First real system, what components?

[socialstealth 0]

* I've used infinity reference coaxils running off of an eclipse EA4100 (75x4), 2 kicker CVR 12' subs running off of a sundown SAE 1200'

* I'd like to spend about $300 used/ebay/craigslist/classifieds for the components (I have more money set aside for sundown amps to run them)

* car = Mazda Protege 2002 Sedan

* Never heard any other products, I don't seem to have any good car audio shops near me...

* Musical preferences = Rock, screamo, metal, things like senses fail, a day to remember, things with a lot of fast drums/bass guitar.

* Its a daily system, I'd like to be able to FEEL the vibrations resonate in my chest, I don't care how loud the bass gets as long as I can FEEL it, after thats acomplished i'd like some amazingly loud/clean midbass and highs

* Originally I wanted a low budget system, which explains my kicker CVR's and infinity references. But they have left me wanting more.

Right now I have JL audio vr 690 evolutions in my rear, but I'm planning on going 'active' with sundown amp(s). Are their crossovers good enough to go active with?

So I'll be removing my rear speakers.

What tweeters // midbass drivers would you guys recommend for me?

For an upgraded sub, I've been thinking of buying a 15'' DC lvl 4 to run off my SAZ 1500 (I already have an SAZ1500). Or a sundown Z15. though I'm open to suggestoins...

400$ budget range for the sub, though less money is great too

[lithium 358]

yep you can do active w/ sounddown amps. id recommend you get processing at the headunit tho, its much easier to opporate when its up front w/ you, and my active hu's have extra features like TA and eq which the sundown amps dont have. but either way is still way better then running shitty passives imo

something like some mach 5 mli's for mids, sold right here at ssa, which you could pair up with some nice tweets. i believe they recommend a seas' tweeter. that is just 1 example of what you could run. theres so many possibilities for speaks selection out there... your gona have to budget some for sound deaden, as well, to get good midbass out of your doors.

i cant recommend a sub. check some reviews out in the review section maybe...

just to add: dont buy components then run them active, buy diy drivers like recommended, way more bang for your buck this way. check out partsexpress.com and madisound.com

Edited September 19, 2009 by lithium

[vladd 26]

Excellent post, thanks for taking the time to actually list what we need to know, but...where are you located? There may be some members close to you with nice frontstages.

Do you want a set of components or do you want to make a set yourself (in my opinion you get WAY more for your money this way)

Sundowns have great xovers IIRC and are more than versatile enough to go active. That being said, I would never personally do it. Adjusting a crossover from the amp is much harder than it sounds, having your crossover control at your fingertips while siting in the listening position is essential for me.

Tweets: Where are they going? Stock location, are you going to make pillars? what size speakers fit? Any pics of the stock mounting locations?

Mids: I'd go 7" here if at all possible, unless you can fit 8s, heh. Speakers to look at....

check www.partsexpress.com or www.madisound.com for DIY drivers and www.zaphaudio.com for a bunch of tests on speakers

I dont' listen to a lot of metal so I can't really recommend speakers, I can say that if you're going to be chasing quick tight bass you may want to look at running one or two subs sealed (two to increase the output to your liking). I can tell you that I ran a 15" Q sealed off a 1500d and was beyond happy with the results, it could easily drown out my frontstage if I wanted it to but it was also extremely accurate.

edit: crap lithium was way ahead of me, i type too slow

[REVpuggie 23]

look into the components from hybrid audio ...great stuff !!!

[socialstealth 0]

I'm from south jersey, about 30 minutes away from philly.

I'm planning on fiber glassing a custom interior for my car; so I can mount them practically anywhere. Where would the best position be?

I really can't decide whether I want to go sealed or ported with my sub...

A lot of people say ported will be 'sloppy' with fast bass, while others say it wont be sloppy in a ported box thats built "right"

Any input on this matter?

[vladd 26]

sealed vs ported is simply personal preference. I've heard/built good low tuned boxes and they always sound good, they just don't sound like I want them to. Every ported box i've ever ran has always at some point been replaced with a sealed setup.

Hybrid audio is great, but not even close to his budget

The absolute best mounting position for ANY speaker is 3" left of the holy grail....good luck on your search. The only way to properly aim speakers is to get it all wired up and listen to them in their places, wadded up towels seems to work well behind the speakers. Listen..adjust, listen adjust listen adjust....it should take a long time if you're doing it right.

[socialstealth 0]

sealed vs ported is simply personal preference. I've heard/built good low tuned boxes and they always sound good, they just don't sound like I want them to. Every ported box i've ever ran has always at some point been replaced with a sealed setup.

Hybrid audio is great, but not even close to his budget

The absolute best mounting position for ANY speaker is 3" left of the holy grail....good luck on your search. The only way to properly aim speakers is to get it all wired up and listen to them in their places, wadded up towels seems to work well behind the speakers. Listen..adjust, listen adjust listen adjust....it should take a long time if you're doing it right.

Sorry but whats the holy grail your referring to?

Whats generally some good suggestions for positioning and aiming, should I aim them at me? I see some setups where people aim them at the window shield and other places. Seeing as I'm planning on customizing my interior, should I put the tweet on the dash? next to the midbass driver? on the A pillar?

[vladd 26]

the holy grail....jesus's pimp glass from his last supper. I meant there is no right answer, it depends on your install.

mounting/aiming is almost 100% dependent on YOUR install, not your car, not your drivers, EVERYTHING.

if you want to come close, try to get all the speakers the same distance from your ears, pointing towards you may work...but it may not (i usually don't like tweets aimed directly at me, i like window reflecting tweets, you may be like 99% of people and prefer them firing across the windshield).

Get everything ready, wire up drivers and listen, or guess and hope for the best.

[lithium 358]

the holy grail....jesus's pimp glass from his last supper. I meant there is no right answer, it depends on your install.

mounting/aiming is almost 100% dependent on YOUR install, not your car, not your drivers, EVERYTHING.

if you want to come close, try to get all the speakers the same distance from your ears, pointing towards you may work...but it may not (i usually don't like tweets aimed directly at me, i like window reflecting tweets, you may be like 99% of people and prefer them firing across the windshield).

Get everything ready, wire up drivers and listen, or guess and hope for the best.

velcro is your friend

right now i have a 3" mid point source in each pillar on axis and it sounds pretty good for 10 bucks a piece. its not harsh at all, unless i put in some terribly recorded music...

Edited September 19, 2009 by lithium

[lithium 358]

for your music preference, your gona want A HELL OF A LOT of midbass up front with you. i listen to some of the same kind of music. however with that amount of power in substage its gona be difficult to get output from the midbasses to keep up... especially if u cant get an 8 incher up front at least....

i have peerless sls 8s in my doors, personally if i didnt listen to rap from time to time id be subless right now...

the whole ported vs sealed thing seems to depend on the sub itself, the car its put in, and the install.... so we really cant pick for you here, u have to figure that one out through testing...

[socialstealth 0]

for your music preference, your gona want A HELL OF A LOT of midbass up front with you. i listen to some of the same kind of music. however with that amount of power in substage its gona be difficult to get output from the midbasses to keep up... especially if u cant get an 8 incher up front at least....

i have peerless sls 8s in my doors, personally if i didnt listen to rap from time to time id be subless right now...

the whole ported vs sealed thing seems to depend on the sub itself, the car its put in, and the install.... so we really cant pick for you here, u have to figure that one out through testing...

Well I'm custom molding my doors so I can fit any size speaker in there. One problem I might have however is the amount of door enclosure space, If I get a 8'' midbass driver, should i sort of make a sealed box for it inside the door?

Should I go bigger than 8'' ? any suggestions on which driver for midbass I should get?

[socialstealth 0]

heh....I have the old 12'' kicker CVR's, the single coil ones, I have 2 of them.....

Do you think I could use them as midbass drivers in my doors

I've been trying to sell them but no one wants them because they're the older models. They're in good condition so it would be great to get some use out of them

crutchfield says the kicker subs have a frequency response of 25-500 hz, and they say mid bass is 100>500 hz

Would it be a good idea to use 12'' subs in my door, or is that retarded? most tweeters I've seen cut off at around 2000 hz, so would I need a mid-high driver for 500-2000 hz?

Edited September 20, 2009 by socialstealth

[socialstealth 0]

What exactly are horns and are they better than tweeters?

[///M5 2,833]

Hornsy are louder, doesn't mean better. Hard to implement though as they require a lot of consideration in mounting and usually need some serious eq work.

If you are using your amps as crossovers you are going to need to try harder on the mounting locations as you'll have less processing available and more would kill your budget really fast. For this fitting everything in the kicks is probably your best option, but depends on your car. Basically try to get both speakers equal distance away from you and as far in front of you as possible.

Driver options are hard to list as there are hundreds, but once you pick your mounting locations and really nail down implementation it will get easier.

And to your question on an 8 in the door, I'd encourage you to run midbasses IB or as close as possible as you won't have to go through the build multiple enclosures to find the ideal size.

[lithium 358]

dont put the kickers in your door, sell them off... even if its only like 50 bucks a piece, which would be plenty to put in some nice 8 or 10 inch midbasses. i would recommend ib aswell.

also i would recommend doing a 2 way vs a 3 way to keep thinks more simple. so since a tweeter wont get low enough to play with a dedicated midbass id recommend you use a fullrange driver mounted in the kicks or a-piller.

[socialstealth 0]

dont put the kickers in your door, sell them off... even if its only like 50 bucks a piece, which would be plenty to put in some nice 8 or 10 inch midbasses. i would recommend ib aswell.

also i would recommend doing a 2 way vs a 3 way to keep thinks more simple. so since a tweeter wont get low enough to play with a dedicated midbass id recommend you use a fullrange driver mounted in the kicks or a-piller.

I have a pair of 6x9 JL evolution vr690ci coaxials, Should I custom fit them into my door as a bidbass driver? or did you mean something else when you said 'full range driver'.

as a 'general recommendation', your saying I should probably put the tweeter next to the midbass driver in the door and face it toward me? Where do people usually put them when they face them toward the window shield?

do you think a sundown amp is not 'sufficient' enough to go active with?

My headunit has some crossovers on it, should I use the hu crossover AND the amp's crossovers ? or is it a one or the other type thing like EQ (i've heard you should only boost EQ options with 1 source, not have bass boost on hu, and amp etc)

[vladd 26]

Don't use bass boost at all. You can eq on multiple sources, it just multiplies the difficulty as well (and usually redundant).

Dash mountain can be in the a-pillar firing towards you, in the dash reflecting against the windshield, or even in the a-pillar firing across the windshield (more towards each other, not you).

don't bother with the 6x9, get a good 7 or 8 in your door. Full range is a type of driver that will play most everything from a few hundred hz up ( http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=45_241 )

by no means is this even your "best" option, but just one I am throwing together quickly

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1386

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_282&products_id=8585

Where I differ from the other opinions is I personally wouldn't go 2-way with an 8" driver, but that's just personal preference.

[///M5 2,833]

I'd only do a 2 way with an 8" if I had a driver to mate with it that could play down to 500Hz or so, or if the OP was willing to make the compromise of losing a little in the transition. An 8"er as a midrange isn't a good choice, but getting midbass out of a 7" at chest pounding levels isn't going to happen either.

[socialstealth 0]

I want to be able to feel the music INSIDE me!

Bands like senses fail, rise against, devil wears prada, Thursday, from first to last, the used, my chemical romance, system of a down, armor for sleep, sky eats airplane, alesana, escape the fate, a day to remember, breaking benjamin, and a few lighter pop things like mayday parade, all time low, metro station, panic at the disco, etc.

Those are the top bands I listen to. What kind of setup do you guys think would suit me?

I have a kenwood excelon kdc x790 headunit.

And a sundown SAE 1200 amp.

I'm going to fiberglass new door panels and a new dash, so anything will fit.

Looking to spend as little as possible, I'd put the max at $1000, but less is more. And I'm willing to buy things used.

I'm starting to rethink the sub idea, maybe the DC lvl 4 is a bit overkill for my application.

What do you guys think?