New Setup, Starting from Zero. Tips Welcomed!

[slim142 9]

I have some bad news (from current system)

So my battery just decided to go dead. Car barely turns on and I need it to be fully operational every day. Went to Advanced Auto Parts to get a new battery (with free installation) and it seems like the audio system was the responsable for my previous batterys death.

The guy recommended a capacitor. Yes I know this are a waste of money and should be avoided. Now, unfortunately, I do not have any money to buy an extra battery just for the sub or replace the alternator. I dont want to keep spending money on this system either. But, I have no choice.

Im planning on buying a cap for the time until I can replace the system (with the monster BTL system discussed before).

Since my amp is 900watts RMS and sub is 1000watts RMS, I think a 1 Farad capacitor will do the job.

Im planning on getting this one Rockford Fosgate RFC1D. Seems a little overpriced, but I want it to be a good brand just to be safe.

Is this a good cap? Remember is just for the time being, this system will be definitely put for sale once I get my BTL, Sundown amp, Alpine deck etc

[slim142 9]

Bump

[KU40 173]

How old was the battery?

BTW, all capacitors are overpriced.

[slim142 9]

Well is a 2007 Ford Expedition so yeah it also surprised me. 4 Gauge power and ground cables too.

I know RF is way overpriced, but I plan on getting rid of it with the whole system later.

[mjmarovi 8]

how much are you getting it for? a kinetik hc600 would do the trick for that system no problem. http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_20378_Kinetik_KHC600.aspx

IMO you should go ahead and go for the 1400 or something now, and use it as the starting battery in your new setup/vehicle. The current battery you have can be slow charged and brought back to life just to throw back in when you switch vehicles.

this way this small investment you have to make now wont be a complete waste like it would be with the cap. which even with that cap, for any amount of time playing your system it will still put stress on your battery and charging system.

[KU40 173]

I forgot to ask this question earlier, but did you play the system a lot with the car off, thus sorta draining the battery often?

I think Expeditions should all have at least a 130 amp alternator, which is enough for that system. But most batteries don't take too kindly to being drained too many times.

[slim142 9]

how much are you getting it for? a kinetik hc600 would do the trick for that system no problem. http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_20378_Kinetik_KHC600.aspx

IMO you should go ahead and go for the 1400 or something now, and use it as the starting battery in your new setup/vehicle. The current battery you have can be slow charged and brought back to life just to throw back in when you switch vehicles.

this way this small investment you have to make now wont be a complete waste like it would be with the cap. which even with that cap, for any amount of time playing your system it will still put stress on your battery and charging system.

Well that capacitor is going for $90 shipped (lower I could find). I agree that the HC600 would be a better buy (now that you mentioned it), however, I dont plan on keeping that battery (I want at least the HC2400 for my BTL) so idk how easy it would be to sell that battery later on.

Use a Kinetik battery as a starting battery? I never heard of this, but I saw one review on SonicElectronix that said "Never use audio batteries (kinetiks) as your main battery". Well, now that this point was brought, Is there anything wrong in using a Kinetic (or any audio-designed) battery as your main battery? (Considering S-M-D used 1 of his 10 batteries as the main one, I think the review from Sonic is wrong)

Last question, if I do get a kinetik battery, how would I charge my old one so it comes back to life? New Batt->Dead Batt->Amp?

[slim142 9]

I forgot to ask this question earlier, but did you play the system a lot with the car off, thus sorta draining the battery often?

I think Expeditions should all have at least a 130 amp alternator, which is enough for that system. But most batteries don't take too kindly to being drained too many times.

At the beggining (for like 2 weeks, ~4-5 months ago) when I first got my system, I used to play it with the car off (not that loud), but no more than an hour. One day though, I played it with the car off for 2-3 hours and the battery was dead the next day. Had to use cables and another car to bring it back. After that day, I never played music with the car off. This was like 4 months ago.

~2 weeks ago the car started giving this nasty sound everytime I wanted to start it and it was the battery that was dying.

[mjmarovi 8]

not use a car audio battery as your main starting battery? why cause they are so much better? LOL at sonic.....ideally you want all of your batteries to be the same, so like not to mix kinetiks with batcaps, or powermasters, or nsb's, or optima's, or any other battery. if you have that crap battery up front than your entire system is only as strong as that single battery since it is creating a higher resistance than "car audio" batteries would. I don't think you would struggle selling the hc600, but it seems your present battery isn't dead, and if you plan on adding the capacitor, what I am saying to do is get the battery instead, and use the smaller kinetik batt as a replacement for your starting battery on next vehicle, and then add the 2400 or w/e. I really hate seeing you spend 90 bucks on a cap that may not even solve your present situation (I don't see it doing so, if your alty can't keep present batt charged, it won't be able to keep the cap running with it.) for another 40 bucks you can have something to use in the future, or at least sell for 50-60 bucks easy on re-sale. Hard to sell that rf cap after use....

[slim142 9]

not use a car audio battery as your main starting battery? why cause they are so much better? LOL at sonic.....ideally you want all of your batteries to be the same, so like not to mix kinetiks with batcaps, or powermasters, or nsb's, or optima's, or any other battery. if you have that crap battery up front than your entire system is only as strong as that single battery since it is creating a higher resistance than "car audio" batteries would. I don't think you would struggle selling the hc600, but it seems your present battery isn't dead, and if you plan on adding the capacitor, what I am saying to do is get the battery instead, and use the smaller kinetik batt as a replacement for your starting battery on next vehicle, and then add the 2400 or w/e. I really hate seeing you spend 90 bucks on a cap that may not even solve your present situation (I don't see it doing so, if your alty can't keep present batt charged, it won't be able to keep the cap running with it.) for another 40 bucks you can have something to use in the future, or at least sell for 50-60 bucks easy on re-sale. Hard to sell that rf cap after use....

Here is the thing

I already bought a new main battery and got it installed. Now, the way you talk about caps is scaring me as it does sounds that it might be the worse investment of my life ever lol. At this point, I think I will avoid the capacitor at all cost.

So with my main battery already replaced and $100 in hands to fix my problem, what would you recommend doing?

If I do get the Kinetic HC600

1) I can use it as the audio battery (New batt->kinetik batt->amp) but you say its going to create higher resistance (doesnt sound like a good idea)

or

2) I can replace the battery I just bought with a kinetik one but then, Idk if its worth the hassle. I might be able to get a refund but then how much would it cost to install that kinetik.

Kinda confused here, dont really know what to do.

[mjmarovi 8]

you already replaced the batt? well easy, just get the 600 or 800 and hook it up to help you out now, and then use it in your new system under the hood as your starting battery. don't worry about resistance, all I was saying was that car audio batteries, high-end ones, like kinetiks, xspowermasters, batcaps they have crazy low resistance, and most other batteries, especially your stock type batts have higher resistances and don't charge at same rate which can make them a "crutch" in your electrical system. the two together will work just fine though, especially for what you are running right now....

[slim142 9]

you already replaced the batt? well easy, just get the 600 or 800 and hook it up to help you out now, and then use it in your new system under the hood as your starting battery. don't worry about resistance, all I was saying was that car audio batteries, high-end ones, like kinetiks, xspowermasters, batcaps they have crazy low resistance, and most other batteries, especially your stock type batts have higher resistances and don't charge at same rate which can make them a "crutch" in your electrical system. the two together will work just fine though, especially for what you are running right now....

Oh ok I see now, good to hear I have a solution!

Btw, if I decide to sell it later on, is there any specific place where I can just ask money for it instead of ebaying it or craiglisting it?

Finally, I just found out there is a battery called HC3800. At $500, is it a lot better than the HC2400? Would you recommend it over the HC2400? Is it worth the price?

[mjmarovi 8]

I have checked out the 3800 before, I can tell you that Kinetik work like this....the larger the battery you get, the more amperage and ah you get per dollar.

you can always try the classifieds section on this forum, or classifiedzz.com

[slim142 9]

Glad to hear, but that batt is $500. Pretty pricey.

Dont like the idea of buying it used, but just to get it out of my head, do kinetiks battery have a short life when abused as it would happen with regular batteries? In other words, besides the amps you get and everything, are they worth the time they last?

Also, in a different topic. When S-M-D gives demos to people, I always see him using his bass knobs. Does that mean he puts the bass boost a bit (maybe 50%) and he keeps the knobs all the way off and he just dials them full for demos or am I wrong and he doesnt use bass boost at all?

Finally, as you already know, the BTL is teh first thing im gonna be getting. Is it ok if I build a not-too-big box and use it with my 900watt RMS Sony while I save up for the other parts? Ive heard my entire life that underpowering subs also harm them. Dont know how true this is.

Edited December 5, 2009 by slim142

[KU40 173]

It's not true at all. When your head unit volume is at 5, how much power is going to the subs even with a 5,000 watt amp? Maybe 50 watts? Are they being underpowered and harmed then?

[slim142 9]

It's not true at all. When your head unit volume is at 5, how much power is going to the subs even with a 5,000 watt amp? Maybe 50 watts? Are they being underpowered and harmed then?

Well, a new thing to learn everyday.

I mean, since I saw that comment all around the internet, I thought there couldnt be that many wrong minds out there. I guess I was wrong but at least Im glad I have this place to help me and solve all my questions and inquiries

Now that Im 100% sure no harm is done with underpowering, I cant wait lol

I might give my BTL a try with 900watts then, just to see what it is capable of doing with half the power it asks for. Should be nice

Thanks

Edited December 5, 2009 by slim142

[jcarter1885 995]

I think what might of confused you is if you are underpowering your sub but you try to make your amp produce more power than it has; bringing on clipping and dirty signals which are sent to the subwoofer. But yeah there is no problem with underpowering your subwoofers.

[slim142 9]

I think what might of confused you is if you are underpowering your sub but you try to make your amp produce more power than it has; bringing on clipping and dirty signals which are sent to the subwoofer. But yeah there is no problem with underpowering your subwoofers.

Maybe, but yeah, clipping and dirty signals are a no-no

Btw, guys, I been talking so much about subs and batteries that at this point I have no idea what components are good LOOOL. Is there any specific brand that kicks-ass when it comes to mids and highs? I also plan on upgrading these, dont want to be left out with stock crap haha

[jcarter1885 995]

Honestly it depends on what you like, everyone has a sound preference that differs from others. Your best bet is to go to different car audio shops and test them out and find that ones that suit your sound preferences.

[hatrix 2]

I think what might of confused you is if you are underpowering your sub but you try to make your amp produce more power than it has; bringing on clipping and dirty signals which are sent to the subwoofer. But yeah there is no problem with underpowering your subwoofers.

But that wouldn't matter with an in house receiver would it ? They will shut off automatically.

[kirill007 52]

I think what might of confused you is if you are underpowering your sub but you try to make your amp produce more power than it has; bringing on clipping and dirty signals which are sent to the subwoofer. But yeah there is no problem with underpowering your subwoofers.

But that wouldn't matter with an in house receiver would it ? They will shut off automatically.

Most will shut off when they are already clipping.

[hatrix 2]

Most will shut off when they are already clipping.

So if I run my 700 watt receiver to my 800watt sub it should be ok though right ?

[slim142 9]

Honestly it depends on what you like, everyone has a sound preference that differs from others. Your best bet is to go to different car audio shops and test them out and find that ones that suit your sound preferences.

But honestly, I dont know many audio shops here. If I could get at least some reference, it would be great.

Im leaning towards Kicker so far.

[mjmarovi 8]

Honestly it depends on what you like, everyone has a sound preference that differs from others. Your best bet is to go to different car audio shops and test them out and find that ones that suit your sound preferences.

But honestly, I dont know many audio shops here. If I could get at least some reference, it would be great.

Im leaning towards Kicker so far.

personally not a huge fan of kicker mids/highs, speakers are very personal but I find their performance sub-par.

what kind of budget are you looking at?

MB Quart

Polk

CDT

Hertz

all four of those companies make some great component sets that are relatively inexpensive

spend a bit more and you could be looking at

Diamond Audio

Image Dynamics

Alpine Type X

Pioneer Premier

the list is really quite long for mids/highs try to find a shop or somewhere you can make general comparisons and get an idea of what you want to spend and what kind of sound you like.

what vehicle is it and where do you plan on installing the speakers? amp for them or no?

[slim142 9]

I want something that is not $500 each pair of speakers, but I also want something that gives me quality, are loud and have clarity.

Car not sure yet, will most probably go into a Crossover. Amp? Definitely. I want it loud and want to make sure to block low notes. I dont want the BTLs to cancel out the vocals either.