2 12" FI BL or 1 15" BTL?

[curse1022 3]

Well i know i want either a BTL or a BL, and im trying to think on which would be louder, since im pretty sure the BL's would sound a bit better.

Run off a sundown 3000, would 2 12 BL's (1500 a piece or so) or 1 BTL (3000) be louder?

im interested in the BTL a great deal but i dont have the money for 2 12" BTLs, nor the money for that kind of amp.

oh and the box for either would be ~4.5 cubes at 34hz

Edited November 4, 2009 by curse1022

[bassahaulic 155]

What are your goals? What are you looking for?

[curse1022 3]

What are your goals? What are you looking for?

Mainly SPL, but i do want it to be able to hit low and decently clear, im not looking for L7 status (loud but sound like crap)

[mjmarovi 8]

that amp will push more than 3000 watts, especially with backed up electrical. BTL's are a little more sensitive to power, which means they are louder per watt, but by going to the BL's you are adding ~50 sq. in. of cone area I would say that will give you a larger increase in SPL. Plus the BL's would be a little more musical, but I don't think with either you need to worry about the "SQ" of the woofer, with 3kw and knowing you are probably going to be driving around using all 3000 watts, I would say there will be no SQ to your system.

[Mac N Cheese 90]

I was in the same boat as you awhile ago...either 2 BLs or single 18 BTL

Both will pound hard so the decision is up to you

although the BTL is alittle cheaper FYI

[curse1022 3]

Looks like i'll go the route of 2 12" BL's more than likely, still lovin the BTL though so i'll see. i know the Bass will drown out everything but will the note at least be hitting better? im not going to be bumping them at full, or even half volume most of the time, but i would like to know whether it will hit the note decently or it will just sound like someone crapping in my ear.

[antonmiller 8]

Looks like i'll go the route of 2 12" BL's more than likely, still lovin the BTL though so i'll see. i know the Bass will drown out everything but will the note at least be hitting better? im not going to be bumping them at full, or even half volume most of the time, but i would like to know whether it will hit the note decently or it will just sound like someone crapping in my ear.

it will sound like some one is is grabbing an air hose hooking it directly to your ear and firing it(ear pressure)! most likely it will feel like some one is kicking you in the chest! lol.

But my bl i feel is very musical, if it wasnt for all the rattles of my rear deck and so on. it would sound extremely well. but like some one said above it will pound either way, you cant go wrong.

But for some more knowledge on how to help you is what kind of a vehical will these be going into? and is the 4.5 cuft before or after displacment of port and sub?

[curse1022 3]

It's going in the trunk of my Acura TL, 4.5 after sub displacement, and i believe factoring port displacement also. haha well just how much more musical is the BL over the BTL, if i got the Daily option for both?

[antonmiller 8]

It's going in the trunk of my Acura TL, 4.5 after sub displacement, and i believe factoring port displacement also. haha well just how much more musical is the BL over the BTL, if i got the Daily option for both?

i believe the BTL is more musical. thats what i hear any ways, ive never heard one tho. so i dont know. and if its going in a trunk, then your probly going to have to face everything forward towards the cabin, just because you dont want to be choked up in the trunk. but i dont know how big of a trunk those cars have. so i may be talking out of my ass on this one...

[curse1022 3]

trunk is semi small, im gonna fit 5 cu^3 but its pretty much the most i could fit in, and even then its a tight fit (i can get it in but i'll probly need help just to get the enclosure in lol). but really? i thought the BL was the more musical version? Well then perhaps ill ask for everyone's opinion on this: 2 12" Q on 2400 watts or 1 15" BTL on 2400 watts?

[antonmiller 8]

trunk is semi small, im gonna fit 5 cu^3 but its pretty much the most i could fit in, and even then its a tight fit (i can get it in but i'll probly need help just to get the enclosure in lol). but really? i thought the BL was the more musical version? Well then perhaps ill ask for everyone's opinion on this: 2 12" Q on 2400 watts or 1 15" BTL on 2400 watts?

do you want it to sound good or get loud? or do oyu want both?

from my understanding it goes like this:

Q series is for Sound Quality

BL Series is for Getting Loud

BTL Series is for Getting even louder, yet staying clean the whole time.

but i dont know since ive only heard a bl and a poorly set up Q. so yea. im not sure.

[curse1022 3]

well im mainly looking at loudness but i want SOME sq, not some kicker l7 lol.my friend who works car audio said that the Q's would be louder off same power, so im probly gonna get 2 12" FI Q since its only 60 more than the 15 BTL

[///M5 2,833]

What are your goals? What are you looking for?

Mainly SPL, but i do want it to be able to hit low and decently clear, im not looking for L7 status (loud but sound like crap)

L7's only sound like crap in crappy boxes. You put a BL or BTL in an equally poor box and it would sound just as bad. You put them all in ideal boxes and the L7 will sound just as good. It's all in the installation and yes I realize Kicker recommends rather high tuning but realistically that is what most people want.

[///M5 2,833]

well im mainly looking at loudness but i want SOME sq, not some kicker l7 lol.my friend who works car audio said that the Q's would be louder off same power, so im probly gonna get 2 12" FI Q since its only 60 more than the 15 BTL

You don't even know what that means. Not even close. Read the noob thread posting guidelines in my sig. And your friend is an idiot. The Q's will NOT be louder.

[curse1022 3]

look i realize """""SQL""""" doesnt mean a thing. what i mean is, when the bass hits, i want to at least be able to tell basically what it sounds like, not some POS noise lol.

and im not sure, 2 12 Qs being louder than 1 15 BTL sounds believable TBH, considering that a guy on Caraudio.com did 151DB on a Q before reaching mechanical limit (had it on a 2500 watt amp but still). its not too hard for me to believe that the Q's would be louder than 1 BTL, off the 2400 watts at least.

also, I'd generally consider him good with audio since he hits 151 in a box with 2 2510 DD's. not holy-shit amazing, but decent if you ask me. Not dissing you but im just saying that i trust his opinion since hes a dealer for some good brands and has put up some great scores in his car.

edit: yes i do realize that you are also on the tech team here, so your opinion is valued too. thats why im asking here also, instead of going only off of what my friend says.

Edited November 6, 2009 by curse1022

[///M5 2,833]

look i realize """"SQL"""" doesnt mean a thing. what i mean is, when the bass hits, i want to at least be able to tell basically what it sounds like, not some POS noise lol.

And even an L7 will have NO problems with that

and im not sure, 2 12 Qs being louder than 1 15 BTL sounds believable TBH, considering that a guy on Caraudio.com did 151DB on a Q before reaching mechanical limit (had it on a 2500 watt amp but still). its not too hard for me to believe that the Q's would be louder than 1 BTL, off the 2400 watts at least.

You asked about 2 12" BL's or 1 15" BTL. I won't comment between the two as your install will really narrow that down, but I will guarantee that 2 BL's will be louder than 2 Q's, 2 BTL's even louder yet. (*assumes all same diameter and in IDEAL boxes)

You aren't a Q buyer, don't even think about it. The BTL will have WAY more "SQ" than you need. Really not a concern as it will play music just fine.

More important than your driver choice is your box design and limitations. At some point everything becomes a compromise and you need to know what those are before you pick your driver.

[mjmarovi 8]

they can all get loud, I have ran Q's, BL's, and heard plenty of every sub in the line, I have even installed and IB3 in two different vehicles and now have it in home theater, so I feel I have plenty of experience with Fi.

the BTL is def. the LEAST musical of everything in the lineup. it is meant to be an SPL woofer with options that allow it to be used as a daily driver. everyone speaks of musicality as if they really think a 150 db daily ground pounder is an SQ build...not hardly. As long as you have a decent install, it wont sound like crap, and I understand you want it loud. so don't worry about what is going to sound "better"

on same amount of power, same size woofer, the BTL is the loudest, second is the BL, and third is the Q. and just opposite, the Q is most musical, second is the BL, and then the BTL. (this is keeping SSD's and IB3's out of the equation as neither should a woofer option for you and this amount of power)

as I stated before, the increase in cone area of the 2 12's would overcome the sensitivity of the single 15", so two 12" BL's would really be the best option for you. They will be the loudest you can get besides going with two 12" BTL's in that amount of airspace, and will still remain quite "musical".

this is what is recommended by how each lineup is designed...just remember the final and most important influence on performance is the install job. I have seen systems running Q's hit over 160 db's, and have also seen BTL's ran as daily musical subs, but it is very install dependent, and since you already know what space you ave to work with, again, BL's with your range of budget are the best choice.

as for how to place subs/port. well facing subs and port into the cabin and sealing off the enclosure to the trunk is generally the loudest. This does require a little more work and fabrication, and if you are an amateur one of the harder installs to do successfully. As long as there is some air passages around the box, sub back and port back works extremely well and is def. the best option for building a box that you can take in and out of the trunk.

[mjmarovi 8]

look i realize """"""SQL"""""" doesnt mean a thing. what i mean is, when the bass hits, i want to at least be able to tell basically what it sounds like, not some POS noise lol.

and im not sure, 2 12 Qs being louder than 1 15 BTL sounds believable TBH, considering that a guy on Caraudio.com did 151DB on a Q before reaching mechanical limit (had it on a 2500 watt amp but still). its not too hard for me to believe that the Q's would be louder than 1 BTL, off the 2400 watts at least.

also, I'd generally consider him good with audio since he hits 151 in a box with 2 2510 DD's. not holy-shit amazing, but decent if you ask me. Not dissing you but im just saying that i trust his opinion since hes a dealer for some good brands and has put up some great scores in his car.

edit: yes i do realize that you are also on the tech team here, so your opinion is valued too. thats why im asking here also, instead of going only off of what my friend says.

no offense, but I'm sure M5 and I both have knowledge far more vast than your friend, and the Q's being louder than BTL's comment makes the test a one question failure for your friend. this forum is filled with people that have been doing car audio for most of their lives, people that own and design speakers for a living, and people that work with those people and do everything they can to improve car audio.

so basically if you want to go listen to your friend, then go do that, don't come onto a forum like this and ask for help then go off and listen to your friend who heard about Fi through the grapvine and thinks he is the shit for hitting 151. give me a break!

btw I have seen a BL 10" do a 152 out of a trunk, I have seen a single Fi Q do 147 on music on a thousand watt amp, and the list goes on and on.....

[curse1022 3]

haha if i was just going to listen to my friend, i wouldn't have even bothered posting this topic since i asked him before i posted this. i would love to run 2 12" BL but im not sure whether i can get an enclosure that would do them justice into my trunk, i really need to talk to someone about that lol. the money is somewhat of an issue but i think it would be best to save up and run what would be best rather than splurge early and want to upgrade later.

[mjmarovi 8]

haha if i was just going to listen to my friend, i wouldn't have even bothered posting this topic since i asked him before i posted this. i would love to run 2 12" BL but im not sure whether i can get an enclosure that would do them justice into my trunk, i really need to talk to someone about that lol. the money is somewhat of an issue but i think it would be best to save up and run what would be best rather than splurge early and want to upgrade later.

alright, open your ears and I am more than happy to help. I also like the fact you took the time to PM me, that shows me you are truly looking for help and not

LOL ok so lets see if we can get a fresh start. I understand your goals, now lets truly see what you have to work with. take measurements of space you have available in your trunk, remember you will have to fit this box into the trunk so be sure it is not larger than the opening. we'll go from there....

[curse1022 3]

haha if i was just going to listen to my friend, i wouldn't have even bothered posting this topic since i asked him before i posted this. i would love to run 2 12" BL but im not sure whether i can get an enclosure that would do them justice into my trunk, i really need to talk to someone about that lol. the money is somewhat of an issue but i think it would be best to save up and run what would be best rather than splurge early and want to upgrade later.

alright, open your ears and I am more than happy to help. I also like the fact you took the time to PM me, that shows me you are truly looking for help and not

LOL ok so lets see if we can get a fresh start. I understand your goals, now lets truly see what you have to work with. take measurements of space you have available in your trunk, remember you will have to fit this box into the trunk so be sure it is not larger than the opening. we'll go from there....

Yeah i mean im certainly a noob, but i definitely am looking to get it right the first time and in order to do so, i have to be willing to listen. Why bother posting if your mind is already set ? i can't tonight but tomorrow ill see if i can borrow my friends camera, i'm probably gonna take a LOT of pictures of different areas of the trunk cuz im not sure how best it would fit (wide/small depth or more squareish) so i'm just gonna try to get every logical measurement i can. Thanks for the help so far everyone, i'll post up tomorrow afternoon.

[mjmarovi 8]

sent you a PM, can probably just help you from here via PM.

[///M5 2,833]

And as stated in PM's and in your thread, the FIRST step in choosing a subwoofer is defining EXACTLY how much space you have for a box. It is pointless to discuss options before then as you could make a very uninformed decision that could be terrible for your space.

[curse1022 3]

Finally got around to uploading the pictures, wasnt at home at all yesterday.

edit: if you're wondering how large any given area is, just ask and ill go get measures.

Edited November 7, 2009 by curse1022

[jcarter1885 995]

Actually if you need help or determining what can fit in your trunk then you go measue before someone has to ask you (that would be smart).

Get max dimensions for width (usually use trunk opening unless building box in car), depth and height of trunk.

Everybody is wondering how big the area is considering we cant tell from a picture.