New Setup, Starting from Zero. Tips Welcomed!

[slim142 9]

There is nothing wrong with using the phase shift. That is just used to match the phase of the subwoofer with your interior speakers. It does not boost or cut the signal in any way. In fact I would recommend you play with it, turning it every which way while the whole stereo is playing. That way you can get an idea of what it does and can set it where you want it. You'll notice that the beat of the sub will move from hitting at the same time as the interior speakers to seemingly being late hitting in step with the interior speakers as you turn the knob. You'll want to adjust the phase so that they hit the note at the same time.

As for the gain, you cannot arbitrarily set it at 12:00. You may get full power at only 9:00 depending on the input voltage from the RCAs, and you may be into clipping at 12:00 in that case. The thing I do is just turn the head unit up to the maximum you listen to the interior speakers, then turn the amp gain up until the sub starts sounding funny or stops getting louder, then back the gain off a tad. You can set it with a DMM if you want, but it can be simpler.

What do you mean change terminals from 4 gauge to 1/0? Are you talking about the ring terminals on the battery? Those will have to be changed. You can't pull the 4 gauge wire out of it and still use it. 1/0 wire won't fit into it.

Oh ok, so thats what the phase shift is for. Will prob spend time with it after I listen to the amp and how is sounding.

The gain, ill do what you are telling me. You are right, 9:00 might be the right setting and 12 would just be too much. I think I'm suppose to set my Bass and Treble to default in my receiver right? After setting the gain, can I use my Bass and Treble settings or am I suppose to leave them always at default?

Finally, Im using High-Level Input since Im using factory receiver (just wanted to point this). Somebody mentioned before in this thread that it doesnt matter what kind of connection I use as long as my gain is right, the sound will come out like it should.

And about the terminals I meant the power & ground connectors that go into the amplifier. I thought I needed to change those in order to use the Sundown amplifier. But since you said I can use my 4 gauge with the Sundown, I guess all I need to do is disconnect old one, and connect to the new one.

I thought you could put 1/0 connectors into 4 gauge cables, but it would require tools to make it fit. Am I wrong?

[jcarter1885 995]

There is nothing wrong with using the phase shift. That is just used to match the phase of the subwoofer with your interior speakers. It does not boost or cut the signal in any way. In fact I would recommend you play with it, turning it every which way while the whole stereo is playing. That way you can get an idea of what it does and can set it where you want it. You'll notice that the beat of the sub will move from hitting at the same time as the interior speakers to seemingly being late hitting in step with the interior speakers as you turn the knob. You'll want to adjust the phase so that they hit the note at the same time.

As for the gain, you cannot arbitrarily set it at 12:00. You may get full power at only 9:00 depending on the input voltage from the RCAs, and you may be into clipping at 12:00 in that case. The thing I do is just turn the head unit up to the maximum you listen to the interior speakers, then turn the amp gain up until the sub starts sounding funny or stops getting louder, then back the gain off a tad. You can set it with a DMM if you want, but it can be simpler.

What do you mean change terminals from 4 gauge to 1/0? Are you talking about the ring terminals on the battery? Those will have to be changed. You can't pull the 4 gauge wire out of it and still use it. 1/0 wire won't fit into it.

Oh ok, so thats what the phase shift is for. Will prob spend time with it after I listen to the amp and how is sounding.

The gain, ill do what you are telling me. You are right, 9:00 might be the right setting and 12 would just be too much. I think I'm suppose to set my Bass and Treble to default in my receiver right? After setting the gain, can I use my Bass and Treble settings or am I suppose to leave them always at default?

Finally, Im using High-Level Input since Im using factory receiver (just wanted to point this). Somebody mentioned before in this thread that it doesnt matter what kind of connection I use as long as my gain is right, the sound will come out like it should.

And about the terminals I meant the power & ground connectors that go into the amplifier. I thought I needed to change those in order to use the Sundown amplifier. But since you said I can use my 4 gauge with the Sundown, I guess all I need to do is disconnect old one, and connect to the new one.

I thought you could put 1/0 connectors into 4 gauge cables, but it would require tools to make it fit. Am I wrong?

If your amp had 4 gauge terminals on it then yeah you could use a 1/0AWG reducer to 4 guage but since Sundown has 1/0AWG terminals you dont have to worry about that. Yeah all you have to do is unhook your old amplifier and just put the wires into your new amp when it comes.

[slim142 9]

Omg with so many good reviews from users here about SSA and Denim, I cant wait to get that amp and start TRULY using my Pioneer sub!!!!

I hope everything gets here before next weekend and safe!!! Woooooo

EDIT: Wow, one of the most important things and I didnt even notice. Please tell me the SAZ-2000D has high-level input connector. If not, thats $65 that I will have to pay to have an audio to RCA adaptor installed... great...

Edited December 19, 2009 by slim142

[KU40 173]

How is it going to cost you 65? Most LOCs only cost like 10 bucks, and that's something you can DEFINITELY do yourself.

[slim142 9]

Well the guy I used to buy stuff from charges $40 for installations. Plus $25 for those adaptors.

Well, is it really that easy? I mean I could try is just that I dont want to get stuck in certain point you know.

[KU40 173]

Honestly all you have to do is use four butt connectors and plug in RCAs. Can you handle that?

[slim142 9]

Hmm thats not the problem. I know Im making a big deal out of it but the problem here is 1) I dont know the car 2) everytime I look around where can I pop things off to look for screws, it seems like Im going to break something and I dont want that to happen.

On the other side I fixed my amp settings. I had a lot of mistakes there

1) Bass Boost was on like 40%, is now on 0% (off)

2) My Low Pass Filter was on 100Hz, I left that there. However, the slope was on 24db!, I set it to 12db.

3) My Subsonic Filter was on 20Hz, that was good there. However, the slope was OFF, I immediately changed it to 24db.

My system sounds really low now (as missing bass), but I guess thats because of the Bass Boost. I left my Gain on 50% but I would need a DMM to know where exactly I should set it.

I didnt know Bass Boost had that much impact when it came to low notes. Sucks... I feel like I have factory speakers only LOL

[KU40 173]

There's nothing wrong with a 24db slope on the lowpass filter.

If your system isn't even close to its limits, you can turn the gain up.

[slim142 9]

There's nothing wrong with a 24db slope on the lowpass filter.

If your system isn't even close to its limits, you can turn the gain up.

Yeah I have a feeling my Gain could go higher. When I have my Bass setting in default in the receiver, bass is almost non-existent and I think you guys told me not to increase the bass in the receiver. The only way I feel the subwoofer IS actually working is when I rise the bass in the receiver, but I think thats a no-no right?

[jcarter1885 995]

On your head unit do not touch the Bass Boost/Extend or Loudness feature. You can turn up your subwoofer lever as high as it goes if you have one and you can adjust the Bass(on the Bass,Mid,Treble features) to 0.

[KU40 173]

Yeah, you have to figure out if the bass feature on your head unit is a boost or just an overall voltage increase. If it's a bass boost (a boost in output at a given frequency, like 45 hz), don't use it. But if it's a level adjustment, as in it affects the signal as a whole just like a volume knob, then you can turn that all the way up as Jaycee said.

However, I'm guessing that since you're just using high-level inputs (correct?), that it's just a bass boost. As far as I've ever known the overall level adjustment are only for if you have a dedicated subwoofer RCA output on the head unit. They have front, rear, and sub RCA outputs.

[slim142 9]

Well since it is only a factory head unit, it only has "Bass" and "Treble" settings, nothing else. There is NO such thing as Bass Boost/Extend or Loudness or just Subwoofer like in Alpine units.

With that said, I will try increasing the Gain in the amplifier to see if that improves things without harming anything, but I will def need a DMM as I dont want to play too high with the Gain.

One question tho, why is it bad to play with the Bass setting on the receiver?

Edited December 20, 2009 by slim142

[jcarter1885 995]

Well since it is only a factory head unit, it only has "Bass" and "Treble" settings, nothing else. There is NO such thing as Bass Boost/Extend or Loudness or just Subwoofer like in Alpine units.

With that said, I will try increasing the Gain in the amplifier to see if that improves things without harming anything, but I will def need a DMM as I dont want to play too high with the Gain.

One question tho, why is it bad to play with the Bass setting on the receiver?

You can play with the Bass setting on the receiver, you just dont want it to go to high because then you are boosting it. Usually you want to only go from 0 on down, then just mess with your amps gains.

Even the treble you dont want to go to high on and add a lot of boost to your system because that is how you mess up internal speakers. To much boost is bad for almost any speakers.

[slim142 9]

Ok I see

So even if I set my Gain right with a DMM, I can still play with the Bass setting in the receiver... maybe +2 or +3 (goes up to +6).

On the other side (sorry for changing topics a lot lol)

I just realized something. The gain with my current system (Pioneer + Sony) should be sqrt( 2ohms * 900) = 42.43

Now, I just bought the 2000D and I plan on using it at 1ohm so that it gets the whole 2000watts RMS from the SAZ-2000D. To set the gain, we do the formula sqrt (1ohm * 2000) = 44.72

Does this sound right? Idk if its because I havent played with enough car amplifiers, but are the numbers correct according to what I just wrote? They seem really close to each other =/

EDIT: Just fixed my system. Increased Gain to 0.5 (which would be ~2:00 o'clock) and set my Bass to +3 on the receiver. Bass improved a bit, however I noticed when I put +6, the bass comes out louder at the level I wish it could come. I dont wanna risk it and increase the Gain all the way to 0.2 I feel like that would not be in a safe zone without a DMM.

Edited December 20, 2009 by slim142

[KU40 173]

So even if I set my Gain right with a DMM, I can still play with the Bass setting in the receiver... maybe +2 or +3 (goes up to +6).

This is exactly what you do NOT want to do. Doing this is what causes clipping. If you set your gain to say 45 volts or whatever with the bass at 0, then you increase the bass setting on your head unit, the voltage at the amp will increase to, say, 50 volts. But if 45 volts is the maximum unclipped power the amp can provide, that extra 5 volts leads the amp into clipping and/or is just more power than you set up the amp to send to the sub.

Your voltages at 2 ohm and 1 ohm will be close to each other, because multiply out what's in the parenthesis. 2 * 900 = 1800. 1 * 2000 = 2000. The square root of those numbers will be close.

Your bass on the head unit is a bass boost. That will increase the bass at a certain frequency, like 45 hz. Basically you'll get a hump in your response (in addition to possible clipping). I will say this again- turn up the gain before using the bass boost. I guarantee you that if you use that bass boost, you are basically moving the gain to 0.2. The extra loudness in the sub using the bass boost has to come from extra power, right?

[slim142 9]

This is exactly what you do NOT want to do. Doing this is what causes clipping. If you set your gain to say 45 volts or whatever with the bass at 0, then you increase the bass setting on your head unit, the voltage at the amp will increase to, say, 50 volts. But if 45 volts is the maximum unclipped power the amp can provide, that extra 5 volts leads the amp into clipping and/or is just more power than you set up the amp to send to the sub.

Your voltages at 2 ohm and 1 ohm will be close to each other, because multiply out what's in the parenthesis. 2 * 900 = 1800. 1 * 2000 = 2000. The square root of those numbers will be close.

Your bass on the head unit is a bass boost. That will increase the bass at a certain frequency, like 45 hz. Basically you'll get a hump in your response (in addition to possible clipping). I will say this again- turn up the gain before using the bass boost. I guarantee you that if you use that bass boost, you are basically moving the gain to 0.2. The extra loudness in the sub using the bass boost has to come from extra power, right?

Ok I see what you mean now.

But could it be possible, let say, if your gain is suppose to be 45, can you set it on something like 40 so you can have bass boost room in the receiver? Or is this a bad idea at all?

About the voltages for the formula, yeah my question about if it was right was because a 18" BTL @ 1ohm barely needs more gain than my current 12" Pioneer @ 2ohms so I thought it was kinda weird... but again since I dont have much amp experience...

Lastly, in the history of amps and subs, has there been needs to have the Gain up all the way to 0.2 gain? I mean, like I said already I dont have a DMM and I have no idea where in the world could that 44.43v be in my amp. I also want my bass without hurting my system but at 0.2 Im already wondering if thats a safe spot...

[KU40 173]

I don't see why you would want to set the gain at 40 volts then use the boost to get it up to 45. That will not only provide the same power as just setting the gain at 45 in the first place, but doing so would increase a hump in the frequency response. What you're likely getting now is probably something like 130 db at 20-40 hz, 135 db at 40-50 hz, and 130 db from 50 hz +. The hump at 40-50 is because of the bass boost. Is that the kind of response you want? Granted this is not a given since you would need to play test tones with a mic over all the frequencies to prove this, but this is generally what happens when you use bass boost.

Yes there have been needs to have the gain all the way up. The gain is just a potentiometer to match input voltage to your head unit voltage. If you set your gain with the head unit at, say, volume 3 out of 40, you won't be getting much voltage down the line and will need to turn the gain all the way up most likely. The gain is not a "dirty" knob, where turning it up is always bad.

[jcarter1885 995]

Either turn your gain up a little more for some more bass or invest in some better sub(s). But if you insist on trying to use bass boost then go ahead at your discretion and hope you wont damage your subs which will have you out buying new ones.

[slim142 9]

I don't see why you would want to set the gain at 40 volts then use the boost to get it up to 45. That will not only provide the same power as just setting the gain at 45 in the first place, but doing so would increase a hump in the frequency response. What you're likely getting now is probably something like 130 db at 20-40 hz, 135 db at 40-50 hz, and 130 db from 50 hz +. The hump at 40-50 is because of the bass boost. Is that the kind of response you want? Granted this is not a given since you would need to play test tones with a mic over all the frequencies to prove this, but this is generally what happens when you use bass boost.

Thanks for that explanation. I now know after reading your post, why bass boost is a bad choice. Excellent and clear explanation.

Will definitely have to turn my gain just a bit more so I can leave my bass setting on default.

Jay-cee, getting a new sub for now is not an option as Im saving for the BTL monster.

[///M5 2,833]

All EQ should only be used for cuts, never boost. Doesn't matter the type.

[slim142 9]

All EQ should only be used for cuts, never boost. Doesn't matter the type.

Thanks man. Now I know when I get my Alpine unit, I should not increase those Subwoofer/Bass/Treble/Loudness settings at all.

[KU40 173]

On the Alpine head unit the subwoofer setting likely controls the subwoofer RCA output if it's like my Alpine. That's fine to turn up, in fact I'd recommend setting the amp gain with it all the way up. That setting is not a bass boost. It adjusts the overall level of the subwoofer output relative to the signal strength of the interior speakers. The "Bass" part is the bass boost.

[///M5 2,833]

On the Alpine head unit the subwoofer setting likely controls the subwoofer RCA output if it's like my Alpine. That's fine to turn up, in fact I'd recommend setting the amp gain with it all the way up. That setting is not a bass boost. It adjusts the overall level of the subwoofer output relative to the signal strength of the interior speakers. The "Bass" part is the bass boost.

Agreed...as long as it doesn't clip. Easy to test though

And that volume level is definitely not an eq.

[slim142 9]

Oh ok so Subwoofer setting is ok. Bass setting is the bad boy here. Thanks for that info.

Man, Im getting my Sundown tomorrow and I just noticed I will have to connect a remote cable and run the RCA. Grrrr.... thought it was gonna be easier than that.

[slim142 9]

I hope you guys dont kill me but another question just recently came up to my head.

So let say I increase my gain and my bassy music sounds good. But when I play something that does not need bass, the only way I have to "kill" that extra bass would be to lower my bass setting on the receiver. Wouldnt that make the song be like for example 120db 20-40hz 110db 40-60hz 120db 60hz and higher. I dont think not-bassy music go as low as 45hz, but still would kind of mess with the frequencies right?

My guess is that, that is the result of buying such a bad amp that did not come with a bass remote. I could just easily decrease the knob and have everything balanced, but since the amp does not have that. Im stuck with using the receiver.

Edited December 23, 2009 by slim142