Fi BTL's power upgrade requirements?

[tehboss 0]

Hi, I am driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee (1993) and my current set up is a Memphis MOJO on an Alpine PDX 1.1000. As far as wiring, i have 4 AWG power wire for the amp (Knukonceptz Kolossus Fleks Kable), and I have put in a 0 AWG wire (also Knu) for the battery to chassis ground. I was going to complete the big 3, but was told by a mechanic that the other two were not necessary for my setup (stock 90 amp alt currently.) I receive decent voltage drops (almost massive at idle if i'm not careful.) About 3 weeks a go, my voltage dropped to the point that my amp went into clipping (or at least this is what I think caused it. Gain is set right on or a little below half). Long story short, the MOJO's surround cracked and is now out of commission. I recently ordered a 12" FI BTL (Fully loaded) to take the MOJO's place, but I have some questions.

1. As for my current enclosure, it is 3.65 Cubes net at 34-35 hertz. Will i need to place some wood or something inside to reduce it to around 3, or will it be okay in the large box.

2. As far as power upgrades, i will soon add a Kinetic battery (prob 1400) in the rear to handle the amp. Will I need to finish the big 3? Does the wire between the batteries need to be fused and should i upgrade it to 0 AWG also?

3. I plan on upgrading to a sundown amp before too long. I will purchase a larger kinetik battery(How big?) and put the 1400 up front. By then i will have all 0 AWG wiring. I was wondering if the SAZ-3500D will sound good on 2 BTL subs (I know its underpowered, but I'm on a budget {being 16 and working minimum wage with a Jeep that gets 12 miles to the gallon doesn't help much} ,and don't feel like making the same mistake twice.)

4. Where can i find a decent box plan for 2 12" BTL sub woofers at around 32-33 hertz? (I heard that its best to have them up firing with port toward rear.) I built the last box by myself (Took me around 8 hrs, but it was a first time build) out of 3/4" MDF with double baffle front. The only complication i had out of it is that i cut my hole just a little to large (cut around 11.5 and should have been closer to 11.) I really don't want to build a new box until I decide to order another BTL, so I think that i will try and make this work by using the same holes as the MOJO used.

Thanks to all that help. Sorry for the extreme multitude of questions, but i am still learning a lot about the car audio installation and tuning process. Any reply is appreciated!

--Andrew--

[thebiggmann12 14]

1. that box is awefully big, beings that fi recommends 2.5 cubes max. but u could probably use it and just watch ur gains. but only use it as a temporary box.

2. def finish the big three, and most people will tell u to use a fuse between each battery just to be on the safe side. and definately run 0 gauge for ur amp power and ground.

3. i have no experience with btls or sundown amps but have heard nothing but good things, and im guessing that even though u will be underpowering the subs by about 250 watts a peice, and the amps are highly underrated, and u dont need a specific amount of power to make something sound good. its still gonna be ungodly loud, in the right enclosure and with a good voltage.

4. try using winisd or the re enclosure calculator, or talk to shizzon on here.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

First off complete the "Big 3". Your voltage will thank you!

2nd I would look at getting someone to set your gains with an oscilloscope. That will help prevent any clipping as long as your smart with your HU settings.

The 1400 would be a good start for a battery up front, but you will want to add a HO alt and more batteries for a Sundown SAZ-3500D.

If you can provide the dimensions of your exisiting box with port width and length someone will be able to tell you exactly how much space you have along with tuning.

[patented17 21]

1. Build new box

2. Get an H.O alternator, why add more batteries if, apparently your alt. already has a hard time keeping up.

3. Again, once you get the H.O alt, then get the batteries, do the full Big 3.

4. Plenty of box builders on here.

[tehboss 0]

okay, Ive did some calling around and will probably upgrade my alternator to the largest one on a factory vehicle (probably off a Dodge ram 5.9.) My next upgrade after that will be the Kinetik battery. So will I need to upgrade to 0 AWG right away on the battery run or will a 4 AWG run be enough until I can order the new? Also, can i just ground my battery in the back to the chassis or should i run another run of wire? Im on a strict budget so i'm trying to take this slow and steady. Only the essentials first.

[jcarter1885 995]

1.That current box will do fine and if you want to reduce the volume inside then add more wood inside the box but you dont have too. Since you will only be throwing around 1000rms at the sub, that box will be ok.

2. Your voltage will thank you if you complete the rest of the Big 3, you dont have to do the positive run from alternator to battery until you upgrade alternators but it would help. I would at least do the other wire(engine block/alternators bolt casing to cars frame) now in 1/0 gauge.

3. Yes a bigger battery will help with the Sundown SAZ-3500D but the size you need will depend on other equipment in the car, electrical upgrades and so forth. But yes you would need a bigger battery or two when it all comes down. Trust me the SAZ-3500D will be perfect for you subs (just cause the rms is 2000 or greater doesnt mean you have to give it that 2000rms or more for it to perform up to its capabilities).

4. Give us your max dimensions (height x width x depth) of the space you have available for an enclosure.

[tehboss 0]

Max dimensions for my Jeep are: 19 high, 39 wide,and 27 deep

I would like to make it as wide and as tall as possible.

[bigrank916 72]

okay, Ive did some calling around and will probably upgrade my alternator to the largest one on a factory vehicle (probably off a Dodge ram 5.9.) My next upgrade after that will be the Kinetik battery. So will I need to upgrade to 0 AWG right away on the battery run or will a 4 AWG run be enough until I can order the new? Also, can i just ground my battery in the back to the chassis or should i run another run of wire? Im on a strict budget so i'm trying to take this slow and steady. Only the essentials first.

Another stock alt is not going to do it with a 3500D. They are talking about specialized alternators for car audio if you didnt know. You will NEED one of those. Wait on the batt until you get the h/o alt and big 3 finished in 1/0 wire. Another batt is not essential right now.

Yes you can ground to the chassis. Its the best place.

[tehboss 0]

okay, Ive did some calling around and will probably upgrade my alternator to the largest one on a factory vehicle (probably off a Dodge ram 5.9.) My next upgrade after that will be the Kinetik battery. So will I need to upgrade to 0 AWG right away on the battery run or will a 4 AWG run be enough until I can order the new? Also, can i just ground my battery in the back to the chassis or should i run another run of wire? Im on a strict budget so i'm trying to take this slow and steady. Only the essentials first.

Another stock alt is not going to do it with a 3500D. They are talking about specialized alternators for car audio if you didnt know. You will NEED one of those. Wait on the batt until you get the h/o alt and big 3 finished in 1/0 wire. Another batt is not essential right now.

Yes you can ground to the chassis. Its the best place.

Oh, I should have been more specific. I am still currently running the PDX right now so its only around 1100 watts RMS. The biggest alternator will be a 136A on a stock vehicle. I plan on upgrading to a HO (mean green or iraggi, which is better?) as soon as i buy the 3500D. I will get a Kinetik 1400 for the rear right now, and when i buy the 3500D, I'll move the 1400 up front and get a larger kinetik for the rear. So the biggest question now is, when wiring my new battery, will i NEED to upgrade to 0 AWG now or can it wait until i buy the 3500D? If i can leave my 4 AWG run for now, It will save me a lot of trouble. Also, i'm having trouble finding where to connect my engine ground the the chassis. Is anyone familiar with the 4.0L Inline 6 on a Jeep Grand Cherokee? BTW, all of my wiring is KnuKonceptz so it is decent stuff. Not looking foward to the extra $70 in 0 AWG wiring though.

[jcarter1885 995]

If you dont want to buy the wire now then now you dont have to for that Alpine amp and if you do buy it you dont have to use it till you get the Sundown. So spend that money on other things now or buy it just to get it out the way so you dont have to buy it down the road. Just so nobody messes with you it is 1/0 awg, not 0 gauge. Hope this helps you out buddy.

[tehboss 0]

Alright man, thanks a lot. I've been trying to sort out everything and its nice to have my questions answered so quickly. I'm making a list of everything that needs to be done in the order that i need to do it. Haha, it seems to grow more everyday. Quality car audio is EXPENSIVE!

[jcarter1885 995]

Alright man, thanks a lot. I've been trying to sort out everything and its nice to have my questions answered so quickly. I'm making a list of everything that needs to be done in the order that i need to do it. Haha, it seems to grow more everyday. Quality car audio is EXPENSIVE!

Oh it just started to get expensive and will keep getting more and more expensive (watch) but no problem man and good luck.

[bigrank916 72]

okay, Ive did some calling around and will probably upgrade my alternator to the largest one on a factory vehicle (probably off a Dodge ram 5.9.) My next upgrade after that will be the Kinetik battery. So will I need to upgrade to 0 AWG right away on the battery run or will a 4 AWG run be enough until I can order the new? Also, can i just ground my battery in the back to the chassis or should i run another run of wire? Im on a strict budget so i'm trying to take this slow and steady. Only the essentials first.

Another stock alt is not going to do it with a 3500D. They are talking about specialized alternators for car audio if you didnt know. You will NEED one of those. Wait on the batt until you get the h/o alt and big 3 finished in 1/0 wire. Another batt is not essential right now.

Yes you can ground to the chassis. Its the best place.

Oh, I should have been more specific. I am still currently running the PDX right now so its only around 1100 watts RMS. The biggest alternator will be a 136A on a stock vehicle. I plan on upgrading to a HO (mean green or iraggi, which is better?) as soon as i buy the 3500D. I will get a Kinetik 1400 for the rear right now, and when i buy the 3500D, I'll move the 1400 up front and get a larger kinetik for the rear. So the biggest question now is, when wiring my new battery, will i NEED to upgrade to 0 AWG now or can it wait until i buy the 3500D? If i can leave my 4 AWG run for now, It will save me a lot of trouble. Also, i'm having trouble finding where to connect my engine ground the the chassis. Is anyone familiar with the 4.0L Inline 6 on a Jeep Grand Cherokee? BTW, all of my wiring is KnuKonceptz so it is decent stuff. Not looking foward to the extra $70 in 0 AWG wiring though.

If you say this then why do you want to buy a battery now when you clearly dont need one right now? If you plan on running the PDX until the 3500D, you wont need another alternator in the mean time. If you do the big 3 in 1/0 now, which you will have to anyway with the 3500D, you will be fine with 1100rms. Quit trying to go the easy route and just get it done. As for Mean Green, never heard of em. Iraggi on the other hand is regarded as a quality product. There are a few others as well. Try drilling a hole through the chassis and use some bolts&nuts. That should work fine.

[bigrank916 72]

damn slow internet

Edited November 18, 2009 by bigrank916

[tehboss 0]

okay, Ive did some calling around and will probably upgrade my alternator to the largest one on a factory vehicle (probably off a Dodge ram 5.9.) My next upgrade after that will be the Kinetik battery. So will I need to upgrade to 0 AWG right away on the battery run or will a 4 AWG run be enough until I can order the new? Also, can i just ground my battery in the back to the chassis or should i run another run of wire? Im on a strict budget so i'm trying to take this slow and steady. Only the essentials first.

Another stock alt is not going to do it with a 3500D. They are talking about specialized alternators for car audio if you didnt know. You will NEED one of those. Wait on the batt until you get the h/o alt and big 3 finished in 1/0 wire. Another batt is not essential right now.

Yes you can ground to the chassis. Its the best place.

Oh, I should have been more specific. I am still currently running the PDX right now so its only around 1100 watts RMS. The biggest alternator will be a 136A on a stock vehicle. I plan on upgrading to a HO (mean green or iraggi, which is better?) as soon as i buy the 3500D. I will get a Kinetik 1400 for the rear right now, and when i buy the 3500D, I'll move the 1400 up front and get a larger kinetik for the rear. So the biggest question now is, when wiring my new battery, will i NEED to upgrade to 0 AWG now or can it wait until i buy the 3500D? If i can leave my 4 AWG run for now, It will save me a lot of trouble. Also, i'm having trouble finding where to connect my engine ground the the chassis. Is anyone familiar with the 4.0L Inline 6 on a Jeep Grand Cherokee? BTW, all of my wiring is KnuKonceptz so it is decent stuff. Not looking foward to the extra $70 in 0 AWG wiring though.

If you say this then why do you want to buy a battery now when you clearly dont need one right now? If you plan on running the PDX until the 3500D, you wont need another alternator in the mean time. If you do the big 3 in 1/0 now, which you will have to anyway with the 3500D, you will be fine with 1100rms. Quit trying to go the easy route and just get it done. As for Mean Green, never heard of em. Iraggi on the other hand is regarded as a quality product. There are a few others as well. Try drilling a hole through the chassis and use some bolts&nuts. That should work fine.

Well, the reason i am planing on buying the kinetik 1400 is because I do a lot of playing with the vehicle off. I can get a really good deal on an alt (probably next to nothing) that is just a larger stock one because i know a lot of mechanics around that have connections. Remember that this is a jeep from 1993. That alt has a lot of wear on it, and it will be easier to put the larger stock one on now than to wait until mine fails. The 136A one will get me by until i can grab a H.O. one. As for the "easy route" thing, remember that I am funding this along with my insurance and gas on a minimum wage job and can only work on weekends. I WILL get it done. It will just be over a period of time. The chassis to engine grounds still have me stumped. The drilling and using nuts & bolts makes sense, but where should i attach it on the engine? I'm kind of inexperienced in the mechanical world, but I want to do it myself. Any other tips i could use? Thanks for suggestions.

[jcarter1885 995]

It sounds like your going about this the right way, get the other alternator for now and keep it until it dies on you or until your ready for your new one. Check out for the lows gallery in my gallery and you will see I just attached it to a bolt on the engine where my ground wire already was but it will give you an idea. Yeah go ahead and get that battery since your going to need it anyway, get what you can now (it will be less to buy in the future).

[bigrank916 72]

okay, Ive did some calling around and will probably upgrade my alternator to the largest one on a factory vehicle (probably off a Dodge ram 5.9.) My next upgrade after that will be the Kinetik battery. So will I need to upgrade to 0 AWG right away on the battery run or will a 4 AWG run be enough until I can order the new? Also, can i just ground my battery in the back to the chassis or should i run another run of wire? Im on a strict budget so i'm trying to take this slow and steady. Only the essentials first.

Another stock alt is not going to do it with a 3500D. They are talking about specialized alternators for car audio if you didnt know. You will NEED one of those. Wait on the batt until you get the h/o alt and big 3 finished in 1/0 wire. Another batt is not essential right now.

Yes you can ground to the chassis. Its the best place.

Oh, I should have been more specific. I am still currently running the PDX right now so its only around 1100 watts RMS. The biggest alternator will be a 136A on a stock vehicle. I plan on upgrading to a HO (mean green or iraggi, which is better?) as soon as i buy the 3500D. I will get a Kinetik 1400 for the rear right now, and when i buy the 3500D, I'll move the 1400 up front and get a larger kinetik for the rear. So the biggest question now is, when wiring my new battery, will i NEED to upgrade to 0 AWG now or can it wait until i buy the 3500D? If i can leave my 4 AWG run for now, It will save me a lot of trouble. Also, i'm having trouble finding where to connect my engine ground the the chassis. Is anyone familiar with the 4.0L Inline 6 on a Jeep Grand Cherokee? BTW, all of my wiring is KnuKonceptz so it is decent stuff. Not looking foward to the extra $70 in 0 AWG wiring though.

If you say this then why do you want to buy a battery now when you clearly dont need one right now? If you plan on running the PDX until the 3500D, you wont need another alternator in the mean time. If you do the big 3 in 1/0 now, which you will have to anyway with the 3500D, you will be fine with 1100rms. Quit trying to go the easy route and just get it done. As for Mean Green, never heard of em. Iraggi on the other hand is regarded as a quality product. There are a few others as well. Try drilling a hole through the chassis and use some bolts&nuts. That should work fine.

Well, the reason i am planing on buying the kinetik 1400 is because I do a lot of playing with the vehicle off. I can get a really good deal on an alt (probably next to nothing) that is just a larger stock one because i know a lot of mechanics around that have connections. Remember that this is a jeep from 1993. That alt has a lot of wear on it, and it will be easier to put the larger stock one on now than to wait until mine fails. The 136A one will get me by until i can grab a H.O. one. As for the "easy route" thing, remember that I am funding this along with my insurance and gas on a minimum wage job and can only work on weekends. I WILL get it done. It will just be over a period of time. The chassis to engine grounds still have me stumped. The drilling and using nuts & bolts makes sense, but where should i attach it on the engine? I'm kind of inexperienced in the mechanical world, but I want to do it myself. Any other tips i could use? Thanks for suggestions.

I thought you meant attaching it to the chassis. Use the same one the factory used. Just get the right ring terminal for the factory bolt.

[bigrank916 72]

It sounds like your going about this the right way, get the other alternator for now and keep it until it dies on you or until your ready for your new one. Check out for the lows gallery in my gallery and you will see I just attached it to a bolt on the engine where my ground wire already was but it will give you an idea. Yeah go ahead and get that battery since your going to need it anyway, get what you can now (it will be less to buy in the future).

X2. Thats what I used too. A bolt where the factory ground was on top of the intake manifold. Worked perfect because it was so close.

[tehboss 0]

Alright guys, thanks for the help. I will definitely look into the engine ground tomorrow. I do want to know if i should install a after market voltage meter. I read somewhere that the stock one doesn't give accurate readings. If i get one, where should a connect the power and ground wires to? (guessing battery because that seems to be the most obvious.)

[bigrank916 72]

Alright guys, thanks for the help. I will definitely look into the engine ground tomorrow. I do want to know if i should install a after market voltage meter. I read somewhere that the stock one doesn't give accurate readings. If i get one, where should a connect the power and ground wires to? (guessing battery because that seems to be the most obvious.)

They are nice to have. It will give you a real time reading on what kind of voltage you really have. You will need a 12 volt relay to hook it up though. I got my stinger guage and the relay from darvex.com for about $40. You can wire the power straight to the amp so you know exactly what voltage is at the amp instead of the battery. There is a topic on here about installing one. Use the search to find it and it will show you how to wire the relay with the gauge.

[tehboss 0]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate everything. My list is almost complete so I will start working on the small stuff soon. Big BASS here i come!

[bigrank916 72]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate everything. My list is almost complete so I will start working on the small stuff soon. Big BASS here i come!

Dont forget a build log!