might of found me a sub....

[porkchop 304]

Can you explain in any more detail on what they stole? Curious as I thought they looked like a quality built product.

I've talked with PAP personally, they seem like an OK group. Their Canada Rep stole some of my photos/specs/powertesting/ect so I contacted the company directly. the fella I talked with seemed nice enough. if the price tag was smaller I'd like to give them a try.

never seen these in person...

dam, sorry to hear that part of it, i got the sub for $200 bucks so i guess we will see.

new avatar, did not reconize you lol.

Chop

[visitor 3]

okay, i am going to have the money sent out for it tomorrow..... i have the subs t/s info, is there a method to knowing what enclosure specs it would like?

i am guessing i need like a program or something..... i would like to learn how you guys come up with the specs.... but if you have info toward the enclosure requirments , i am all ears.........

hey ///M5! it is cool that you are sagacious, it helps us allout around here.

Please dont. After they stole a design of mine to use themselves, tried to lie their way out of it I called it quits. Also- from an actual product standpoint- Look at the spider set up. its one spider, dipped in resin. these start to sag VERY quickly. ask terra how the line of subs he had built for him are working out they are a bunch of lying thieves who "build speakers" from a shed in there backyard. Im asking you honestly- PLEASE look elsewhere.

Can you explain in any more detail on what they stole? Curious as I thought they looked like a quality built product.

Long story short- I went to pap with a design I wanted built, gave them the specs, etc. They were very nice to me. I ran into some family issues making me unable to proceed with it. Terra (owner of cascade audio, and a friend) then approached me asking if I could use the design, I agreed, but by then it was to late... PAP already had taken the design (down to the "t", as i believe the expression goes) and started production on it as "the new WMD!"". Now, it isnt the greatest design, or even anything super special, really, however, it is beyond low class to steal a design. simple as that. And then you have another poster claim they stole pics/powder coating from him.. it just gets longer! Why would ANYONE buy from them?? (to the op- I am NOT attacking you. I sincerely hope this woofer is what you are looking for, and treats you well, leaves you satisfied!)

Also- these come from Terra, and you certianly don't have to believe me on them, but here is some of the issues with his line of speakers (built by pap)

1. He offered 2 choices of colors for frames- purple and green, iirc. "somehow" other pap customers seemed to be getting these colored frames, even though there was an agreement between pap and cascade that would not be happening.

2. Dust Caps folding. PAP used cheap thin cardboard caps on the omega's.. A high percentage of them have creased the caps, or even blown them completely off.

3. Aforementioned spider sag.

4. breach of confidentiality. PAP posted pics of them building the omega's. This was a problem as (and I think most build houses do or have this) there was an agreement that pap would of course NOT post who they built for, or what lines they built for them. In case that brand owner/representative did not want this disclosed. (I'm pretty sure Terra didn't..)

5. parts availability- PAP wanted blown omega's sent to them to be reconed vs. selling Terra the recones. now, this seems like less of a headache for Terra, but see above about confidentiality.. Notice how cascades never get reconed by Terra.. ya.. there is a reason. no parts.

I'm sure there is more, but I either do not know it, or cannot think of it ATM. Again-OP best of luck, i really mean that. I hope its a great sub, it sure looks pretty.

Also- this is just a random thought- that WMD they sell for 700 bucks (or whatever it was) was to be sold to me at around 325 each (and even at that level they make a nice profit I'm sure!) Quite a markup!

Lord Baccus for a spokesman really doesnt help either... unless you are marketing to the inbred hillbilly crowd:p

[mwoehr 1]

founf a Pierce Audio sub ,the WMD2R 15"

2009 WMD215R D1 T/S parameters in series :

FS 25 hz

Qms 4.3

Vas 3.7 cft

mms 368 g

re 2 ohms

Qes .52

SPL 87 db SPL 1w/1m

pdia 330.2 mm

Qts .46

Le 1.2

BL 15

so, i can get this for $200 bucks, i have a saz 3000d on hand, what do you think?

there are a couple of you out there i really would like to hear from, want lots of input fellars, poor man doesnt want to go wrong.

Thanks Chop

That's a pretty good price for that sub. PAP makes good quality subs. The WMD2's are impressive subs. I doubt you fall in the poor man category of if you were able to afford a SAZ3000d, those aren't cheap amps lol. If you could spend more I'd strongly suggest a Sundown Audio Nightshade.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Jysoe

[porkchop 304]

okay, i am going to have the money sent out for it tomorrow..... i have the subs t/s info, is there a method to knowing what enclosure specs it would like?

i am guessing i need like a program or something..... i would like to learn how you guys come up with the specs.... but if you have info toward the enclosure requirments , i am all ears.........

hey ///M5! it is cool that you are sagacious, it helps us allout around here.

Please dont. After they stole a design of mine to use themselves, tried to lie their way out of it I called it quits. Also- from an actual product standpoint- Look at the spider set up. its one spider, dipped in resin. these start to sag VERY quickly. ask terra how the line of subs he had built for him are working out they are a bunch of lying thieves who "build speakers" from a shed in there backyard. Im asking you honestly- PLEASE look elsewhere.

Can you explain in any more detail on what they stole? Curious as I thought they looked like a quality built product.

Long story short- I went to pap with a design I wanted built, gave them the specs, etc. They were very nice to me. I ran into some family issues making me unable to proceed with it. Terra (owner of cascade audio, and a friend) then approached me asking if I could use the design, I agreed, but by then it was to late... PAP already had taken the design (down to the "t", as i believe the expression goes) and started production on it as "the new WMD!"". Now, it isnt the greatest design, or even anything super special, really, however, it is beyond low class to steal a design. simple as that. And then you have another poster claim they stole pics/powder coating from him.. it just gets longer! Why would ANYONE buy from them?? (to the op- I am NOT attacking you. I sincerely hope this woofer is what you are looking for, and treats you well, leaves you satisfied!)

Also- these come from Terra, and you certianly don't have to believe me on them, but here is some of the issues with his line of speakers (built by pap)

1. He offered 2 choices of colors for frames- purple and green, iirc. "somehow" other pap customers seemed to be getting these colored frames, even though there was an agreement between pap and cascade that would not be happening.

2. Dust Caps folding. PAP used cheap thin cardboard caps on the omega's.. A high percentage of them have creased the caps, or even blown them completely off.

3. Aforementioned spider sag.

4. breach of confidentiality. PAP posted pics of them building the omega's. This was a problem as (and I think most build houses do or have this) there was an agreement that pap would of course NOT post who they built for, or what lines they built for them. In case that brand owner/representative did not want this disclosed. (I'm pretty sure Terra didn't..)

5. parts availability- PAP wanted blown omega's sent to them to be reconed vs. selling Terra the recones. now, this seems like less of a headache for Terra, but see above about confidentiality.. Notice how cascades never get reconed by Terra.. ya.. there is a reason. no parts.

I'm sure there is more, but I either do not know it, or cannot think of it ATM. Again-OP best of luck, i really mean that. I hope its a great sub, it sure looks pretty.

Also- this is just a random thought- that WMD they sell for 700 bucks (or whatever it was) was to be sold to me at around 325 each (and even at that level they make a nice profit I'm sure!) Quite a markup!

Lord Baccus for a spokesman really doesnt help either... unless you are marketing to the inbred hillbilly crowd:p

dang , sorry visitor, like i said, this probably boils down to the one fact that i can offer you for comfort, i am not buying it from them, so there for no sale for them, no profit! i will not leave your story untold, but i really am hoping that the sub does well for me! even at $200 bucks i have high hopes for it. you mentioned that it was your design "down to a t" , and you had said that it had the " spider sag".... i have no idea what that ruly means but, is this something that failed in your design? do you know of a fix for it? how does this effect a sub? i see folks rebuilding subs alot, could someone rebuild this one if needed? just curious.

thanks chop

[porkchop 304]

founf a Pierce Audio sub ,the WMD2R 15"

2009 WMD215R D1 T/S parameters in series :

FS 25 hz

Qms 4.3

Vas 3.7 cft

mms 368 g

re 2 ohms

Qes .52

SPL 87 db SPL 1w/1m

pdia 330.2 mm

Qts .46

Le 1.2

BL 15

so, i can get this for $200 bucks, i have a saz 3000d on hand, what do you think?

there are a couple of you out there i really would like to hear from, want lots of input fellars, poor man doesnt want to go wrong.

Thanks Chop

That's a pretty good price for that sub. PAP makes good quality subs. The WMD2's are impressive subs. I doubt you fall in the poor man category of if you were able to afford a SAZ3000d, those aren't cheap amps lol. If you could spend more I'd strongly suggest a Sundown Audio Nightshade.

buddy, i sent you a pm....you need to take a look in the sundown thread......i am so deep in the "poor man catergory" i am the 'super moderator of it' !!! ....lmao..... so broke i can't pay attention.

[visitor 3]

okay, i am going to have the money sent out for it tomorrow..... i have the subs t/s info, is there a method to knowing what enclosure specs it would like?

i am guessing i need like a program or something..... i would like to learn how you guys come up with the specs.... but if you have info toward the enclosure requirments , i am all ears.........

hey ///M5! it is cool that you are sagacious, it helps us allout around here.

Please dont. After they stole a design of mine to use themselves, tried to lie their way out of it I called it quits. Also- from an actual product standpoint- Look at the spider set up. its one spider, dipped in resin. these start to sag VERY quickly. ask terra how the line of subs he had built for him are working out they are a bunch of lying thieves who "build speakers" from a shed in there backyard. Im asking you honestly- PLEASE look elsewhere.

Can you explain in any more detail on what they stole? Curious as I thought they looked like a quality built product.

Long story short- I went to pap with a design I wanted built, gave them the specs, etc. They were very nice to me. I ran into some family issues making me unable to proceed with it. Terra (owner of cascade audio, and a friend) then approached me asking if I could use the design, I agreed, but by then it was to late... PAP already had taken the design (down to the "t", as i believe the expression goes) and started production on it as "the new WMD!"". Now, it isnt the greatest design, or even anything super special, really, however, it is beyond low class to steal a design. simple as that. And then you have another poster claim they stole pics/powder coating from him.. it just gets longer! Why would ANYONE buy from them?? (to the op- I am NOT attacking you. I sincerely hope this woofer is what you are looking for, and treats you well, leaves you satisfied!)

Also- these come from Terra, and you certianly don't have to believe me on them, but here is some of the issues with his line of speakers (built by pap)

1. He offered 2 choices of colors for frames- purple and green, iirc. "somehow" other pap customers seemed to be getting these colored frames, even though there was an agreement between pap and cascade that would not be happening.

2. Dust Caps folding. PAP used cheap thin cardboard caps on the omega's.. A high percentage of them have creased the caps, or even blown them completely off.

3. Aforementioned spider sag.

4. breach of confidentiality. PAP posted pics of them building the omega's. This was a problem as (and I think most build houses do or have this) there was an agreement that pap would of course NOT post who they built for, or what lines they built for them. In case that brand owner/representative did not want this disclosed. (I'm pretty sure Terra didn't..)

5. parts availability- PAP wanted blown omega's sent to them to be reconed vs. selling Terra the recones. now, this seems like less of a headache for Terra, but see above about confidentiality.. Notice how cascades never get reconed by Terra.. ya.. there is a reason. no parts.

I'm sure there is more, but I either do not know it, or cannot think of it ATM. Again-OP best of luck, i really mean that. I hope its a great sub, it sure looks pretty.

Also- this is just a random thought- that WMD they sell for 700 bucks (or whatever it was) was to be sold to me at around 325 each (and even at that level they make a nice profit I'm sure!) Quite a markup!

Lord Baccus for a spokesman really doesnt help either... unless you are marketing to the inbred hillbilly crowd:p

dang , sorry visitor, like i said, this probably boils down to the one fact that i can offer you for comfort, i am not buying it from them, so there for no sale for them, no profit! i will not leave your story untold, but i really am hoping that the sub does well for me! even at $200 bucks i have high hopes for it. you mentioned that it was your design "down to a t" , and you had said that it had the " spider sag".... i have no idea what that ruly means but, is this something that failed in your design? do you know of a fix for it? how does this effect a sub? i see folks rebuilding subs alot, could someone rebuild this one if needed? just curious.

thanks chop

sure man, I hope it does awesome for ya! I wasnt referring to just my design having a spider sag, as all paps seem to exibit this trait after time. Sure it could be reconed, (rebuilt as you said) but I wouldnt until it failed! save your cash for the moment! Im very sure fi could hook you up with a recone in the event that your breaks (again, I hope that doesnt happen!) I know there are others out there as well offering recone service! (and of course, pap can recone it if it fails, if you are inclined to go that way!)

[porkchop 304]

hey visitor! if this does happen.......recone..........does one sorta upgrade the sub from there or does that take it back to original?

just curious , thanks, chop.

[porkchop 304]

sub arrived, opened box, looked at it, ...................nice, stuck it on dresser, and left.

sucks not to get excited about it, perhaps this weekend things will get back to normal, after 'lil man' gets home.

[lithium 358]

hey visitor! if this does happen.......recone..........does one sorta upgrade the sub from there or does that take it back to original?

just curious , thanks, chop.

a recone is just a new soft part assembly for the sub, which would include the spider, vc, and cone. depending on where you get it from it could change the sub, if you get it from the manufacturer it would would be just like new, if your got it from someone else like Fi then it could/would be alittle different.

[porkchop 304]