Trunk Bass Cancellation???

[A.SMALL 17]

I currently drive a 2006 galant and i have been having trouble with getting upper bass( about 50hz and up) out of any setups i have ran. Any where above i say about 50hz is extrememly quiet, while anything below is gets low & loud, .... Set-ups i have ran include:

1. (2) infinity reference 12's

-kenwood 9103d @ about 500 R.M.S.

- 1.25 Sealed each before sub displacement

- rear firing

2. (4) Pioneer Champion Series Tsw-304

- Kenwood 9103d @ 1ohm - about 800-900 R.M.S

- about 1.1 sealed each after displacement and bracing

- up firing sealed enclosure

Current & temporary setup:

(1) Kicker Cvr 15

- Audiopipe 30001d @ 2ohms - about 900Rms

- 2.45 Sealed

- Rear firing

I do realize that none of these speakers are top 10 drivers but i dont think it is the driver at fault here, since i have had them installed in other vehicles with better results...i have been thinking going ported on my next setup since Im pretty sure that the problems extends pass my crossover settings since i have adjusted them over a million times it seems.I usually set my crossover at around 60 hz because setting it higher yields no better results, with no bass boost. I have tried using the bass boost but it jux makes it worse.I have also tried switching polarity and changing firing direction. If anyone could offer me any helpful information about gaining output on the upper end or direct me to a answer i would appreciate it....

Thanks,

Breeze

[///M5 2,833]

I cross mine over below that point lol.

How are you judging the now bass in that range? What other eq or crossover settings are applied? What sort of headunit? How did you set your gains?

Why three question marks in the title?

[jcarter1885 995]

I cross mine over below that point lol.

How are you judging the now bass in that range? What other eq or crossover settings are applied? What sort of headunit? How did you set your gains?

Why three question marks in the title?

I guess to make the title look pretty, haha. I think you need to check your settings on headunit and amp, work with this and see what you have that may be off. I highly doubt its the car that is making bass cancel, I think you may just want to go ported also since sealed doesnt seem to be cutting it for you but play around with your settings some more till you find out if its the settings or not.

Head Unit Settings

Bass Boost/Exend = Off

Loud/Loundness = Off

Sub Level: + whatever yours goes up to minus a few whatever your preference

Bass = 0 or lower, whatever your preference

Amp Settings

Gain = Set with DMM (with a 50Hz test tone and at subs rms or amps rms whichever is lower), no more than 50-60% if you dont have one.

LPF = 80Hz or lower whatever your preference

Bass Boost = Off

[A.SMALL 17]

I cross mine over below that point lol.

How are you judging the now bass in that range? What other eq or crossover settings are applied? What sort of headunit? How did you set your gains?

Why three question marks in the title?

The head unit is a Sony cdx-gt52w...I have the settings bass set at 0, loud control off, and sub level at max. I also have a Clarion EQ, cant remember the exact model but as far as bass goes i have the 50hz range set flat and the 125hz range at about +4 out of 10, and the gains were set by ear and eye...not even a quarter the way up because the Kicker CVR doesnt like 900 watts that much. Im not exactly sure what you mean by "how am i judging the now bass in that range".And idk why i used three question marks...guess i thought it looked cool lol.

Thnx,

Breeze

[A.SMALL 17]

I cross mine over below that point lol.

How are you judging the now bass in that range? What other eq or crossover settings are applied? What sort of headunit? How did you set your gains?

Why three question marks in the title?

I guess to make the title look pretty, haha. I think you need to check your settings on headunit and amp, work with this and see what you have that may be off. I highly doubt its the car that is making bass cancel, I think you may just want to go ported also since sealed doesnt seem to be cutting it for you but play around with your settings some more till you find out if its the settings or not.

Head Unit Settings

Bass Boost/Exend = Off

Loud/Loundness = Off

Sub Level: + whatever yours goes up to minus a few whatever your preference

Bass = 0 or lower, whatever your preference

Amp Settings

Gain = Set with DMM (with a 50Hz test tone and at subs rms or amps rms whichever is lower), no more than 50-60% if you dont have one.

LPF = 80Hz or lower whatever your preference

Bass Boost = Off

I have been playing with the settings almost daily and still not getting the output in the upper bass range as i want.I set the gain by ear and eye, so its not even a quarter the way up (closer to all the way down) since the Audiopipe puts out around 900rms @ 2ohms and the kicker is only rated for 500 watts rms. I can set the gains properly with a dmm but do you think that it will have any noticeable effect on the frequency response. I do agree that i should give ported a try, but the thing is i love the low-lows( 30 and below) i get out of my sealed setups and compared to the pre-fab ported boxes i have heard in others cars and trucks, they dont compare...but i believe a properly designed ported enclosure might be my next project...And i think the extra two question marks does make the title prettier lol.

Thnx,

Breeze

[bigrank916 72]

Prefab boxes are known to have high tuning areas around 40-50hz. So no, they wont produce the low bass notes you are looking for.

[B_I_B 1]

Prefab boxes are known to have high tuning areas around 40-50hz. So no, they wont produce the low bass notes you are looking for.

He said he's having trouble with high bass not low.

[KU40 173]

Prefab boxes are known to have high tuning areas around 40-50hz. So no, they wont produce the low bass notes you are looking for.

He said he's having trouble with high bass not low.

Yes, but he was saying that he doesn't like his friends' prefab boxes because they don't have lows, and bigrank was saying that he doesn't like them because their tuning frequency is too high. Which is most likely 100% the case.

Exactly how low of frequency are you talking about here? You say sub-30, but is that just down to 25-28 hz? Or do you listen to stuff with 10 hz notes in it? If it's just the former, you can get good results with a ported box.

Does your head unit have a lowpass crossover on it that is on?

As for judging the bass in that range, are you using test tones or music? If music, what instruments are you talking about (i.e.- kick drum)?

[A.SMALL 17]

Prefab boxes are known to have high tuning areas around 40-50hz. So no, they wont produce the low bass notes you are looking for.

He said he's having trouble with high bass not low.

Yes, but he was saying that he doesn't like his friends' prefab boxes because they don't have lows, and bigrank was saying that he doesn't like them because their tuning frequency is too high. Which is most likely 100% the case.

Exactly how low of frequency are you talking about here? You say sub-30, but is that just down to 25-28 hz? Or do you listen to stuff with 10 hz notes in it? If it's just the former, you can get good results with a ported box.

Does your head unit have a lowpass crossover on it that is on?

As for judging the bass in that range, are you using test tones or music? If music, what instruments are you talking about (i.e.- kick drum)?

I agree with all of you with the fact that the pre-fabed boxes i heard are tuned too high (though the owners don't think so)...that's why i was thinking a properly designed ported box will probably be my next project.

I don't believe the headunit has a low pass but i know it has a high pass for the front and rear outputs, i bought it from a friend so i don't have the manual for it yet...

When i say below 30hz i am just guessing that's about the notes that get your clothes to moving, and the feeling of air moving around you, and pressure building in your ears. For example Gucci Manes' " I Think I Love Her" & " I Think I Want Her" (They get low)... the last note in jeezy's "put on", the low notes of "Bass I Love You" (especially that lowest one), as well as a lot of notes in chopped n screwed music.

I have also played test tones in my car at 20hz before and with the driver door open its like a world wind, and that's the type of bass i like. So yes i listen to a variety of bass but the lower the better.

Not saying im only limited to the low-low bass, its just where my systems have excelled so far, and im looking for more of a balance.

The kick drum bass and upper bass lines are whats really lacking in my system, only the low bass lines seem to do what they're supposed to.

Some examples of songs that my systems have trouble with are:

lil Johns "Bia Bia" - This song sounds horrible in my car when i turn up the volume, i know the bass is high but it should sound better than what it does.

" Put Yo Hood Up" - The fast kicks in this song all sound distorted/sloppy when i turn up the volume pass moderate listening, and not to impressive at moderate volume.

So my main objective, I believe is getting the upper kicks and bass lines in my system ( aren't those the frequencies that make you feel it in your chest & the tightness?)while keeping the lows...is it possible? Or am i asking too much from my mainstream systems? lol

Thnx,

Breeze

[bigrank916 72]

So my main objective, I believe is getting the upper kicks and bass lines in my system ( aren't those the frequencies that make you feel it in your chest & the tightness?)while keeping the lows...is it possible? Or am i asking too much from my mainstream systems? lol

Thnx,

Breeze

The frequencies that you are feeling in your chest are the lower ones. They generate more pressure in the cabin of your car. The higher frequencies are louder. Thats why spl comps have higher tuning on their drivers. These generally hurt your ears more.

I think if you built a new ported box, you will get a better mix. Try something like 4.5ft3 enclosure tuned around 35hz.

[slim2fattycake 85]

I currently drive a 2006 galant and i have been having trouble with getting upper bass( about 50hz and up) out of any setups i have ran. Any where above i say about 50hz is extrememly quiet, while anything below is gets low & loud, .... Set-ups i have ran include:

1. (2) infinity reference 12's

-kenwood 9103d @ about 500 R.M.S.

- 1.25 Sealed each before sub displacement

- rear firing

2. (4) Pioneer Champion Series Tsw-304

- Kenwood 9103d @ 1ohm - about 800-900 R.M.S

- about 1.1 sealed each after displacement and bracing

- up firing sealed enclosure

Current & temporary setup:

(1) Kicker Cvr 15

- Audiopipe 30001d @ 2ohms - about 900Rms

- 2.45 Sealed

- Rear firing

I do realize that none of these speakers are top 10 drivers but i dont think it is the driver at fault here, since i have had them installed in other vehicles with better results...i have been thinking going ported on my next setup since Im pretty sure that the problems extends pass my crossover settings since i have adjusted them over a million times it seems.I usually set my crossover at around 60 hz because setting it higher yields no better results, with no bass boost. I have tried using the bass boost but it jux makes it worse.I have also tried switching polarity and changing firing direction. If anyone could offer me any helpful information about gaining output on the upper end or direct me to a answer i would appreciate it....

Thanks,

Breeze

If this is the audiopipe ap30001d model then you are not getting around 900 watts to that sub. At 2 ohms, its 3000 watts at 14.4 volts for that amp. And if this is your sub, http://www.crutchfield.com/S-cPAoE4CgbIO/p_2067C15VR4/Kicker-CompVR-07CVR154.html, then its way too much for the sub, rated at 500 watts rms. No wonder the sub doesn't like "900 watts".

[Tirefryr 1,742]

What's your application now? All cars are different, but I had a similar problem in my '85 T-bird. The only way to get any bass without cancellation was to mold the enclosure around the very back of the trunk and fire forward.

Simply switching to a vented enclosure is not going to help.

BTW, midbass is your friend. Leave the subs alone and focus on that.

[shizzzon 461]

Bia Bia peaks above 60hz so it's typical that this song sounds terrible in most setups that are tuned low.

If you want well rounded bass like that, go either sealed or tune REAL low to try and get a flat response.. or just tune in the low 40s and lose some low end.

Either way, you are gonna lose peak output potential somewhere in the playing range.

also, that 30001d is a BEAST.

I metered this amp doin over 1200w at 7.3ohms so u WAY OFF if u think it only does 900w @2ohms.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Vented with a LOW tune will only compound the problem. Flattening the response will exaggerate the low end when you factor in cabin gain.

[shizzzon 461]

yea, i havent read the whole post but was leaning towards if it's tuned a little higher than what he wants, he could back the tuning way low so the difference in the upper and lower range isn't as noticeable.

u could just do what i do.. while i do like the lows, i don't like them to dominate the entire car either.

my last 2 cars physically falled apart from tuning too low with under 2kw.

What i like to do personally is tune low but use small boxes. That way, you get just enough lows to satisfy but a monsterous upper range because tuning low in small boxes allows the box to not peak until further on down the range.

For example- when i tune my wall to 27hz, i peak at 48hz. When it's tuned to 33hz, it peaks around 54-56hz.

And i'm not missin the lows either.... u can ask those who have sat in it before.

Again, this is personal preference. Just another idea to throw out there.

[A.SMALL 17]

I currently drive a 2006 galant and i have been having trouble with getting upper bass( about 50hz and up) out of any setups i have ran. Any where above i say about 50hz is extrememly quiet, while anything below is gets low & loud, .... Set-ups i have ran include:

1. (2) infinity reference 12's

-kenwood 9103d @ about 500 R.M.S.

- 1.25 Sealed each before sub displacement

- rear firing

2. (4) Pioneer Champion Series Tsw-304

- Kenwood 9103d @ 1ohm - about 800-900 R.M.S

- about 1.1 sealed each after displacement and bracing

- up firing sealed enclosure

Current & temporary setup:

(1) Kicker Cvr 15

- Audiopipe 30001d @ 2ohms - about 900Rms

- 2.45 Sealed

- Rear firing

I do realize that none of these speakers are top 10 drivers but i dont think it is the driver at fault here, since i have had them installed in other vehicles with better results...i have been thinking going ported on my next setup since Im pretty sure that the problems extends pass my crossover settings since i have adjusted them over a million times it seems.I usually set my crossover at around 60 hz because setting it higher yields no better results, with no bass boost. I have tried using the bass boost but it jux makes it worse.I have also tried switching polarity and changing firing direction. If anyone could offer me any helpful information about gaining output on the upper end or direct me to a answer i would appreciate it....

Thanks,

Breeze

If this is the audiopipe ap30001d model then you are not getting around 900 watts to that sub. At 2 ohms, its 3000 watts at 14.4 volts for that amp. And if this is your sub, http://www.crutchfield.com/S-cPAoE4CgbIO/p_2067C15VR4/Kicker-CompVR-07CVR154.html, then its way too much for the sub, rated at 500 watts rms. No wonder the sub doesn't like "900 watts".

Lol yes that is the amp and sub i am running but the Audiopipe 30001d is two 1500d's strapped and i have it running off one channel at 2 ohms, so it is putting out around 900 watts but the gains are almost completely down.

I have ran the CVR at 2ohms bridged for fun and yea it doesnt like it lol

Breeze

[A.SMALL 17]

What's your application now? All cars are different, but I had a similar problem in my '85 T-bird. The only way to get any bass without cancellation was to mold the enclosure around the very back of the trunk and fire forward.

Simply switching to a vented enclosure is not going to help.

BTW, midbass is your friend. Leave the subs alone and focus on that.

Yea midbass & woofers will be changed in a few months...and i am probably going to do some trial and error first before i do anything permanently, but i will keep your suggestion in consideration.

Thnx,

Breeze

[A.SMALL 17]

So my main objective, I believe is getting the upper kicks and bass lines in my system ( aren't those the frequencies that make you feel it in your chest & the tightness?)while keeping the lows...is it possible? Or am i asking too much from my mainstream systems? lol

Thnx,

Breeze

The frequencies that you are feeling in your chest are the lower ones. They generate more pressure in the cabin of your car. The higher frequencies are louder. Thats why spl comps have higher tuning on their drivers. These generally hurt your ears more.

I think if you built a new ported box, you will get a better mix. Try something like 4.5ft3 enclosure tuned around 35hz.

Ok thanks for clearing that up a bit for me, and yea i may try to port the cvr but i doubt it will be a permanent set up, jux for testing purposes.

Thnx,

Breeze

[A.SMALL 17]

Bia Bia peaks above 60hz so it's typical that this song sounds terrible in most setups that are tuned low.

If you want well rounded bass like that, go either sealed or tune REAL low to try and get a flat response.. or just tune in the low 40s and lose some low end.

Either way, you are gonna lose peak output potential somewhere in the playing range.

also, that 30001d is a BEAST.

I metered this amp doin over 1200w at 7.3ohms so u WAY OFF if u think it only does 900w @2ohms.

Yea i knew that song peaked high but it was the first high bass song that came to my mind, but i am sealed now (pre-fab) and enjoy but it jux seems to be missing the feel it in your chest bass, but i will hope for better results with a custom box, and midbass up grades.

Yea the Ap3000 has not disappointing me yet....cant wait to get the system complete and see what she really can do...lol

The audiopipe does around 3000 BRIDGED @ 2ohms...i am running it off one channel @ 2ohms and manual says it does 950

So either way you cut it the cvr is being overpowered by about twice its rated, but i have been running it daily for about 4 months with no problems.

Thnx,

Breeze

[A.SMALL 17]

yea, i havent read the whole post but was leaning towards if it's tuned a little higher than what he wants, he could back the tuning way low so the difference in the upper and lower range isn't as noticeable.

u could just do what i do.. while i do like the lows, i don't like them to dominate the entire car either.

my last 2 cars physically falled apart from tuning too low with under 2kw.

What i like to do personally is tune low but use small boxes. That way, you get just enough lows to satisfy but a monsterous upper range because tuning low in small boxes allows the box to not peak until further on down the range.

For example- when i tune my wall to 27hz, i peak at 48hz. When it's tuned to 33hz, it peaks around 54-56hz.

And i'm not missin the lows either.... u can ask those who have sat in it before.

Again, this is personal preference. Just another idea to throw out there.

Shizzon you hit the nail on the head....right now my deep lows are overpowering every other bass note in the system...

Everyone that has heard my systems have been impressed with the deep lows and flex i get, but the upper bass just isn't there...

i had planed on running four 15's in my galant (will take effort but i am strongly considering) but i am gonna try maybe two ported first before i decide...it all just depends on how the $ comes in

It will be a while before i can start pulling my system together but i will definately take your suggestions into consideration...

Thnx for your help,

Breeze

[jcarter1885 995]

It also depends on how much room you have also, 4 15"s will not fit into a galant unless you do a wall.

[A.SMALL 17]

It also depends on how much room you have also, 4 15"s will not fit into a galant unless you do a wall.

I have had a enclose that was about 7ft cubed , that i built, in my trunk before.....

Getting the measurements right took some time but it worked....

Fitting 4 normal 15's in the trunk of a galant would be near impossible...

But The 15's i were referring to were the kicker solo classics that only require about 1.25 sealed each...So it is possible

Thnx,

Breeze

[jcarter1885 995]

It also depends on how much room you have also, 4 15"s will not fit into a galant unless you do a wall.

I have had a enclose that was about 7ft cubed , that i built, in my trunk before.....

Getting the measurements right took some time but it worked....

Fitting 4 normal 15's in the trunk of a galant would be near impossible...

But The 15's i were referring to were the kicker solo classics that only require about 1.25 sealed each...So it is possible

Thnx,

Breeze

Oh I thought you were still talking about ported, well yeah you could do 4-15"s sealed I knew that.

[A.SMALL 17]

It also depends on how much room you have also, 4 15"s will not fit into a galant unless you do a wall.

I have had a enclose that was about 7ft cubed , that i built, in my trunk before.....

Getting the measurements right took some time but it worked....

Fitting 4 normal 15's in the trunk of a galant would be near impossible...

But The 15's i were referring to were the kicker solo classics that only require about 1.25 sealed each...So it is possible

Thnx,

Breeze

Oh I thought you were still talking about ported, well yeah you could do 4-15"s sealed I knew that.

lol no hard feelings jay-cee....

Yea sealed is my only option there, unless someone discovers a super compact ported design that is equivalent to sealed volume lol

Ported is deafenately going to be considered and more than likely tried before i finalize my decision...

But this wont be an overnight project either way...a lot of thinking and planning is in my future now...

Breeze

[shizzzon 461]

ported is many times more efficient than sealed. So noticeable in fact a quick box swap from sealed to ported using same sub can be easily noticeable in the pressure increase.

For the human ear to distinguish it immediately shows just how much of a difference a ported design is.

An average rule.. not so much for every design but think for every 2 subs sealed will equal 1 sub ported. There is no exact science here but to expect 4 15s sealed should reach(notice how i said reach instead of equal or surpass) the output capability of 2 15s ported... but there are other factors such as power that can greatly effect this guessing game.

IT's getting pretty easy nowadays to break a 150 with 2 15s for a comp box but 4 15s sealed... that's an interesting challenge.. Most people wouldnt do it because it's wasted money.