Smokie's Focus Build

[thebiggmann12 14]

i would try building another box in the hatch area, before u go buying more subs..but it really depends on how much output ur looking for...if u looking for mid 140's im guessing the 12 isnt gonna do it. but if ur just looking for something that sounds good and still has a good deal of thump, then stick with the 12 and build another box.

[slim2fattycake 85]

Who says a 12" sub cannot do mid 140s? It can be done. Its all in testing and the box.

[jcarter1885 995]

Who says a 12" sub cannot do mid 140s? It can be done. Its all in testing and the box.

x2

[smokiethebear912 0]

I would say you made your box correctly, there was one main flaw when you bradded the nails in there you had nobody holding it down or applying pressure but yourself as you sent nails through. I did the same process with my box but it was me (my little ass) and two of my friends (6'5 and 6'6 dudes) holding it down while we did it and had great success. I bought extra glue so I could use my glue as my sealent also, not saying sealant isnt good enough just went over and beyond (made sure it as no gaps and nice caulk of glue all around every inside and outside crack). On your next box, use clamps to apply the extra pressure than use the nails if you still want to.

It wasn't just me. I actully was just the superviser and designated pizza and beer buyer for that build. I was my supposed master carpenter cousin and uncle who did most of the contruction on that box. They are used to building houses and doing rough carpentry work so this was a first for all 3 of us. I was planning on using screws but I/they were in too big of a hurry to pre-drill and countersink all those holes so we went with the brad nailer ( I had a trip coming up to Florida and i wanted my beat installed STAT!). I think this time I am just going to bite the bullet and go to harbor freight get some tools and do it myself as they tend to rush through shit and I am anal and miticulous just unsure of myself when it comes to mechanical things as I am more of a computer nerd (or used to be as i have gotten lazy and haven't built a computer since 2002 when I bought my first laptop)

Edited November 11, 2009 by smokiethebear912

[smokiethebear912 0]

i would try building another box in the hatch area, before u go buying more subs..but it really depends on how much output ur looking for...if u looking for mid 140's im guessing the 12 isnt gonna do it. but if ur just looking for something that sounds good and still has a good deal of thump, then stick with the 12 and build another box.

I am trying to get the box out of the hatch.

Who says a 12" sub cannot do mid 140s? It can be done. Its all in testing and the box.

I have seen it said install is 80% and equipment only 20%. The reason I want to go to the 15's if I can get them in there is the damn factor. I want bass then when I choose to demo it people are just slammed with great sounding base. I have never competed so I am not sure what 140 db sounds like. I have seen it being done once at large car show I went with my dad to when I used to live in Louisville, KY and it isn't something I would be adverse to doing just never had the opportunity as this is my first system and I have only had it for about 3 weeks.

[jcarter1885 995]

Why not buy another sub and amp, then build the right box for both of them and you will have what you want or buil a good box for the one you have and you will be impressed since you dont want them in the hatch, fire them up also. Just my .02.

[slim2fattycake 85]

You probably went to the carl casper show. But yeah, if it was me, a mid 140 with smaller or less subs is more impressive than more or larger subs. I know someone that did high 140s with a single 12" sub. Way more impressive but it depends on the audience. its your system so your the planner.

[smokiethebear912 0]

You probably went to the carl casper show. But yeah, if it was me, a mid 140 with smaller or less subs is more impressive than more or larger subs. I know someone that did high 140s with a single 12" sub. Way more impressive but it depends on the audience. its your system so your the planner.

Yep, Carl Casper is the one. I have lived there twice. I have lived all over. I was born in Albuquerque, New Mexico and lived in: Califonia Twice, Texas Twice, Florida three times, Georgia, Kentucky Twice, Ohio, Washington State, and now missouri Twice. I am going to see if I can get some time off work to go to the show in February.

[slim2fattycake 85]

I'll be in the show with shizzzon, jshak07, enellz, and some other local friends too. Competitors don't like the show that much for some reason. They all go because its a 3X event for MECA. Thats why I am going.

If you want to talk about living everywhere. hehe. I lived in Hanoi Vietnam, Nha Trang Vietnam, Some island on the Philippines, I think the city was Charleston West Virginia, Lansing Michigan, and then Louisville KY

[shizzzon 461]

Competitors don't like the show because the people who run Carl Casper do NOT allow competitors to demo their rides whatsoever and are NOT allowed to leave with their vehicle till after 11pm.

Once you pull in, your vehicle is locked in the building til all spectators leave.

Because it's in a building, i can understand sound dispersing quite a ways but no demos regardless of output level? that's pretty strict.

So smokie, u've been everywhere, huh? What have you been doin to have to move so many times? You a serial killa, lol

[thebiggmann12 14]

lol shizzon. if ur trying to build it in the backseat u can go 45" wide and all the way to the back of the front seats is about 30" or so. and then as tall as u want. u could def do 2 15"s hell u could do 2 18"s. thats what i was going to do, just make sure u do ur electrical if ur gonna go high wattage.

[smokiethebear912 0]

Competitors don't like the show because the people who run Carl Casper do NOT allow competitors to demo their rides whatsoever and are NOT allowed to leave with their vehicle till after 11pm.

Once you pull in, your vehicle is locked in the building til all spectators leave.

Because it's in a building, i can understand sound dispersing quite a ways but no demos regardless of output level? that's pretty strict.

So smokie, u've been everywhere, huh? What have you been doin to have to move so many times? You a serial killa, lol

Damn how did you know... Now I am gonna have to disappear again.... Just kidding... My parents were Technical Writers who wrote maintenance manuals for airplanes, missile systems, secure communications equipment, ships etc... Mostly for defense contractors and at the end civilian projects. They were at UPS when we lived in Louisville the first time and the second was when I moved out at 20 (I'm 27 now) cause the grass is always greener on the other side (which it most times isn't).

We kinda stumbled on to it at the end of the day way down at the end of some wing of the expo center. That show is so big with so many wings to the expo center that it was pure stupid luck we ended up over there. I have went about 3 times and only once did we see it.

[smokiethebear912 0]

I'll be in the show with shizzzon, jshak07, enellz, and some other local friends too. Competitors don't like the show that much for some reason. They all go because its a 3X event for MECA. Thats why I am going.

If you want to talk about living everywhere. hehe. I lived in Hanoi Vietnam, Nha Trang Vietnam, Some island on the Philippines, I think the city was Charleston West Virginia, Lansing Michigan, and then Louisville KY

I have been out of the country a few times to the Caribbean and Canada but never that far afield. Military or fun or both?

[smokiethebear912 0]

Well I got the rear seat bottom removed, and took some measurements, but I think I will have to remove the seat backs or at least go to the back and move the box to measure between the tightest part where the backs mount, because if possible I would like to make the front of the box only come so far up so I can recline the seat fully as sometimes when I travel I am broke and sleep in the car and it is very uncomfortable as it is when the seat will recline and it is a nightmare with the seat back in the normal position. I am a big dude and this is a small car so I need some extra space if possible.

Where the seat bottom mounts is conservatively (about a half inch clearance on each side) 49" wide and to the window level is 20 inches minus what ever is needed to mount the floor of the box to the floor of the car

See what I mean about rolling storage bin, and that is after i cleaned off the rear seat to remove it

[B7L|BL4Z3R 4]

clean your car son haha

[slim2fattycake 85]

I was born in Vietnam, move to Philippines for some time before moving to America.

[smokiethebear912 0]

clean your car son haha

I don't wanna!!! I know I need to though

That is why I need to dedicate that area to subs instead of refuse storage and transportation

Edited November 12, 2009 by smokiethebear912

[smokiethebear912 0]

So I went out and measured the exact amount of space I am willing to dedicate which is:

Outside Dimensions

40" Wide

19" High

21" Deep (variable but the larger it is the more "trunk I lose") so I would like to keep it reasonable

Inside Dimensions allowing for two layers of 3/4" MDF on the baffle and 1 layer elsewhere:

38.5" Wide

17.5" High

18.75" Deep

Before Port ft³: 38.5 x 17.5 x 18.75 = 12632.8 in³

12632.8/12³ = 7.31 ft³

Now is where I begin to have trouble. I have yet to find something that definitively tells me how to calculate what my port in² number should be. I have seen ranges given like 11-16 per ft³ and such but where do these numbers come from. I am sure there is some type of equation that these are figured by, but I can't find it. I do know it has something to do with the m/s of the airflow from the port which if too high can cause port noise and chuffing. How does one calculate port velocities? I need to know port size so then I can calculate the length needed to get the proper tuning which I am shooting for about 32hz. I have a feeling I am going to need the TS parameters for the xcon to figure this out but they are not posted on the main website. Well it is almost 3 AM and they have required overtime at work so I am going to force myself to sleep so I can get up an hour early and go to work... Too bad they don't have unlimited because that would get my coffers built up that much faster to buy some goodies.

[Notorious97200 339]

A 12" Fi Q on a powerful amp should be quite impressive for a first install.

Maybe something is going wrong?

What do you have for front speakers? Any amp on them?

2 Xcon would be a lot of bass (without good front speakers!!), Even one would give you a killer system

Another option would be a second sub like yours and a well design ported box.

[smokiethebear912 0]

A 12" Fi Q on a powerful amp should be quite impressive for a first install.

Maybe something is going wrong?

What do you have for front speakers? Any amp on them?

2 Xcon would be a lot of bass (without good front speakers!!), Even one would give you a killer system

Another option would be a second sub like yours and a well design ported box.

I am not saying it sounds bad or that I don't like the Q it is a great driver I just want more oomph!!! Here is what happened I jumped in feet first after doing some (but not enough) research. I thought I knew what I wanted which was a SQ system when in reality it wasn't. I want a very loud system that sounds good for daily driving and maybe some competitions. See what happened was when I thought loud in my mind my friend’s old system popped up in my mind as being loud but sounding horrible. He had 2 Sony xplodes in a Fourth Order Band pass box from circuit city or Best Buy (can't remember which) with a kicker amp. It would get loud but sounded like ass doing it. So my mind was equating loud with sounding like ass which I did not want so I went what is the polar opposite which was it appeared a SQ system which also isn't what I want. I have since learned it is all in the install and box design. What I am planning on doing now that I have retreated a bit and regrouped is give my mother the Q since she did buy it for my as a birthday present put it in a small sealed box (she has a huge trunk so ported would work if she cleaned all the crap in there out... you think mine is a rolling storage shed you should see hers) because she truly would like a sq system as she listens more to stuff like Carol King, Bonnie Raitt, The Judd’s, and some worship music as she works at a church. Also upgrade her front stage with maybe a 2-way passive set-up. Most of her music is very vocal and with some but not much bass compared to my music although I do sometimes listen to some of that kind of music like Sarah McLaughlin and Jewel and such. I have read many many reviews of different drivers and am leaning towards the xcon's because all of the reviews have described it as a more sq oriented driver with that punch I am looking for and it is dead sexy looking (I love that no dust cap concave look). I am not settled on which size and number of drivers yet as I am still in the preliminary phases of planning. I did run some numbers up above this post with some dimensions and such I just need an expert enclosure designer and/or to get the questions I asked above answered so I can do it myself.

Lest you be worried about me being only bass centric I am also planning on running a midbass in the door with a midrange and a tweet in some q-logic kicks powered by most likely a SAX-125.2 for the midbass and a SAX-100.4d for the kicks. I also want to get a new head unit like a 1-din flip out nav or modify the dash for a double din or maybe even a carputer setup.

Electrical I am looking at a new 200-amp alternator and some supplemental batts (undecided on brand but they will have some oomph to keep the voltage drop for being too bad on this much power). I haven't run the numbers yet but I have a sneaking suspicion some more runs of 1/0 are going to be needed for the amperage capacity I am going to need.

Well that is enough rambling for now, and I hope I didn’t put you guys to sleep with all of that.

[slim2fattycake 85]

I just think you could still get loud with the q by tuning higher witha bigger port. I have the SSDs and they get loud easily and can sound good as well with the lower tuning. I think making a new box first is cheaper than buying new subs.

[smokiethebear912 0]

I just think you could still get loud with the q by tuning higher witha bigger port. I have the SSDs and they get loud easily and can sound good as well with the lower tuning. I think making a new box first is cheaper than buying new subs.

It may be cheaper, but is it as fun as a whole new build?

Plus I can still do that since I am going to hook my mom up with some beat. 2 birds one stone i can regift my birthday present as her christmas gift and I get to be anal and make more crazy plans.

I am the type of guy who can't leave well enough alone!!!

Edited November 12, 2009 by smokiethebear912

[thebiggmann12 14]

have u tried using the re box calculator to get ur specs?

[smokiethebear912 0]

have u tried using the re box calculator to get ur specs?

That is what I used for this one and I swear it's cut sheet is wrong... plus I am the kind of person who wants to know why I am doing something instead of just doing it. I guess I am a nuts and bolts (or volts) type of guy.

[smokiethebear912 0]

So I went out and measured the exact amount of space I am willing to dedicate which is:

Outside Dimensions

40" Wide

19" High

21" Deep (variable but the larger it is the more "trunk I lose") so I would like to keep it reasonable

Inside Dimensions allowing for two layers of 3/4" MDF on the baffle and 1 layer elsewhere:

38.5" Wide

17.5" High

18.75" Deep

Before Port ft³: 38.5 x 17.5 x 18.75 = 12632.8 in³

12632.8/12³ = 7.31 ft³

Now is where I begin to have trouble. I have yet to find something that definitively tells me how to calculate what my port in² number should be. I have seen ranges given like 11-16 per ft³ and such but where do these numbers come from. I am sure there is some type of equation that these are figured by, but I can't find it. I do know it has something to do with the m/s of the airflow from the port which if too high can cause port noise and chuffing. How does one calculate port velocities? I need to know port size so then I can calculate the length needed to get the proper tuning which I am shooting for about 32hz. I have a feeling I am going to need the TS parameters for the xcon to figure this out but they are not posted on the main website. Well it is almost 3 AM and they have required overtime at work so I am going to force myself to sleep so I can get up an hour early and go to work... Too bad they don't have unlimited because that would get my coffers built up that much faster to buy some goodies.

I found this online which shows the rear section of where the box will go. Now if I can find one for a bit further foward as well I might be getting somewhere.