 6.5" comps up front with an amp to drive them.

Would I have to hack up my car to get those in? I have zero fab skills and just as much tools, my door speakers right now are 6x8s.

Amazon.com: Scosche SA68 Convertible 6x8-Inch Speaker Adapter - Pair: Electronics

That would make it simple to fit the 6.5" woofer into the 6x8 hole. Only problem would be finding a spot to mount the tweeters and crossovers. For tweeters, if you don't care a whole lot about looks, you can mount them right on the dash with some hot glue or double sided tape. I've never dealt with an Altima like that, so I'm not sure about your mounting options. For the sub, I would just stick with sealed. You said you aren't looking for ridiculous output or the ability to go real low, so sealed sounds like it'll work great for you. But, a single 12" sealed might not be as loud as the two audiobahns you had. It's difficult to be sure w/o trying both though. I would recommend going with a few 8's or 10's though. They'll likely be cheaper and it might give you more of the sound you are looking for

I might look into gettin some of those adapter plates in the future, seems like nothing more than screwing them into place. What are the advantages to running 6.5's over the 6x8's? I would think the larger 6x8 would produce better bass, is it just the fact that the 6.5s would be dedicated to just bass and not any higher freqs?

Well for one, there are more 6.5's available then 6x8. Much bigger variety, plus most 6x8's are coaxial, which means the tweet and mid are together on one speaker. Components tend to sound better in all around sq. If you have decent 6x8's, then just get an amp for them. If you have stock speakers, you'll want some aftermarket speakers for better SQ. I would go with 6.5's, but depending on what you consider good sounding speakers, 6x8's with an amp might be fine for you.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

Sounds like you want some solid midbass. I'd look for some solid 6.5" comps up front with an amp to drive them.

Would I have to hack up my car to get those in? I have zero fab skills and just as much tools, my door speakers right now are 6x8s.

Amazon.com: Scosche SA68 Convertible 6x8-Inch Speaker Adapter - Pair: Electronics

That would make it simple to fit the 6.5" woofer into the 6x8 hole. Only problem would be finding a spot to mount the tweeters and crossovers. For tweeters, if you don't care a whole lot about looks, you can mount them right on the dash with some hot glue or double sided tape. I've never dealt with an Altima like that, so I'm not sure about your mounting options. For the sub, I would just stick with sealed. You said you aren't looking for ridiculous output or the ability to go real low, so sealed sounds like it'll work great for you. But, a single 12" sealed might not be as loud as the two audiobahns you had. It's difficult to be sure w/o trying both though. I would recommend going with a few 8's or 10's though. They'll likely be cheaper and it might give you more of the sound you are looking for

I might look into gettin some of those adapter plates in the future, seems like nothing more than screwing them into place. What are the advantages to running 6.5's over the 6x8's? I would think the larger 6x8 would produce better bass, is it just the fact that the 6.5s would be dedicated to just bass and not any higher freqs?

Well for one, there are more 6.5's available then 6x8. Much bigger variety, plus most 6x8's are coaxial, which means the tweet and mid are together on one speaker. Components tend to sound better in all around sq. If you have decent 6x8's, then just get an amp for them. If you have stock speakers, you'll want some aftermarket speakers for better SQ. I would go with 6.5's, but depending on what you consider good sounding speakers, 6x8's with an amp might be fine for you.

Yeah I have 2 sets of 6x8's, I got some alpines that sound real clean but only go down to 70hz, I swapped them out for my fosgates cause the fosgates get down to 60hz and since I lowered my crossover on the sub I needed the door speakers up front to get lower. They definately don't sound as nice as the Alpines tho. I'll lok into gettin some of those components in the future tho.

[///M5 2,833]

Yeah, I think you are misunderstanding me though. The problem is, when my stereo tries to play anything over 60hz the bass gets distorted and boomy due to the shitty subs. The reason I lowered my crossover was to filter out the shitty sounding bass, so my goal is to get 1 nice sub that will play up to 80hz accurately. I mean there is nothing wrong with the box itself, but my subs sound like shit in them. I stated at the begining that I'm looking to replace them. I'm not so concerned with the lower bass, like stuff in the 30's because my music doesnt get that low. But since I have the higher bass filtered out, there is such a small window where there is actually bass. So I had to beef up the lower freq's so that I have some bass.

My misunderstanding was you not sharing details, I am definitely familiar with overall Q and exactly why I asked. It sounded to me like you read a description and used that as your issue instead of sharing what was wrong with your system. I wanted clarification, otherwise you could be chasing a pipe dream that isn't yours. As for the bass you are looking for and why it was confusing, I roll my subs off by 50Hz, anything above to me is for the front stage. Not so unusual and therefore pretty hard to guess it was the midbass frequencies that you wanted your sub to play better, although you can see that was already offered as an option as well. If you don't mind how your subs sound now in the lower frequencies, I would still say that is definitely the answer. Beef up the fronts, lower your crossover and then decide if you need more below where your fronts can't play.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

Yeah, I think you are misunderstanding me though. The problem is, when my stereo tries to play anything over 60hz the bass gets distorted and boomy due to the shitty subs. The reason I lowered my crossover was to filter out the shitty sounding bass, so my goal is to get 1 nice sub that will play up to 80hz accurately. I mean there is nothing wrong with the box itself, but my subs sound like shit in them. I stated at the begining that I'm looking to replace them. I'm not so concerned with the lower bass, like stuff in the 30's because my music doesnt get that low. But since I have the higher bass filtered out, there is such a small window where there is actually bass. So I had to beef up the lower freq's so that I have some bass.

My misunderstanding was you not sharing details, I am definitely familiar with overall Q and exactly why I asked. It sounded to me like you read a description and used that as your issue instead of sharing what was wrong with your system. I wanted clarification, otherwise you could be chasing a pipe dream that isn't yours. As for the bass you are looking for and why it was confusing, I roll my subs off by 50Hz, anything above to me is for the front stage. Not so unusual and therefore pretty hard to guess it was the midbass frequencies that you wanted your sub to play better, although you can see that was already offered as an option as well. If you don't mind how your subs sound now in the lower frequencies, I would still say that is definitely the answer. Beef up the fronts, lower your crossover and then decide if you need more below where your fronts can't play.

m5, i was talkin about nirvalica, you understood me just fine.

[Third Eye Vision 0]

sweet lucifer, just got my delivery from dB-r. after i get a new sub it will be like sex in my ears.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Third Eye Vision

[kjones 2]

i would go sealed and put more money on the sub, cause sealed sounds fairly well with UG rap.. but its the speakers you are really looking at tho, trying damping the doors and what are you running now?