Vented or backseats?

[Dammed 12]

thx guys.

now, the last question: Why is a 28hz tuning a bad idea?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Dammed

[porkchop 304]

thx guys.

now, the least question: Why is a 28hz tuning a bad idea?

for my personal experiance, i tuned to 35 hz. the first big box i built. it seems to lack something on the real low notes.

i thought it meant that i needed to tune it alot lower.

i have heard other set ups, also tuned to 35hz. that drop the lows alot nicer.

i beleive it is a combo of my design and a loading issue.

when i say the lows, me personally, i mean like 22-25hz. everything begins to vibrate and flex....

but you kinda got to figure out what your music plays at, and for loud, well 20 hz. and loud, you will not achieve too well.... .02

i mean, like i think loud is 145 db. plus, when someone says loud, i don't think your current gear will do 20hz. at 145db...... .02

if you like rap, i do, then loud is mid 30's to mid 40's.... and around 145 db.'s plus.....

now, if this is what you are after, loose that seat.... go big, and port the enclosure.... you could definetly enjoy the two 18"s in a sealed box.....

but imo, the ported box will be able to get alot louder. them Q's will handle the low notes with ease, keep a eye on the gain though.

28hz. tunning seems a lttle low to me, but i am a noob on it still.

i want to tune my current box lower by adding a external port extension, when i do, it will drop it to 27hz.

so i will be alot lower, i will let you know how that does for me in a few weeks.

last thing, shouldn't fuck with five, he is on his game, just quite often in a cocky manner.

the dude means well, i have had fall outs with him too, but in his defense, he still takes time to help me when i ask.

i think sometimes, well alot of times, he knows the out come and answer, just that he encourages one to look further for the info....... in his own way.

i hate saying that the prick is right, but i find myself saying it quite often, lol

no offense meant ^ just saying my .02

chop

[///M5 2,833]

I have read it, and yes I have agreed to it. And yes I was misusing your definition of the terms. Which I find retarded, but yeah, not my forum. Everywhere else in the world SQ stand for Sound quality and SPL for sound pressure level, but apparently not here.

Nope, exactly how it is here. Earlier you completely mis-represented that and later in the same post I quoted above you did again.

Either you want it loud or you want it flat (yes flat is subjective or at least tuned to your ears) but if you choose either term that is the case. There is NO gray with either.

Like I said earlier, still curious why I shouldn't use a tuning of 28hz?

Like I said earlier, answer my question and yours will be obvious.

And indeed, chop nailed one thing. If you want to be spoon fed it isn't going to happen, if you refuse to think I will let you fail. Probably even laugh. Have to have some amusement as all the idiotic shit that gets posted somewhere, somehow this has to be relaxing. Try a little harder, follow the rules a little better and then you wouldn't be having this fall out and instead would know exactly what to do. instead if you choose to fail, go for it...no one here is going to stop you.

[kirill007 52]

Should make a vented/ported box, because you don't have enough room to make a good one.

Certainly if u want it tuned to 28hz, the port would be waay too big, and the sub will not sound good.

Better to do a good sealed box for both 18's, if u went with 15's you maybe could fit both ported, but not 2 18's.

Jeez, he's got 25 cubes if he tosses the back seats, how much room do you need?

M5, why not 28Hz? I understand that with an SQ oriented setup, the front stage is way more important, but why not that tuning if it is not an SQ only setup?

I thought he said he didn't wanted to loose the backseats.

[Dammed 12]

M5, the time I care if a forum person laughs at something I wrote/did is the day hell freezes over.

I think for myself, but since there are many aspects to tuning it's kinda hard to know what specific thing you're thinking about that will give me some problems. I understand the point to not spoon feed people. Goes under the concept of teaching someone to fish rather then giving them a fish. But can you at least narrow down the field. Should I be looking at the SPL curves in WinISD, cabin pressure, driver properties, car peak frequency, the list goes on.

If you're thinking that I will not get loud at 28hz, then that's no problem, I'm not looking for loudness, it would be nice, but a good sounding system is after all my first priority. And as I see it, if I tune it even lower at 20-25hz I get a much flatter curve in WinISD, meaning that the subs will not peak and that will be giving me a better music experience. If I have understood this correctly.

But if you don't want to help me out, don't get all warm and fuzzy inside, there are people out there that will.

[///M5 2,833]

I suggest you don't use WinISD if you don't understand what it tells you. 28Hz won't fit your goals.

[Chrispy 0]

I say go sealed in the trunk. Take it slow, going from a single sealed 12 to a ported 2x18 wall is a big jump. 18s sealed is still a big jump.

Especially if you don't have any experience building a setup bigger than a single 12.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Chrispy

[Don Ganso 13]

I suggest you don't use WinISD if you don't understand what it tells you. 28Hz won't fit your goals.

^^^The man said it; he's still trying to help you achieve your goals, so I'd pay attention; he knows WTF he's talkin' bout.

[Notorious97200 339]

You're in really good hands !!!

28Hz seems loooow. At 32 you will still have so much lows!!!! and you won't miss anything.

Listen to M5, even if it's not easy for you!!!!!!

BTW : if you build it yourself, try a sealed box in your trunk first.

If you don't like it(impossible ) you will build your ported wall.

2 huge Q's in a big ported wall would be a giant step from your actual setup.

Good luck for your build.

Post pics when you can

[Dammed 12]

I will be posting a build thread when I get started, but like I said I will wait until the temperatures rises a bit since I don't have at the moment any place to work inside. I have to deaden my car first as well.

I understand WinISD, I was just looking for some confirmation. But I got that from a different forum.

He maybe full of knowledge, but that fact is useless for me if he doesn't share his knowledge. I'm here to take advices and to learn to make my own choices. Simply stating it isn't for me becuase he says so is not good enough. I stopped taking advices like that after I turned 10 years old. Because in the long run, it doesn't help me one bit.

A ported two 18" wall is a big step from one sealed 12", and who knows I'll maybe take water over my head, but I like challenges and I'm good with tools and wood. And I'm in no hurry, I have driven my car without a car stereo for over 6 months, and I can survive at least 6 more months.

I will be building a variable slot port, so I can tune from 20hz to 40hz in 2,5hz intervals. I only have to remove one subwoofer to change the tuning. So If I find out I have tuned to low, I'll just remove a section and get a higher tuning.

For now it seems like it will be a 28ft3 enclosure with a flared 10" x 20" port, length will vary depending on the tuning. And before anyone starts to rant about the port, it's more then big enough. The air speed through is low enough with any tuning from 20 to 40hz. So it will not make port noise with a regular port, since I'll be making a flared one I'll should 100% safe from port noise.

The Q's will be in a very big enclosure, but they like big enclosures. The Xmax is within limits so it should not be a problem. The enclosure might very well change down to 20-22ft3, I have to figure out the final design, but it will be a big enclosure.

[///M5 2,833]

Ask a complete questions get a complete answer, and the opposite is true as well. The other thing you should have stopped when you were 10 is copping an attitude when interfacing with someone who is trying to help you.

[Dammed 12]

How is a statement like: "Whatever you do, don't put them in a ported box tuned to 28Hz that won't help you at all... " helpful when I don't know why you say it.

I even asked you several times to explain why you think so, and you have answered 3 times without doing so.

The first time you replied back I got the question thrown back at me.

The 2.nd time you said you will not spoon feed be the answers. Hmm, any answer would be good. Not a spoon fed one.

The 3.rd time you almost repeated the statement by saying: "28Hz won't fit your goals"

The 4.th time you said I have a bad attitude. (If I understood you correctly)

One or two posts in this thread from me was a bit fired up, but the rest of time I try to keep my replies as neutral as possible. And I don't have a bad attitude towards people trying to help me. I might be having a bad attitude towards you, but do you really find that so strange given your first statement and then your replies after I ask you to explain your first statement?

Edited February 4, 2010 by Dammed

[jonbearsmt 919]

every one is getting all pissy im not gonna read three pages of it... so im just gonna ask my questions..

why the huge jump from 1 sealed 12 to 2 18 inch subs.??? you can reach the out put your looking for with way less.. if done right...

20 odd Hertz my lord.. unless your makin your own music or listing to classical not sure you wanna go that way.. 33~35 seems to work well on most music rap being the sweet spot if thats what your into.

thats just IMO.... but hey who the fuck do i think i am!?

[///M5 2,833]

I give up. You haven't bothered to EVER answer any of my questions so I could help and want me too? Oh well, your loss. I'm done with your thread. Be damned.

[Dammed 12]

Man you must be on drugs or something, the only question you ever asked me in this thread was why I think 28hz is logical in a car. And I replied to it, saying that Fi recommended it, and I have stated that I have no experience with vented enclosures. So I can't 't give you any other explanation.

My loss? Please, you may have some good knowledge about car stereo but to believe that someone is lost/damned without your almighty guidance that's just sad. And like a taxy cab driver said in a old classic, fuck you to my friend.

bigjon, I have allways wanted one 18" subwoofer, pretty much cause it's rare and I have allways wanted a big wubwoofer, I used a 12" in sealed enclosure cause I didn't have enough money to buy something better. As A college student, money is a bit short.

I'm going to make a variable slot port, so I can make my box tuned from 20hz til 40hz with a 2,5hz variable, so who knows, I'll maybe end up with a 35hz tuning, or maybe even a 25hz tuning. The reasen for 20 odd hz as you put it, is that if you tune the enclosure very low, the Q's will be having a much more flat output. Here you can see the difference between 20 and 40hz:

20hz:

40hz:

I get a much louder setup with a 40hz tuning, but I believe that with a 3200W rms amplifer and two 18" in a small celica will be more then enough loud for myself. But for DB contests I'll probably tune the box to 40hz and see how loud I could play.

Dude, don't believe what M5 is writing, if you looked back, I thanked all the replies I got, except M5's becuase he's trying to do a some Freud shit. So yes I care what other people think, and I consider every advice I get.

[1200 bandit 2]

My two cents say go with the back seat out and the BIG port enclosure. You can play with the tuning of the enclosure to get it where it is loud but still clean. You also can use gain or/bass control to make it more boomy when you like. Good luck. P.S. your question was very easy for me to understand.

[eggyhustles 33]

If u want it louder, tuning lower should be the last thing you do.

try 33-35

[SNIPER-92 0]

After spending 20+mins reading this whole thread, i say that you should go for the low tuned wall, i have always wanted to do the same thing. When i get the money, im gonna go for 2 21" wardens on 2 sundown saz-4500d's, gonna wall it off and tune it low, but maybe a variable tuning port. would save alot of time and hassle if i don't like the low tuning. But yeah, make sure you make a build thread, ill be all over that one lol. And aside from me, i think you will be most happy with the low tuned wall cause fi q's are all over the low notes, and it seems like it will fit your goals the best.

[CrownVic 15]

Why not just sell 1 sub then make the proper ported box for 1 18, and keep the back seats?

[Dammed 12]

becuase that's no fun. But on a serious note, the rear seats never gets used. If my friends want to go somewhere we allways take a friends Audi A6, so my rear seats have maybe been used 3 times the previous year.

There will be a build thread, I have purchased four boards of 1" thick MDF, and I have deadened the car, the build will probably start during the next week.

And yes it will be a variable port going from 20-40hz.

[Randal Johnson 544]

You might try this ... Isoberic the 18s. one in front of the other facing each other. reverse polarity the 2nd sub. you will see the back of one sub but some people like that. Maybe just a little larger than a single 18 box but will take ALOT of power to push. Tune the box to 32 htz, That thing shood look cool as hell, sound great, and rip your head off at the same time. Then again, Just a suggestion sir to keep both subs and a smaller box. Please take great detail in planning and building the box. It WILL be a task to make it sound right.

[kirill007 52]

I'm going to make a variable slot port, so I can make my box tuned from 20hz til 40hz with a 2,5hz variable, so who knows, I'll maybe end up with a 35hz tuning, or maybe even a 25hz tuning. The reasen for 20 odd hz as you put it, is that if you tune the enclosure very low, the Q's will be having a much more flat output. Here you can see the difference between 20 and 40hz:

20hz:

(deleted the pics, because the post would be to big.)

Please don't use those graphs anymore if you are designing a subwoofer for a car or in-house.

Because Winisd gives the graphs but it doesn't accounts for room/car acoustics and the gains you get at certain freqeuncies.(that's probably why M5 said you cannot read those graphs.)

I suggest you don't use WinISD if you don't understand what it tells you. 28Hz won't fit your goals.

He is trying to help you by saying that 28 will not fit you're goals if you wanted LOUD and low. (tuning a 32hz would be perfect for you i think)

[Dammed 12]

Cablguy184: I did think about isobaric, but since I have enough room for a standard vented enclosure I went with that. This would be my second enclosure build, and I don't want to take more water over my head then I already have. But thanks for the tip.

kirill007: If he wanted to help me he would explained it like you did, it would have taken a second more. I don't take advices without a explanation to why one should follow the advice.

How do you plan ahead on what port to make? I mean how do you add the gains from the car? And wouldn't the gains and what frequencies the gains are at vary from car to car?

Edited April 19, 2010 by Dammed

[KU40 173]

There's nothing wrong with using the winISD graphs. They give you a good representation of how one box will make the sub respond relative to another. You just can't use them for absolute numbers for what you'll see once you put it in an environment. Like if winISD says that the -3db point on box A is 25 hz and on box B is 20 hz, you can rest assured that box B can play lower than box A. The only thing you can't do is say "winISD SPL graph says this will hit 135 db, so it will," or that the frequency response graph is right on. Cabin gain and room acoustics will shift the response. However, if there is a big hump in frequency response on the graph just above tuning, it's relatively certain that the box will exaggerate frequencies right above tuning.

[///M5 2,833]

kirill007: If he wanted to help me he would explained it like you did, it would have taken a second more. I don't take advices without a explanation to why one should follow the advice.

And more importantly had you spent a second more on your request you'd have gotten a more thorough answer. Spend some time thinking about how your question will help not only you but others reading your thread and it will become much easier to get the help you seek.