Two-way active front stage

[///M5 2,833]

Everything is a compromise. I'd much rather run the Seas Nextels than the L8...

[abmoore 8]

Are those going to also be an output compromise, I guess the midbass will be better than what I have so maybe ill try more fidelity in the midrange.

[Impious 1,476]

Just a crazy idea to throw out there;

DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »

That driver with 12mm Xmax has the same displacement (and hence, output potential) as an 8" driver with 7mm Xmax and does it with clean extension well above your intended bandwidth. The downside is the lower efficiency. If you wanted to get nutty, have time alignment and large door panels....you could run two of them per door (I'm assuming two 7" drivers won't fit in your kicks) for basically the same cost as one of those 18 Sound drivers. The parameters allow for pretty good low frequency extension IB. And since you are mating with horns at a relatively low crossover frequency you won't run into problems with destructive interference between the drivers in the midrange, they would effectively "act" as a single driver throughout your entire intended bandwidth.

That should have the makings of a midbass monster while maintaining accurate midrange reproduction.....imaging will only be good from the drivers seat, but that's the compromise. Also dependent on how much power you can throw at them.

I have a few of those drivers laying around to test out aswell

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

The dual Exodus setup would be wicked. These Exodus look evil, and I hear they have mad output. Probably ALOT easier to Fit also.

Did you email Aura Sound about the 10"s?

[abmoore 8]

Just a crazy idea to throw out there;

DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »

That driver with 12mm Xmax has the same displacement (and hence, output potential) as an 8" driver with 7mm Xmax and does it with clean extension well above your intended bandwidth. The downside is the lower efficiency. If you wanted to get nutty, have time alignment and large door panels....you could run two of them per door (I'm assuming two 7" drivers won't fit in your kicks) for basically the same cost as one of those 18 Sound drivers. The parameters allow for pretty good low frequency extension IB. And since you are mating with horns at a relatively low crossover frequency you won't run into problems with destructive interference between the drivers in the midrange, they would effectively "act" as a single driver throughout your entire intended bandwidth.

That should have the makings of a midbass monster while maintaining accurate midrange reproduction.....imaging will only be good from the drivers seat, but that's the compromise. Also dependent on how much power you can throw at them.

I have a few of those drivers laying around to test out aswell

I think I am going to try that now, that idea does sound sick. So I would need something for time correction between the two midbass drivers but I only have a three way active crossover so I guess I would need to upgrade that. I hope that would be some monster midbass though, that's insane xmax, plus I wouldn't need to destroy my door panel for that.

And no I never called aura sound because I decided I would keep looking around and look at that option last, I still might though but this option is so far my favorite, although I like the 18s drivers too.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Just a crazy idea to throw out there;

DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »

That driver with 12mm Xmax has the same displacement (and hence, output potential) as an 8" driver with 7mm Xmax and does it with clean extension well above your intended bandwidth. The downside is the lower efficiency. If you wanted to get nutty, have time alignment and large door panels....you could run two of them per door (I'm assuming two 7" drivers won't fit in your kicks) for basically the same cost as one of those 18 Sound drivers. The parameters allow for pretty good low frequency extension IB. And since you are mating with horns at a relatively low crossover frequency you won't run into problems with destructive interference between the drivers in the midrange, they would effectively "act" as a single driver throughout your entire intended bandwidth.

That should have the makings of a midbass monster while maintaining accurate midrange reproduction.....imaging will only be good from the drivers seat, but that's the compromise. Also dependent on how much power you can throw at them.

I have a few of those drivers laying around to test out aswell

I think I am going to try that now, that idea does sound sick. So I would need something for time correction between the two midbass drivers but I only have a three way active crossover so I guess I would need to upgrade that. I hope that would be some monster midbass though, that's insane xmax, plus I wouldn't need to destroy my door panel for that.

And no I never called aura sound because I decided I would keep looking around and look at that option last, I still might though but this option is so far my favorite, although I like the 18s drivers too.

You will be happy with the dual setup. Definetly easier to install also.

Aura wanted 200 ea plus shipping so I would ONLY do that if you REALLY want them. And yes I did get the last two out of three where I got em'.

[abmoore 8]

Just a crazy idea to throw out there;

DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »

That driver with 12mm Xmax has the same displacement (and hence, output potential) as an 8" driver with 7mm Xmax and does it with clean extension well above your intended bandwidth. The downside is the lower efficiency. If you wanted to get nutty, have time alignment and large door panels....you could run two of them per door (I'm assuming two 7" drivers won't fit in your kicks) for basically the same cost as one of those 18 Sound drivers. The parameters allow for pretty good low frequency extension IB. And since you are mating with horns at a relatively low crossover frequency you won't run into problems with destructive interference between the drivers in the midrange, they would effectively "act" as a single driver throughout your entire intended bandwidth.

That should have the makings of a midbass monster while maintaining accurate midrange reproduction.....imaging will only be good from the drivers seat, but that's the compromise. Also dependent on how much power you can throw at them.

I have a few of those drivers laying around to test out aswell

I think I am going to try that now, that idea does sound sick. So I would need something for time correction between the two midbass drivers but I only have a three way active crossover so I guess I would need to upgrade that. I hope that would be some monster midbass though, that's insane xmax, plus I wouldn't need to destroy my door panel for that.

And no I never called aura sound because I decided I would keep looking around and look at that option last, I still might though but this option is so far my favorite, although I like the 18s drivers too.

You will be happy with the dual setup. Definetly easier to install also.

Aura wanted 200 ea plus shipping so I would ONLY do that if you REALLY want them. And yes I did get the last two out of three where I got em'.

I knew it!!! Yeah, I should be pretty happy with this, will get the money together and hopefully then some pics. Need to pic a different amp now because those are 8 ohm I believe.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Just a crazy idea to throw out there;

DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »

That driver with 12mm Xmax has the same displacement (and hence, output potential) as an 8" driver with 7mm Xmax and does it with clean extension well above your intended bandwidth. The downside is the lower efficiency. If you wanted to get nutty, have time alignment and large door panels....you could run two of them per door (I'm assuming two 7" drivers won't fit in your kicks) for basically the same cost as one of those 18 Sound drivers. The parameters allow for pretty good low frequency extension IB. And since you are mating with horns at a relatively low crossover frequency you won't run into problems with destructive interference between the drivers in the midrange, they would effectively "act" as a single driver throughout your entire intended bandwidth.

That should have the makings of a midbass monster while maintaining accurate midrange reproduction.....imaging will only be good from the drivers seat, but that's the compromise. Also dependent on how much power you can throw at them.

I have a few of those drivers laying around to test out aswell

I think I am going to try that now, that idea does sound sick. So I would need something for time correction between the two midbass drivers but I only have a three way active crossover so I guess I would need to upgrade that. I hope that would be some monster midbass though, that's insane xmax, plus I wouldn't need to destroy my door panel for that.

And no I never called aura sound because I decided I would keep looking around and look at that option last, I still might though but this option is so far my favorite, although I like the 18s drivers too.

You will be happy with the dual setup. Definetly easier to install also.

Aura wanted 200 ea plus shipping so I would ONLY do that if you REALLY want them. And yes I did get the last two out of three where I got em'.

I knew it!!! Yeah, I should be pretty happy with this, will get the money together and hopefully then some pics. Need to pic a different amp now because those are 8 ohm I believe.

If you are wiring them dual you will have a 4ohm load presented to the amp.

As far as T/A I would just get everything in and see how it sounds with what you have. You can try different phase combinations between the two sides to help with timing also.

[Impious 1,476]

So I would need something for time correction between the two midbass drivers but I only have a three way active crossover so I guess I would need to upgrade that.

You would just need to be able to apply time delay to the left side midbass drivers, not between the individual midbass drivers (if you were going with 4 mids total). IIRC you were going to go with an H701? If so, it would handle the task with ease. I'm not overly familiar with that H100, but if it is a 3-way crossover with time alignment (highpass for horns, bandpass for mids and lowpass for subs) then it will be able to handle the task aswell.

Need to pic a different amp now because those are 8 ohm I believe.

Yes, they are 8ohm. But if you are using two per side, wire them in parallel for a final 4ohm load to the amp per channel.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Dude you are solid, I JUST READ YOUR SIG and you are using the H100 which has T/A . Looks like YOU NEED TO READ THE MANUAL.

[abmoore 8]

Sorry, I use TA now, I thought he meant TA for all of the mids, not just between each side, so if I needed to do that I would need four amp channels not two, but now I see I can run them in parallel, I was just confused with what he said.

[abmoore 8]

What would be a good way of going about the build process? Like how strong of an enclosure should I be building to house that much midbass, and how much would on and off axis matter with these drivers? I guess I should use some birch wood and clay, then use some deadener and foam? I think I asked this earlier but would anything else need to be done to the sheet metal or panels?

[Impious 1,476]

I wouldn't enclose them, unless you are worried about controlling cone excursion in the bottom octaves. Modeling them the difference between two of them sealed in a .4cuft enclosure (.707 Qtc) and two of them IB from 70hz and up is nonexistent, from 70hz and down the IB has a more gradual rolloff (and thus more output). But sealed in .4cuft the drivers don't exceed Xmax with rated power, IB they exceed Xmax @ 45hz with rated power. Given I believe you intended to set the highpass somewhere in the 50-60hz range this shouldn't pose much of an issue assuming you use an acceptably steep slope.

So I would mount them to a solid baffle in your door (affixed to the metal door frame, not the plastic panel) with appropriate amounts of sound deadening applied to the door to eliminate resonance and rattles, and a solid barrier to properly "seal" the inner sheetmetal door panel. For tips, information and products to accomplish the sound deadening aspect I would highly recommend you contact Don @ SDS

The drivers will primarily be operating within their piston range, so there won't be much difference in the frequency response of the speakers themselves between on and off axis.

[abmoore 8]

Old thread, yes I know, but I was advised against starting a new thread even with different goals. So please try and look past the fact that this is a continuation, I will consider all help as usual, and thanks to all that have attempted to help many times before. My budget has changed drastically recently so I am in the middle of selling all of my equipment and starting over with something less expensive. I have gotten about $2200 so far and still have more to sell, but don't necessarily need to spend all of it. For the new sub stage, I am getting 2 Fi Q 15s or 18s, and a AQ2200d, still considering the tuning based on what else I decide on. So that sets me back about $1000. I have an Arc Audio FD 4150, so I might keep that being it is a pretty solid amp. For processing, I am keeping the Alpine W505 and the PXA-100. I would still like something a little strong on the midbass side and still want a warmer sound from the tweets, as well as warm overall. The main goal I am changing is the high output. I wouldn't mind be able to reach levels high enough to tailgate with some friends, but not much is needed for that due to the close proximity. So I guess the goal has shifted more to the SQ side of things. I still tend to listen to mostly newer rock, blues, and older rock, occasionally dipping into rap/hip-hop, but I found the better I got everything to sound, the more types of music I listened to. The vehicle is still a 2004 Tahoe, and for mounting locations kickpanels I am guessing are ideal, depending on the midbass I decide on. I guess if I decide on an 8, the doors might work a bit better. Active is back in the picture, because passive might not reach my goals.

So I want a budget, most likely with less than what I will make through the sales of old equipment. I will probably end up making about 1200 more, conservative yet practical estimate, and I am already dropping the 1000 on the sub stage. I will need another amp most likely for the highs, I would like to keep the Arc amp for the midbass (~360x2 at 4, or ~190x2 at 8, little underrated). But first I need to decide on some drivers, a midbass and something for the highs. Earlier in the thread there was a decision on horns and they would fit, but I was advised to use the ultras from the guys at ID. Those being too expensive, is there any reason that the CD1es wouldn't work. They never gave me a reason why they wouldn't. I still think that kicks on axis with a 7 or 6.5 and a oversize tweet will work best, maybe tweet in the a-pillar, but would put those a little off axis, around 20-30 degrees to meet in between the passenger and driver position. I am also buying a XS Power 3400d which is $240, possibly a 1200d as a secondary if the primary isn't enough for an extra 180. Also will be buying some SDS MLV and CCF, not sure of price.

So I guess for less than 700 maybe, will need drivers and an amp. So thanks for all the help so far and any extra will be greatly appreciated. Oh I did research more on zaphs site, just need some suggestions to see what I need to be working with.

[abmoore 8]

Or should I start a new thread?

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Hey Brother, I can see you are still working on designing your front stage. Its not that I advise against starting a new thread, BUT do recommend that you DON'T start a new thread with the same tittle and put a link to the other thread in the first post.

Anyways I think you are fine continuing this thread.

I personally have never played with horns, BUT If thats the route you are interested in I would try finding people with horns to give you advice. (maybe start a topic about horns?)

I don't know what your conversation intailed with ID on the phone, but something you said must have gave them the idea you wouldn't be happy with anything less than the expensive horns? Once again IDK because I have never used horns and didn't hear the phone convesation.

NOW that you are considering SQ are you open to a 3" full range driver with a monster midbass driver? This would really open up your choices on midbass drivers.

Otherwise I recommend some auto tweeters from Madi Sound, They are in the budget, and will be the easiest to fit by far out of the three options I am considering for you.

I think at this point the Techs on here want to see YOU make a choice on what YOU are going run for highs, and then they will probably help you dial in the rest. IDK just a guess brother, as I am in the same boat as you.

[///M5 2,833]

A 3" driver won't be loud enough if any of your old goals exist. An array of 4-5 2" inchers might though.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

A 3" driver won't be loud enough if any of your old goals exist. An array of 4-5 2" inchers might though.

I would LOVE to see a line array of 2"er's done, I just didn't have the room in my small car. I do on the other hand plan on doing a line array in a future vehicle. My question to you Sean is, What would be the correct placement of the line array? i.e. flat across the dash, stacked up the a-pillar, along the sun visors, on the doors?

LIke I said in the other topic, IF the 3" full ranger doesn't make me happy with output, I will use the Dayton 2"dome. Hey NCSU, What do you think of the 2" Dayton dome?

[///M5 2,833]

Vertical & the 2" dome has a really hard time playing low. I am also personally biased against dome midranges. The dome will also have a really hard time having short center to center distances...

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Vertical & the 2" dome has a really hard time playing low. I am also personally biased against dome midranges. The dome will also have a really hard time having short center to center distances...

So up the a-pillar or stacked in the door are both exceptable mounting options for the line array? if up the apillar, do they need to be mounted plum or can they follow the slope of the pillar?

I was unsure about the 2" dome, but definetly seem to learn quicker by being corrected, So I stand corrected.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Old thread, yes I know, but I was advised against starting a new thread even with different goals. So please try and look past the fact that this is a continuation, I will consider all help as usual, and thanks to all that have attempted to help many times before. My budget has changed drastically recently so I am in the middle of selling all of my equipment and starting over with something less expensive. I have gotten about $2200 so far and still have more to sell, but don't necessarily need to spend all of it. For the new sub stage, I am getting 2 Fi Q 15s or 18s, and a AQ2200d, still considering the tuning based on what else I decide on. So that sets me back about $1000. I have an Arc Audio FD 4150, so I might keep that being it is a pretty solid amp. For processing, I am keeping the Alpine W505 and the PXA-100. I would still like something a little strong on the midbass side and still want a warmer sound from the tweets, as well as warm overall. The main goal I am changing is the high output. I wouldn't mind be able to reach levels high enough to tailgate with some friends, but not much is needed for that due to the close proximity. So I guess the goal has shifted more to the SQ side of things. I still tend to listen to mostly newer rock, blues, and older rock, occasionally dipping into rap/hip-hop, but I found the better I got everything to sound, the more types of music I listened to. The vehicle is still a 2004 Tahoe, and for mounting locations kickpanels I am guessing are ideal, depending on the midbass I decide on. I guess if I decide on an 8, the doors might work a bit better. Active is back in the picture, because passive might not reach my goals.

So I want a budget, most likely with less than what I will make through the sales of old equipment. I will probably end up making about 1200 more, conservative yet practical estimate, and I am already dropping the 1000 on the sub stage. I will need another amp most likely for the highs, I would like to keep the Arc amp for the midbass (~360x2 at 4, or ~190x2 at 8, little underrated). But first I need to decide on some drivers, a midbass and something for the highs. Earlier in the thread there was a decision on horns and they would fit, but I was advised to use the ultras from the guys at ID. Those being too expensive, is there any reason that the CD1es wouldn't work. They never gave me a reason why they wouldn't. I still think that kicks on axis with a 7 or 6.5 and a oversize tweet will work best, maybe tweet in the a-pillar, but would put those a little off axis, around 20-30 degrees to meet in between the passenger and driver position. I am also buying a XS Power 3400d which is $240, possibly a 1200d as a secondary if the primary isn't enough for an extra 180. Also will be buying some SDS MLV and CCF, not sure of price.

So I guess for less than 700 maybe, will need drivers and an amp. So thanks for all the help so far and any extra will be greatly appreciated. Oh I did research more on zaphs site, just need some suggestions to see what I need to be working with.

Hey Sean, I know the kid was long winded in his post BUT he did state he was changing the output goal in exchange for SQ.

I will definetly agree with the listening to more kinds of music because they sounded better.

[abmoore 8]

Apologies for the massive mid thread post. Long winded almost doesn't give it justice lol. I was thinking maybe a 1'', maybe a radiating tweeter, or the rs28f, even though many of them have a lot of HD under or around 2-2.5 khz. Maybe also starting off with a 7 or 8 inch paper coned woofer or something similar, since all of the mids I have used were aluminum it seems. Just to get a different sound then be able to have a more educated pick down the road, a driver that better suits my needs. Should I focus more on low non linear distortion than linear? Seems to be what I have gotten out of some different readings, but I have also read otherwise...

[///M5 2,833]

Same rules apply as to any other driver. As high as possible, as equal distant as possible (now multiple drivers) with the one caveat being as vertical as possible. Just like with anything else in a car there are compromises though and depending on your goals you can choose which ones to have.

[///M5 2,833]

Oh, don't get me wrong. That 2" dome is nice. Zaph wouldn't have used it in the ZDT's if it wasn't. It may even be a great match for someone in a car, but not someone with output in mind. Unless it is just used as a tweeter that digs, but then I'd rather buy a tweeter that digs.

[abmoore 8]

The line array wouldn't be as much of an SQ approach would it? The A pillar would work here and I'm sure I could fit 4 almost vertically, pretty high too.