Wiring Questions

[jcarter1885 995]

I will be starting my build log as soon as I get a job, either this month (hopefully) or next month (at the latest) so I want to do everything right any buy the book. I drive a 2003 Saturn Ion with stock alternator for now(depending if I run my sub amp at 1 ohm or 2 ohms) and I have done the Big 2 (Grounds - Engine Block to Frame / 1run and Battery to Frame / 2runs) in Kicker HyperFlex 1/0 AWG. I will be using a Kenwood KDC-X492 (will be upgrading after the build is complete) for head unit with a Epic Center 160 for voltage and bass in older recordings since I listen to a lot of old school music. The subs have not been decided on and the interior speakers have not been decided on yet. I will be running the SAX-125.2 at 2 ohms on both channels and I will be running the SAZ-2000D at either 2 or 1 ohm (if one ohm I will be getting a HO alternator later on down the road once I find one).

Question #1: I see people comparing Kicker HyperFlex to KnuKonceptz 1/0 AWG wire and saying Knu wire has more strands and bigger, I have both wire and cant really tell (is it true)?

Question #2: Is Welding wire good and how does there 1/0AWG compare to Kicker HyperFlex and KnuKonceptz?

Question #3: When is welding wire 2/0, 3/0 or 4/0 AWG wire required for an install?

Question #4: My main battery is in the trunk (factory location, I will replace this with a bigger battery). I will be buying two batteries and using them as starting and system battery (either will be 2-80AH's if I use SAZ-2000d at 2ohms or 2-100AH's or more if I use SAZ-2000D at 1 ohm). What size wire should I use between the batteries I was thinking 1/0 AWG Knu wire from battery 1 to battery 2 (or should I use 2/0), 1/0 AWG from battery #2 to distribution block, 1/0 AWG (SAZ-2000D) and 4 AWG (SAE-125.2) to amps.

***To keep this a little clean and uncluttered with guesses, I would like people who have experience in this area and have actually used all three wires (just dont want someone answering just one question please try to give your input on all questions, thats why I want someone experienced otherwise it will turn into people answering just one question and the topic only centered around that answer). Thanks for input and help fellas.***

[slim2fattycake 85]

I have used kicker hyperflex 4gauge and 1/0, I have only used knu 4gauge and smaller and I am using 1/0 welding cables now. Flexibility isn't that big of a difference between the kicker hyperflex and the welding cable. The welding cable holds form better while the hyperflex almost feels like wet noodles. The Knu 4 gauge was a lot more stout than the kicker hyperflex 4 gauge. The welding cable was about the same as the kicker 1/0 but strands were bigger in the welding cable. If you are losing voltage or are pulling alot of amperage through your wires then I'd upgrade. I don't think you need 2/0 though.

On the knu wires, I think their prices have gone up because of the newer wires. I think welding cables are the best bang for the buck wires you can get.

[bassahaulic 155]

I have all three types of wire. From what I can tell, the Knu wire has more stands then the Kicker, which is second, then the welding cable with the lowest count.

I haven't had any issue with any of the wire, all seems to let power flow easy with little resistance.

Although, the welding cable is MUCH stiffer then the Kicker or Knu wire.

[djphilly 11]

difference between stinger and knukonceptz 4 gauge. I've compare kicker to stinger before and so has the people at knuconceptz. this is from their website

stinger on the left, knu on the right

just picture what the difference is in 1/0

Edited November 3, 2009 by djphilly

[CrazyKenKid 64]

i have used kicker and knu wire and i prefer the knu stuff myself.

i currently have a 100.4 and a saz2000 (1ohm) and i have ONLY 1 run of 1/0 wire, from knu, from front to back and in the rear i have 2 batcap 2000's wired also with 1/0 wiring(1 run).

IDEALY you want to use the biggest wire you can get to get the resistance down or just more runs of 1/0 wire (remember hooked in parallel the resistance will drop lol) i have HEARD that welding wire is about the same to use just stiffer but WAY more cheaper. you have to be careful though b/c the jacket on the welding wire is less durable so watch out for cuts or anything of that nature. also if you are looking to get it cheap there is a site called... weldingsupplies.com or something like that

but those are my thoughts i hope they help out a little!

[CrazyKenKid 64]

difference between stinger and knukonceptz 4 gauge

just picture what the difference is in 1/0

ya that is the knu in white right? that stuff is SUPER thick and hard to work with, the other stuff though the mroe expensive stuff is SO Much easier to use! i am refering to the Kolossus Fleks Kable

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=Kolossus Fleks Kable

the knu white stuff the cheaper stuff is a pain to work with i find!

like for example look at my 2 pics. in the 1 you can see how much the white wire didn't want to bend and in the other the black wire (and red) bent no problem. the black and red is fleks kable and the other pic is the KLMX and this is ALL 1/0 wiring. and the blue i believe is the kicker stuff!

also if you notice in the second pic how easy the black wire bent compared to the white wire!

[djphilly 11]

difference between stinger and knukonceptz 4 gauge

just picture what the difference is in 1/0

ya that is the knu in white right? that stuff is SUPER thick and hard to work with, the other stuff though the mroe expensive stuff is SO Much easier to use! i am refering to the Kolossus Fleks Kable

the knu white stuff the cheaper stuff is a pain to work with i find!

also if you notice in the second pic how easy the black wire bent compared to the white wire!

yes i've heard that the pearl white stuff is harder to use. i was using the pic as an comparison to other cable. the kolossus flex is the cable to go with

[CrazyKenKid 64]

hey that makes sense why kicker is more flexible lol b/c ther was less strands lol!! and in yoru pic it illistates that really well! nice close up~! would you mind if borrowed that pic for a reference pic?

[djphilly 11]

hey that makes sense why kicker is more flexible lol b/c ther was less strands lol!! and in yoru pic it illistates that really well! nice close up~! would you mind if borrowed that pic for a reference pic?

that pic is acutally from knukonceptz website. so sure help yourself

[jcarter1885 995]

Thanks guys I guess I could of done some research first and get a few answers, Kicker Hyperflex 1/0 awg wire has 4,704 strand count (Called Kicker Technical Support and got this answer) and my KnuKonceptz Kolossus Fleks Cable has 5,145 strand count (says on wire jacket and website) which is actually 2/0 awg equivalent.

KnuKonceptz has 441 more strands than Kicker Hyperflex wire.

[shizzzon 461]

hey that makes sense why kicker is more flexible lol b/c ther was less strands lol!

The more strands you have... the thinner the wire has to be to maintain the same surface area so if comparing equal surface areas... then the wire with the MORE strands should be more flexible without taking into consideration the jacket they are in!

The Kolossus Flex cable i use is very very flexible and it's using a different jacket to house the wire in.

[Impious 1,476]

FYI, the KLM is thicker because it is Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA), which inherently has higher resistance and worse conductivity. If the KLM were the same thickness as the Stinger, then it would have higher resistance and more voltage drop. So they had to make the wire thicker to compensate for and offset this higher resistance. KLM is not thicker because it's better...it's thicker because it needs to be to compensate for it's own performance deficiencies compared to the pure copper cable.

Edit: And from looking @ Knu's website, they've replaced the KLM with KLMX which has the same surface area as their copper products...which means it is inferior in performance to anything that's 100% copper of equivalent gauge. They now state on their website the KLMX is designed for lighter current loads.

difference between stinger and knukonceptz 4 gauge. I've compare kicker to stinger before and so has the people at knuconceptz. this is from their website

stinger on the left, knu on the right

just picture what the difference is in 1/0

[CrazyKenKid 64]

o ya the aluminum coating(tinned) lol! completely forgot about that. but doesn't that aluminum(tinned coating) actually have a practical use other then making the resistance higher?

FYI, the KLM is thicker because it is Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA), which inherently has higher resistance. If the KLM were the same thickness as the Stinger, then it would have higher resistance and more voltage drop. So they had to make the wire thicker to compensate for and offset this higher resistance. KLM not thicker because it's better...it's thicker because it needs to be to compensate for it's own performance deficiencies compared to the pure copper cable.

difference between stinger and knukonceptz 4 gauge. I've compare kicker to stinger before and so has the people at knuconceptz. this is from their website

stinger on the left, knu on the right

just picture what the difference is in 1/0

[Impious 1,476]

o ya the aluminum coating(tinned) lol! completely forgot about that. but doesn't that aluminum(tinned coating) actually have a practical use other then making the resistance higher?

It's not aluminum tinned or coated. That's completely different.

90% of CCA wire is aluminum. It's an aluminum wire with a thin coating of copper to help protect against oxidation.

The sole purpose of doing it this way is to reduce the cost of the wire. There are no performance benefits...aluminum is simply a worse conductor than copper.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

o ya the aluminum coating(tinned) lol! completely forgot about that. but doesn't that aluminum(tinned coating) actually have a practical use other then making the resistance higher?

It's not aluminum tinned or coated. That's completely different.

90% of CCA wire is aluminum. It's an aluminum wire with a thin coating of copper to help protect against oxidation.

The sole purpose of doing it this way is to reduce the cost of the wire. There are no performance benefits...aluminum is simply a worse conductor than copper.

hey thanks for clearing that up for me!! that make sense!

thankyou very much!

Kenneth