An intellectual thread

[Fonzi 3]

Lets pose a common question that was once asked by Socrates to many men.

What is Justice?

Should there be seperation of state and authoritive bodies because of unified actions to create injustice upon certain individuals?

You can take this to any level you want to, if no one else replies, I will at the least. Lets try not to be stupid here either. I can be the orator if need be in this conversation too.

[Supa_c 1]

Holy random thread batman !

[mrray13 30]

justice= the righting of a wrong. recieving an appropiate punishment for a wrongful act.

as to the seperation and unified actions to "create injustice"..i don't see it. so no, i don't believe seperation ios necessary. we live in a society where even doing the right thing is often twisted into something wrong. we have too many ppl already sticking their noses into too many places and trying to make a politicaly correct, or perfect, whichever u prefer, world thru their eyes.

because we are human, we are imperfect. no getting around that. so at times, and for the greater good, some injustice will happen. but if we try to eliminate injustice thru seperation, we are only inviting more injustice as those powers will eventually learn to twist the new rules in their favor.

checks and balances...not perfect, but it works.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[dennisp 0]

ahh i did this exact discussion in high school, too bad i dont remember it. im actually glad you made this thread, it's nice to have some brain stimulation every now and then. we should do this more often.

basically, justice is the upholding of what is "just" or fair (an arbitrary term, defined by the law). this means the proper punishment of unjust deeds and the appropriate rewards to just deeds.

[Fonzi 3]

justice= the righting of a wrong. recieving an appropiate punishment for a wrongful act.

as to the seperation and unified actions to "create injustice"..i don't see it. so no, i don't believe seperation ios necessary. we live in a society where even doing the right thing is often twisted into something wrong. we have too many ppl already sticking their noses into too many places and trying to make a politicaly correct, or perfect, whichever u prefer, world thru their eyes.

because we are human, we are imperfect. no getting around that. so at times, and for the greater good, some injustice will happen. but if we try to eliminate injustice thru seperation, we are only inviting more injustice as those powers will eventually learn to twist the new rules in their favor.

checks and balances...not perfect, but it works.

In order to define such a wrongful act you must first define what is "right" and what is "wrong". And lets not say the law is right and wrong, because in some eyes law is nothing more than the advantage of the stonger. Or in some cases it is nothing more then pure oddities, lets take the madman example: A madman is weilding a knife and you dont know his intent and you want to remove the knife from him, but you cant because it is his property and if you do you are breaking a law. So are you righting a wrong by taking the knife from a possible killer, or are you doing the wrong for taking his property? How do you think our common justice system of today would look at such a situation?

As to seperation of the two powered bodies. Injustice is going to be created whether the two bodies are unified or not. But what if the people that uphold our "law" were not swayed by any form of political tieing, what if they where there to stickly uphold the law, and in their eyes they saw no color or no sex, or even worse no money. A good example I can give here is based loosely on a true story, lets take the movie "Man on Fire". Though this is in a different country if the law was seperate from their political system there may not be such cooperation in such hanus crimes, and unfortunatly that was all driven by money. A purely independant justice system would be able to take care of such powerful political figures that participate in such chaotic behavior upon the citizens of their country.

Tell me if you think im going to far off track.

[Fonzi 3]

basically, justice is the upholding of what is "just" or fair (an arbitrary term, defined by the law). this means the proper punishment of unjust deeds and the appropriate rewards to just deeds.

Lets pose the question do people act in a just manner due to fear?

The laws that we have created have put many innocent people in a place they do not belong. People have died on death row that never committed a crime, Rodney King did not deserve what happened to him. It is unjustice brought down upon us by the people we hold with regard to uphold our justice.

A woman was once raped and before the rapist commiteed the sexual act of raping her, the woman asked him to use a condom because of her menstration time arriving. When this was taken to a court of law it was considered consentual because of her asking for the use of the condom. He was unjust, she was trying to make a just action of not having a rapists kids but alas her just deed was not appropriately awarded and his unjust act got him nothing but a insult to his own character.

[dennisp 0]

the world isnt perfect, because as humans we inherently make errors. you're blurring the line between the law and personal morality. sure some of us dont agree with some laws, but for the most part we do. we cant satisfy everyone's definition of "right" and "wrong" and generally base it on majority opinion.

i agree, injustices always occur here and there and there are flaws in the legal system. but in a broader sense, i think the "justice" system follows utilitarianism.

now outside the law, would i consider it just to kill the murderer of someone like my wife? i'd be close to saying yes on that. in the eyes of the law, that would be unjust, but in my eyes i would see it differently.

[Fonzi 3]

"They view justice as a necessary evil, which we allow ourselves to suffer in order to avoid the greater evil that would befall us if we did away with it. Justice stems from human weakness and vulnerability. Since we can all suffer from each other

[dennisp 0]

kinda like that, but i wouldnt refer to justice as evil although some might. it keeps chaos from breaking out and punishes those that commit so-called wrongdoing. it keeps order in a sense.

of course you probably quoted that from some malefactor in history and youre gonna nail me on that

[Fonzi 3]

Im not that mean BUT here is a supporting argument for that, which I do believe is true

"imagine that a just man is given a ring which makes him invisible. Once in possession of this ring, the man can act unjustly with no fear of reprisal. No one can deny, Glaucon claims, that even the most just man would behave unjustly if he had this ring. He would indulge all of his materialistic, power-hungry, and erotically lustful urges. This tale proves that people are only just because they are afraid of punishment for injustice. No one is just because justice is desirable in itself."

I believe that people are not always just by nature, but you may hold some moralistic values or one maybe true to themselves. I also agree with people act justly due to fear of the authoritive body, even though at all times they may not want to. I also believe there is a line where people will ignore justice or just causes due to primalistic nature. Such as the case of someone murdering ones wife, ones pain and haterd is so great that they dont care about the concequenes of their unjust actions, because at this point they do what they feel is right or what maybe moral to oneself.

[dennisp 0]

justice is there for equality. ideally it gives everyone an equal chance in the pursuit of happiness. it stops people from screwing someone else over in their pursuit.

i just made that up, i dunno if it's gonna make sense tomorrow lol.

[Fonzi 3]

Ill get to this tomorrow my mind is shot...lol