Help with speaker selection for a 3-way setup.

[Adrian_D 520]

Hey guys.

I'm trying to piece together a 3-way active front stage in a friend's car and I need some help in selecting speakers for this application.

The car is an '06 VW Passat if that is of help more than pictures of the A-pillars. Planned locations are A-pillars for midranges and tweeters and doors for midbass. Processing is going to be done by a car pc, all software, no limitations there. Power is going to be plenty, 100w@4 ohms for each midrange and each tweeter and 200w@8ohms for midbass. Odds are that the actual install is going to be done by me so atleast the doors will get a good treatment.

The main goal for the install is to build a very good sounding front stage with high output ability. Budget will be around $600 for speakers only.

Some pics of the A-pillars and a 4inch midrange.

So far I've narrowed down 3 midbasses, 8's do fit, mounting depth for these isn't a problem :

Creative Sound - Product Details

Peerless SLS 830667, 8" Paper Cone Woofer from Madisound

Hi-Vi D8.8+ 9" Woofer NLA from Madisound

A 10 is too much for car doors over here so it's out of the question.

For midrange I think a 4 inch would be better considering that they should provide highish output. But a 3 inch would make things easier on the installation part. Would preffer something to play as much of the spectrum as possible.

One option I was pondering because of the shallow mounting depth and grill.

Parts-Express.com:

[sadistic 13]

Here are some speaker I have been looking at have not had a chance to hear them yet so keep that in mind. mybe you can see what you can find over there in these brands and see what they sound like. as you can see i prefer silk tweets. but you may not.

Mid bass 4 inch

Parts-Express.com:

[ABXX49 20]

Note to all readers: This is how you make a topic. THIS will get you help.

I don't have much experience with driver selection, but I did go through it with Sean last year. (My build will start this spring) I decided to go with a Peerless SLS 8" for the midbass.

Have you thought about using a full range speaker for your midrange?

Are large format tweeters out of the question?

[Adrian_D 520]

I have thought about using a full-range. Haven't quit the idea but since processing and power is available why not go 3-way ? Although I'd preffer to buy a full-range, in case I can't fit the tweeter.

Large format is pretty much out of the question since the pillar's aren't big enough to fit both midrange and tweeter. Kick and dash are out of the question for midrange locations.

[sadistic 13]

I have thought about using a full-range. Haven't quit the idea but since processing and power is available why not go 3-way ? Although I'd preffer to buy a full-range, in case I can't fit the tweeter.

Large format is pretty much out of the question since the pillar's aren't big enough to fit both midrange and tweeter. Kick and dash are out of the question for midrange locations.

it has side curtin air bags in the v-dub so there not much room for any thing let alone tweets right ???

[Duran 387]

I have thought about using a full-range. Haven't quit the idea but since processing and power is available why not go 3-way ? Although I'd preffer to buy a full-range, in case I can't fit the tweeter.

Large format is pretty much out of the question since the pillar's aren't big enough to fit both midrange and tweeter. Kick and dash are out of the question for midrange locations.

it has side curtin air bags in the v-dub so there not much room for any thing let alone tweets right ???

I believe the side curtain airbags aren't in the A-pillars.

[Impious 1,476]

I have a pair of Trio8's up in my closet.....haven't had a chance to play with them yet, but most people state they sound extremely similar with the SLS8's but with better high frequency extension. So which midbass to go with IMO depends on how high you need them to play. If you were able to cut them off around 250hz or so, the SLS8's would be cheaper. If you need them to extend higher, probably would be best to look at the Trio8's. The SB Acoustic 8's had also caught my eye, all of their drivers seem to measure pretty good. Vifa's new NE225W also looks intriguing, but I don't believe they've hit the streets yet

For midrange, there's so many options it's hard to know where to even begin. It really depends on what range you want them to cover, IMO. Again the SB Acoustics 4" looks intriguing as their drivers all seem well engineered. Scanspeak just recently came out with the Discovery line which includes an affordably priced 4" midrange. Ofcourse the old standby's in smaller formats like the Vifa TG9. Zaph gave a glowing review of the Fountek FR88-EX.

Have fun taming those reflections

[///M5 2,833]

All of your midbass options are intriguing. Inconveniently I haven't held the HiVi or CSS in my hands before. Installation will make the biggest difference unless you need it to extend higher than the driver can.

The midrange is really what I'd focus my choices on, you state you can't do a large format tweet but with a decent 3 or 4" mid it wouldn't be necessary anyways. I'd seriously focus on narrowing that down and while I really like your midbass choices I don't like your midrange choice so far. I'd spend some time balancing the differences based on Zaph's reviews as they are about the most complete for that range of driver. I'd narrow it down and then buy a couple and listen to decide. The extra money you spend doing this you can easily save on the tweeter

[lithium 358]

i think it goes without saying that the sls 8 is a great woofer, haven't heard the of the other 2 you mentioned tho.

here's an idea for testing the midrange (or potentially a fullrange if you decide to drop the tweeter). head to a plumbing store and get some pvc endcaps. use a threaded rod or velco to secure it to your dash for testing.

right now my cheapo 10 dollar 3" peerless fullranges are covering the top end just fine. imo a tweeter would only make things more difficult to tune and install.

[blue fury 3]

I'd spend some time balancing the differences based on Zaph's reviews as they are about the most complete for that range of driver.

x2. This leads me to my suggestion for a mid:

Tang band 1337 This was given a great review on the site. I have the w4-1720 and like it in the 300-2000hz range.

I haven't had experience with the midbass drivers you listed, but the one I list is the Hertz High energy 8". I love that one. I've heard it in different cars and it sounds great.

[///M5 2,833]

Tang band 1337 This was given a great review on the site. I have the w4-1720 and like it in the 300-2000hz range.

That's a great mid.

The Scan 12m is my favorite 4", but it breaks the bank. In the 3's I'd add the Fountek FR88 & Fostex FF85k.

[Adrian_D 520]

I have a pair of Trio8's up in my closet.....haven't had a chance to play with them yet, but most people state they sound extremely similar with the SLS8's but with better high frequency extension. So which midbass to go with IMO depends on how high you need them to play. If you were able to cut them off around 250hz or so, the SLS8's would be cheaper. If you need them to extend higher, probably would be best to look at the Trio8's. The SB Acoustic 8's had also caught my eye, all of their drivers seem to measure pretty good. Vifa's new NE225W also looks intriguing, but I don't believe they've hit the streets yet

For midrange, there's so many options it's hard to know where to even begin. It really depends on what range you want them to cover, IMO. Again the SB Acoustics 4" looks intriguing as their drivers all seem well engineered. Scanspeak just recently came out with the Discovery line which includes an affordably priced 4" midrange. Ofcourse the old standby's in smaller formats like the Vifa TG9. Zaph gave a glowing review of the Fountek FR88-EX.

Have fun taming those reflections

I suspected the Trio would extend better than the SLS, so deciding between them is going to come down to how low the midranges will be able to play in the install. To be honest the Discovery series are new to me, the 4" mids definately look interesting, along with the SB Acoustics mids.

I'd probably choose the Trio to make things easier in case I need it to extend higher but one thing I'm concerned about is the sloghtly lower sensitivity compared to the SLS. 84db vs 87db @ 1 watt.

All of your midbass options are intriguing. Inconveniently I haven't held the HiVi or CSS in my hands before. Installation will make the biggest difference unless you need it to extend higher than the driver can.

The midrange is really what I'd focus my choices on, you state you can't do a large format tweet but with a decent 3 or 4" mid it wouldn't be necessary anyways. I'd seriously focus on narrowing that down and while I really like your midbass choices I don't like your midrange choice so far. I'd spend some time balancing the differences based on Zaph's reviews as they are about the most complete for that range of driver. I'd narrow it down and then buy a couple and listen to decide. The extra money you spend doing this you can easily save on the tweeter

The midrange was a stab in the dark to be honest. You make a good point with buying a couple midranges and test

Tang band 1337 This was given a great review on the site. I have the w4-1720 and like it in the 300-2000hz range.

That's a great mid.

The Scan 12m is my favorite 4", but it breaks the bank. In the 3's I'd add the Fountek FR88 & Fostex FF85k.

If only the 12m would fit the budget, it's a no-brainer to me after hearing them

Narrowing down the midranges...

for 3's, the Fountek is probably the choice after reading zaph's review. My friend wants to be different so as much as I like the FF85k it's not on the option list.

Also something I read that sounds good, the bamboo cone Tangband w3 :

Tang Band W3-1364SA

for 4's...

Tang band 1337

Scan Discovery 4"

Thank you for the help so far guys

[///M5 2,833]

I am also interested in hearing the Discovery, but it will be a couple months before I drive by Madisound again.

[lithium 358]

I have a pair of Trio8's up in my closet.....haven't had a chance to play with them yet, but most people state they sound extremely similar with the SLS8's but with better high frequency extension. So which midbass to go with IMO depends on how high you need them to play. If you were able to cut them off around 250hz or so, the SLS8's would be cheaper. If you need them to extend higher, probably would be best to look at the Trio8's. The SB Acoustic 8's had also caught my eye, all of their drivers seem to measure pretty good. Vifa's new NE225W also looks intriguing, but I don't believe they've hit the streets yet

For midrange, there's so many options it's hard to know where to even begin. It really depends on what range you want them to cover, IMO. Again the SB Acoustics 4" looks intriguing as their drivers all seem well engineered. Scanspeak just recently came out with the Discovery line which includes an affordably priced 4" midrange. Ofcourse the old standby's in smaller formats like the Vifa TG9. Zaph gave a glowing review of the Fountek FR88-EX.

Have fun taming those reflections

I suspected the Trio would extend better than the SLS, so deciding between them is going to come down to how low the midranges will be able to play in the install. To be honest the Discovery series are new to me, the 4" mids definately look interesting, along with the SB Acoustics mids.

I'd probably choose the Trio to make things easier in case I need it to extend higher but one thing I'm concerned about is the sloghtly lower sensitivity compared to the SLS. 84db vs 87db @ 1 watt.

All of your midbass options are intriguing. Inconveniently I haven't held the HiVi or CSS in my hands before. Installation will make the biggest difference unless you need it to extend higher than the driver can.

The midrange is really what I'd focus my choices on, you state you can't do a large format tweet but with a decent 3 or 4" mid it wouldn't be necessary anyways. I'd seriously focus on narrowing that down and while I really like your midbass choices I don't like your midrange choice so far. I'd spend some time balancing the differences based on Zaph's reviews as they are about the most complete for that range of driver. I'd narrow it down and then buy a couple and listen to decide. The extra money you spend doing this you can easily save on the tweeter

The midrange was a stab in the dark to be honest. You make a good point with buying a couple midranges and test

Tang band 1337 This was given a great review on the site. I have the w4-1720 and like it in the 300-2000hz range.

That's a great mid.

The Scan 12m is my favorite 4", but it breaks the bank. In the 3's I'd add the Fountek FR88 & Fostex FF85k.

If only the 12m would fit the budget, it's a no-brainer to me after hearing them

Narrowing down the midranges...

for 3's, the Fountek is probably the choice after reading zaph's review. My friend wants to be different so as much as I like the FF85k it's not on the option list.

Also something I read that sounds good, the bamboo cone Tangband w3 :

Tang Band W3-1364SA

for 4's...

Tang band 1337

Scan Discovery 4"

Thank you for the help so far guys

i think im going to bumb up to the tang w3's this summer (moving the peerless inside for computer speakers). i've read afew comparisons to the ff85k and the consensus was that the ff85k got a little harsh or tinny (not sure what the correct word is for metal sounding...) while the w3 is more laid back.

[deathcloud 6]

This is why I hate this forum... cuz now i want to try all these suggested speakers haha. I want to do that kind of set up but I was thinking a SLS8 in my door for midbass, focals for midrange, and i really like seas alum tweeter. But this is all way to advanced.

This just gives me hope and future ideas for my car to make it sound great.

Anyways I can't wait to see your build or your friends build or whatever. A car pc sounds crazy. Good luck

[///M5 2,833]

i think im going to bumb up to the tang w3's this summer (moving the peerless inside for computer speakers). i've read afew comparisons to the ff85k and the consensus was that the ff85k got a little harsh or tinny (not sure what the correct word is for metal sounding...) while the w3 is more laid back.

Hmm, not my impression at all. Of course on axis is different than off, I'd bet someone had them installed a bit funny.

[///M5 2,833]

This is why I hate this forum... cuz now i want to try all these suggested speakers haha. I want to do that kind of set up but I was thinking a SLS8 in my door for midbass, focals for midrange, and i really like seas alum tweeter. But this is all way to advanced.

Textile > alum IMO. I'd also shy away from the Focal...depending on the model.

[Adrian_D 520]

i think im going to bumb up to the tang w3's this summer (moving the peerless inside for computer speakers). i've read afew comparisons to the ff85k and the consensus was that the ff85k got a little harsh or tinny (not sure what the correct word is for metal sounding...) while the w3 is more laid back.

Hmm, not my impression at all. Of course on axis is different than off, I'd bet someone had them installed a bit funny.

x2. I have had the on-axis in the house too, comparing to the Peerless HDS's. Did not seem metallic to my ears.

This is why I hate this forum... cuz now i want to try all these suggested speakers haha. I want to do that kind of set up but I was thinking a SLS8 in my door for midbass, focals for midrange, and i really like seas alum tweeter. But this is all way to advanced.

This just gives me hope and future ideas for my car to make it sound great.

Anyways I can't wait to see your build or your friends build or whatever. A car pc sounds crazy. Good luck

I hate drooling over speakers too because now I want to try out some more midranges. Or another midbass.

Have not heard focal midranges. I know some home audio nuts who swear by the utopia midrange. But is it worth the price ?

It's going to move slow unfortunately. Apart from the power wire, nothing is installed in the car.

Car pc sounded crazy at first...but working out the costs for similar processing and features, car audio based options are expensive. Not to mention costs in case of component failures.

[Notorious97200 339]

Some Focal mids are wonderful! (I am not working for Focal, they don't need me !!!)

But I have heard much better tweeters than the Focal.

I run a set of 165KP, and I've heared some different other Focal sets, but I never heard all these sls, fountek,...only reviews in diyma.com

It depends on your personnal taste, and your budget too, for sure.

[///M5 2,833]

Have not heard focal midranges. I know some home audio nuts who swear by the utopia midrange. But is it worth the price ?

That would be the only Focal, but definitely not worth the price.

I'd be wary of the reviews at DIYMA since Ant took over, all eff'd now. However, if you like the 165's you'd LOVE anything discussed in this thread so far.

[Adrian_D 520]

So far we've made a decision, going to go for the CSS Trio 8, it would be handy to have it extend higher than the sls 8.

Looking on creativesound I thought about getting the FR125 from there, it would simplify the shipping.

Thoughts on using the FR125 as a midrage ? Apart from the large mounting depth ?

[///M5 2,833]

I haven't heard the FR125, but it looks very suitable for an IB or sealed setup. My guess is that it would work well, in particular if you could get it on axis. A tweet to fill the real high end would probably help with it though.

You could ask Neil/DevilDriver as I know he owns a pair, not sure if he'll check his PM's but its worth a shot.

[rickydoc 0]

Hello from Finland!

How is this project doing? Didn't find any progress elsewhere. Would be nice to see how you manage to fit those eights in the Passat doors. Not least because of i'm facing the same task next month.. '07 Passat with SLS 8 + HAT L4 powered by pair of Audison VRx 4.300.

Regards,

Rickydoc