Starting to plan my Sound Stage.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

What wasn't clear?

HA HA speaker recommendations???

Was waiting to try and understand your definition of loud.

I understand your NO nonsense style, and I think I am pretty good at understanding your anwser's, BUT even a Smart guy like me can only ASS-U-ME so much. I don't expect you to spoon feed me, just fill in the blanks, or send me in the right direction. I try my hardest to word my question's correctly for you.

So I gather I should probably make the 4 1/2" fit? Is the 4 1/2" on axis enough in the A-pillar?

Loud is a subjective word, Please enlighten me?

I deal with the general public for a living also, I sound like a broken record to myself EVERYDAY as I repeat myself to EVERY new customer that has stupid question's. The only difference is I get to HURT them when they are done asking the stupid questions!

[///M5 2,833]

I apologize, I shouldn't have used Loud or Definition. Been on a tear today on the phone and shouldn't type while I am on the phone, but I am super ADD and have to do two things at once. Sorry. Meant to say description of said output from your previous post.

IE, was trying to refer to your half the output statement.

So a 3" on axis on the dash pointing right at me will net enough output with a 15" sub? The type-r SPR-s17 comps have about half the output I am looking for.

Some background on the comps, the install, the power, the frequencies where "half" is, how you determined it was half and so on, what happens when you turn them up to compensate and so on. Last thing I want to do is recommend something and have it not do what you want.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Some background on the comps, the install, the power, the frequencies where "half" is, how you determined it was half and so on, what happens when you turn them up to compensate and so on. Last thing I want to do is recommend something and have it not do what you want.

Man you always make me realize I already know the answer to my questions, The frequencies that are lacking are below 1000hz so not even covered by the midrange. BINGO. I think I'm on the right page now.

I had the type-r 6.5 in the factory location first, with the tweeter in the a pillar, then I built the pods to place the 6.5 on axis, and moved the tweeter to the upper door panel.

I was using the mrp-f600 for the front comps and the 6x9 rears, I had the gain on the front's half and the gains on the rears about 1/4.

If I listen to Honky Tonk , Country, or accouctic music I could turn up the volume as much as I want.

The biggest anomaly is a dip around 200hz, everything else is close enough to flat I am good until I go full tilt, then the 6.5's are straining and breaking up.

sub crossovered at 80hz 18db slope , fronts and rears crossed at 80hz 18db slope, on the H100, this is what blended best and really keep the sub clean and smooth.

SPR-17s specs. sensitivity 87db, rms 8-110 watts, peak 330 watts, freq, response 65-27k.

Edited February 23, 2010 by j-roadtatts

[REVpuggie 23]

Try the stuff I said

[///M5 2,833]

I agree with BASSmaster (everytime I see that handle this week in particular I picture Kevin VanDam). I have never had a system where I ran the stock phasing on all drivers. You may have an anomaly that could easily be resolved by switching the phase on one of your mids.

That being said, I also think your path is fine. If you are truly wanting more in the midrange a dedicated 3" driver will be "enough" although if you really want to wang you may have to have a second setting on your eq to roll it off higher in the passband to allow it to play louder. Of course you can compensate by rolling the midbass up a bit, but if you are going to really optimize the system for output mostly it would require a midbass than can extend a bit more than some.

Glad you see the madness in my questioning...and the reason that the T&C's are so specific. It is WAY easier to help someone when they really let you know what they have and what they want to do.

That being said, try switching the phase on a midrange and let us know what happens. In reality I would try every combination of phase with the front comps and see what sounds best. Before doing it I'd flatten any eq you have applied and start flat. Re-adjust after testing phase and report back

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

I agree with BASSmaster (everytime I see that handle this week in particular I picture Kevin VanDam). I have never had a system where I ran the stock phasing on all drivers. You may have an anomaly that could easily be resolved by switching the phase on one of your mids.

That being said, I also think your path is fine. If you are truly wanting more in the midrange a dedicated 3" driver will be "enough" although if you really want to wang you may have to have a second setting on your eq to roll it off higher in the passband to allow it to play louder. Of course you can compensate by rolling the midbass up a bit, but if you are going to really optimize the system for output mostly it would require a midbass than can extend a bit more than some.

Glad you see the madness in my questioning...and the reason that the T&C's are so specific. It is WAY easier to help someone when they really let you know what they have and what they want to do.

That being said, try switching the phase on a midrange and let us know what happens. In reality I would try every combination of phase with the front comps and see what sounds best. Before doing it I'd flatten any eq you have applied and start flat. Re-adjust after testing phase and report back

SWEET!!! I will try the phasing and see if that pleases the ears, It will be a few days before I have the stereo working and then I will report back.

[REVpuggie 23]

I agree with BASSmaster (everytime I see that handle this week in particular I picture Kevin VanDam).

I googled the guy , didn't have a clue ! I can asure you my fishing skills are non-existant ,tried it a few times when i was younger (I'm not that old) always came home emptyhanded

Edited February 23, 2010 by BASSmaster

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

I agree with BASSmaster (everytime I see that handle this week in particular I picture Kevin VanDam).

I googled the guy , didn't have a clue ! I can asure you my fishing skills are non-existant ,tried it a few times when i was younger (I'm not that old) always came home emptyhanded

Makes me think Big-Ass MASTER, no pun intended, I like healthy women too.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

I am finally going to have the front speaker's playing again and probably a few day's without a sub for testing. My question is when testing different phasing combination's on the front comp's to eleminate the suck hole, Do I want the T/A on or off?

Edited March 6, 2010 by j-roadtatts

[Adrian_D 520]

T/A off.

Using a cd you are very familiar with or you know how should sound will help a lot.

[ryan s 12]

Midbass speakers really don't need to be on axis if they're played in the traditional "midbass" frequencies of 63~300Hz. Think about the sub frequencies and how they're loud all over the place. I assume you know this already...I'm just trying to ass-ume that you put your mids in pods so they're louder, being on axis?

I know people don't care too much about a pile of parts...but I just got my Usher 8945P mids in today, and I'm going to pair them with the TB W3-1364SA's (aka Bamboos) on the dash, tweeterless, just like you show in the pics...just a tad bit off axis.

Fitting the Ushers in the doors is going to be difficult. I had a sadistic laugh when I opened the Usher's box...then curled into the fetal position in my mind just looking at them

Plan:

-Mids in the doors, 63-2000Hz (maybe 2500...no more)

-Midrange on the dash, 2000-2500Hz and up

The exact numbers will vary depending on phase issues or EQ issues. I'll bump or dip XO points depending on if the EQ can adjust a given frequency the way I want it to, since the headunit limits me to "global" changes and not L-R.

I WAS going to cross the TBs low, around 500Hz so I could low pass the mids around that area too, but decided I didn't want a crossover point in the vocal range...and hoping a higher high pass will let the 3"ers play cleaner into the 12.5Khz+ range where my EQ ends.

You'll probably have yours set up before me Just throwing in a couple cents...

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

When I stared this topic, I had been tossing around a ton of different Idea's for my front set up, just to get the ball rolling. I already have some 6x9 mid's is why I started the topic with just adding 6x9 midbass, because when it come's to output there's no replacement for displacement. Well As soon as I opened my mouth, I started anwsering my own question's.(as usaul, I am a young bull)

I have took note's of EVERY piece of info provided in this topic, and spent ALOT of time reading about how speaker's interact with each other and themself's. I am as sharp as a tack when it come's to math, and have SOLID understanding of the x-over point's, order's, frequency's and octave's involved. I on the OTHER hand am TERRIBLE with word's and terminology SO please bear with me. As far as tuning, I am only held back by my lack of experience and knowledge, not lack the mathematic skill's. As far as install I am only limited by my own desire's. (and money )

This will be my first set-up with No back speaker's, so I am sure it will take a minute for my ear's to adjust. But I am REALLY EXCITED because I think ALOT of my problem with the destructive destortion was the rear's.

I am also excited to use the H100 to it's full potential and think ALOT of what I am Lacking could be accomplished by going active. This will be my first active set up So I do think K.I.S.S. is important, Also I Know I will be happier with the point source set-up.

With all that being said, I Will play around with the type-r's some more to get use to the front only sound, but will ultimatly probably be installing some 3 or 4 inch fullrange's on the dash and an 8" mid-bass in the door. As far as output, 3" fullrange > 1" tweeter and 8" mid-bass > 6.5 woofer, SO I think i should be happy by the "no replacement for displacement" rule.

I like to listen with the response curve as flat as possible other than my sub peaking the VERY lowest note's. I starting to realize I like the more natural sounding speaker material's and what they bring to the table. As far as fullrange Speaker choice's I am leaning torward's the TB w3-1318SA, or the w3-1364S. I think the lower Qts of the 1318S will be better in my app.? but am not sure? As far as a Midbass choice's I haven't even began to study what make's a good mid-bass for MY app.? As you can see I am taking my time as to understand everything I am doing.

Thank's for the input and knowledge, I take this matter VERY seriously.

[ryan s 12]

At first, you'll notice there's a little less midbass and less volume without the rear speakers. After about a day, you won't miss them one bit with a good setup in front I've been without rear speakers for a little over 4 years, and the only way I'd go back is if I did a bunch of 2" or 3" mids in the rear deck (that's another topic altogether ).

If you're willing to fit an 8 in the door and are using a 3" midrange...do it! I was looking at a pair of Morel CW8s which are very shallow but a bit too wide. Removing about 3/4" of metal around the stock mounting hole in the door would allow them to fit with a 1/2-3/4" spacer...clearing the door panel.

The lower Qts is good for a smaller enclosure. The W3s like about .02 cubic feet. My "bowls" they're going into measure only ~.014, but I'm hoping PolyFill plus EQ will level them out. They'll need all the power handling they can get...they don't make the model of amp I'm using any smaller so 100 x 2 at 4 Ohms will have to do