Searching for subwoofers

[abmoore 8]

I am interested in buying a subwoofer or two for my new daily driver system. They will be powered by a US Amps AX3200de with all proper electrical requirements. I have a 2004 Chevy Tahoe and box size is no concern to me. I also am installing some second skin damplifier this weekend along with an arc audio fd4150 and two pairs of eclipse sc8365s. I am interested in having a SQ system with a lot of output (I am settling with the door speakers I have for now, heard they are not the best for quality). I listen to a wide array of music but mostly southern rap, metal, trance, and blues. Also, if possible, I love deep, low bass so don't hessitate to recommend a subwoofer with that quality. My price range is adjustable since I don't like to rush into big decisions so hopefully the cash would accumulate (also if I could sell the four ED 13AV.2s I have sitting in my closet, reason I am scared of compulsive buying now, heard they are not quality drivers with a bad frequency response range). I have had many sizes of subwoofers and don't care if small or large. Hope this was a quality description being that it is only my second post.

By the way, are EDs really that bad or should I give them a chance. There are so many mixed opinions. Some of the other choices i have been considering are the audiopulse axis or lms ultra, DC sounds (not sure which level), RE audio XXX's, RD alphas, XCON, and the Critical Mass UL12 (I wish).

Thank you!

[ppiflat10s 3]

never heard their subs in person, but theres plenty of people who are happy with their stuff (not here though it seems). Ive also owned a Nine.2x and a NINe.1 and thought they were both great amps and only reason I dont have them is money problems both times.

in all honesty I wouldnt think the price you could get for them would drop much further if they were barely used but looked brand new vs unused looking brand new. Im not sure but Im guessing the warranty on them isnt transferable. so it wouldnt hurt to try them out.

[///M5 2,833]

If you truly want an SQ system with a lot of output you need to change your front speakers first. Next will come dampening, then foam, then an MLV or lead layer. Next thing to pick is processing. What you have now won't cut it. Based on those steps you can pick your front stage. After all that is said and done you can then start to discuss subs, until then it is pointless if you truly want an SQ system.

[abmoore 8]

If you truly want an SQ system with a lot of output you need to change your front speakers first. Next will come dampening, then foam, then an MLV or lead layer. Next thing to pick is processing. What you have now won't cut it. Based on those steps you can pick your front stage. After all that is said and done you can then start to discuss subs, until then it is pointless if you truly want an SQ system.

I guess what I am going for is more of a subjective sq/spl system, tweaked more to the low end, not necessarily a flat response. Sorry, everyone describes it differently. I was too vague and I do not know exactly how to voice it without adding SPL to the description. Also I have a Pioneer DEH-p800prs and might purchase my friend's Audiocontrol dqs if that would be a good decision. I am installing a few of the second skin products in the next couple of weeks too, starting with the damplifier this weekend.

As for the front stage, will the three way eclipses not cut it even with the processing I will have? I was hoping to eventually save up for some Focal K2s or Morel Supremos (They both sounded great too me, leaning more towards the supremos). I also have the eclipses for the rear or would you suggest something different, like a simple rear fill, as opposed to the three ways?

[Kanaworm$ 292]

If you truly want an SQ system with a lot of output you need to change your front speakers first. Next will come dampening, then foam, then an MLV or lead layer. Next thing to pick is processing. What you have now won't cut it. Based on those steps you can pick your front stage. After all that is said and done you can then start to discuss subs, until then it is pointless if you truly want an SQ system.

I guess what I am going for is more of a subjective sq/spl system, tweaked more to the low end, not necessarily a flat response. Sorry, everyone describes it differently. I was too vague and I do not know exactly how to voice it without adding SPL to the description. Also I have a Pioneer DEH-p800prs and might purchase my friend's Audiocontrol dqs if that would be a good decision. I am installing a few of the second skin products in the next couple of weeks too, starting with the damplifier this weekend.

As for the front stage, will the three way eclipses not cut it even with the processing I will have? I was hoping to eventually save up for some Focal K2s or Morel Supremos (They both sounded great too me, leaning more towards the supremos). I also have the eclipses for the rear or would you suggest something different, like a simple rear fill, as opposed to the three ways?

Your 800PRS will have all the processing you will need with the advantage of being able to go active with all the control at your fingertips.

Kill the rear fill idea! Not needed and it will just degrade from your front stage.

[abmoore 8]

If you truly want an SQ system with a lot of output you need to change your front speakers first. Next will come dampening, then foam, then an MLV or lead layer. Next thing to pick is processing. What you have now won't cut it. Based on those steps you can pick your front stage. After all that is said and done you can then start to discuss subs, until then it is pointless if you truly want an SQ system.

I guess what I am going for is more of a subjective sq/spl system, tweaked more to the low end, not necessarily a flat response. Sorry, everyone describes it differently. I was too vague and I do not know exactly how to voice it without adding SPL to the description. Also I have a Pioneer DEH-p800prs and might purchase my friend's Audiocontrol dqs if that would be a good decision. I am installing a few of the second skin products in the next couple of weeks too, starting with the damplifier this weekend.

As for the front stage, will the three way eclipses not cut it even with the processing I will have? I was hoping to eventually save up for some Focal K2s or Morel Supremos (They both sounded great too me, leaning more towards the supremos). I also have the eclipses for the rear or would you suggest something different, like a simple rear fill, as opposed to the three ways?

Your 800PRS will have all the processing you will need with the advantage of being able to go active with all the control at your fingertips.

Kill the rear fill idea! Not needed and it will just degrade from your front stage.

So I will not need rear speakers, even in a vehicle that size and with a system that will be geared more towards low end output? And what type/ when should I get my subwoofers?

Oh, and thanks. I was wondering whether I should go active or not with that source unit or just use the DQS. Helped me save a little money!

[///M5 2,833]

If you truly want an SQ system with a lot of output you need to change your front speakers first. Next will come dampening, then foam, then an MLV or lead layer. Next thing to pick is processing. What you have now won't cut it. Based on those steps you can pick your front stage. After all that is said and done you can then start to discuss subs, until then it is pointless if you truly want an SQ system.

I guess what I am going for is more of a subjective sq/spl system, tweaked more to the low end, not necessarily a flat response. Sorry, everyone describes it differently. I was too vague and I do not know exactly how to voice it without adding SPL to the description. Also I have a Pioneer DEH-p800prs and might purchase my friend's Audiocontrol dqs if that would be a good decision. I am installing a few of the second skin products in the next couple of weeks too, starting with the damplifier this weekend.

As for the front stage, will the three way eclipses not cut it even with the processing I will have? I was hoping to eventually save up for some Focal K2s or Morel Supremos (They both sounded great too me, leaning more towards the supremos). I also have the eclipses for the rear or would you suggest something different, like a simple rear fill, as opposed to the three ways?

The 800 will not do a 3 way front stage actively. Your other choices are also passive components which make no sense to buy and then run active. Way better bang for the buck available. Rears are pointless in a vehicle IMO as well. Lastly, I wouldn't bother with the 2nd skin instead shop at SDS. There is a link in my sig. Instead of giving you bad advice based on marketing propaganda, Don will actually help you only buy what you need. If you want further help, don't hesitate to make a thread as there are many of us who would be glad to pipe in on the deadening side of things.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

In most cases, go active from the head unit. My PRS880 did very well active, and I preferred having the controls on the head unit, then having them on a secondary unit or amp. Part of the confusion here is you want a sound quality system and what big time output. What many of the experienced members and/or industry people here will tell you is having a balanced system is the direction to head towards for a goal of sound quality. What you are after sounds like you want something loud that does not sound bad, but not technically a sound quality system.

I know a few people did not understand on one of my prior installs, where I was running a 2-way active and single sub install, and I had more power going to my mids and highs then my sub. What confused people even more was that the output was much more then expected.

Part of the issue about rear-fill, is that if you are using such a big amp, and want to use higher output drivers, is that during normal play, 9 times out of 10, it will be just you in the car listening to your music. So think about it for a moment, when you see live music, the sound comes from in front of you, not behind you. And this is your money, your system, it is not meant to entertain rear seat passengers. At least that is how I see it, along with a few other people on here.

Anyway, you mention about saving some cash. I suggest running a quality 2-way active front stage with the crossover points and slopes set on the head unit, being powered by a quality 4-channel amplifier. Then have your AX amp, and sub(s). As for subs, yes I am a little biased, but I will refrain from speaking on eD and RD, as there are plenty of people who know better. The prior generation RE XXX were a very good driver, they still fetch big time money used. I look forward to test the newer model. As for the CM driver, it make be quite capable, but I have not seen someone justify the pricing of them. So that should explain my lean towards the Xcon, but I am biased, and for good reason.

Anyway, let's address you entire set up and not just the sub woofer. This is the difference between the SSA forum and all the other pretender forums.

[abmoore 8]

In most cases, go active from the head unit. My PRS880 did very well active, and I preferred having the controls on the head unit, then having them on a secondary unit or amp. Part of the confusion here is you want a sound quality system and what big time output. What many of the experienced members and/or industry people here will tell you is having a balanced system is the direction to head towards for a goal of sound quality. What you are after sounds like you want something loud that does not sound bad, but not technically a sound quality system.

I know a few people did not understand on one of my prior installs, where I was running a 2-way active and single sub install, and I had more power going to my mids and highs then my sub. What confused people even more was that the output was much more then expected.

Part of the issue about rear-fill, is that if you are using such a big amp, and want to use higher output drivers, is that during normal play, 9 times out of 10, it will be just you in the car listening to your music. So think about it for a moment, when you see live music, the sound comes from in front of you, not behind you. And this is your money, your system, it is not meant to entertain rear seat passengers. At least that is how I see it, along with a few other people on here.

Anyway, you mention about saving some cash. I suggest running a quality 2-way active front stage with the crossover points and slopes set on the head unit, being powered by a quality 4-channel amplifier. Then have your AX amp, and sub(s). As for subs, yes I am a little biased, but I will refrain from speaking on eD and RD, as there are plenty of people who know better. The prior generation RE XXX were a very good driver, they still fetch big time money used. I look forward to test the newer model. As for the CM driver, it make be quite capable, but I have not seen someone justify the pricing of them. So that should explain my lean towards the Xcon, but I am biased, and for good reason.

Anyway, let's address you entire set up and not just the sub woofer. This is the difference between the SSA forum and all the other pretender forums.

I think you are right in saying I want something loud that sounds good, not necessarily SQ, but can also be somewhat close to reproducing the artist's intentions if I would like. The only thing is that I do tend to have people riding with me, and although it is my money, I would like to share the experience somewhat. But I am looking into some higher quality components, Dynaudio Esotec 242s maybe. Any other suggestions would be great and money really shoudn't be a huge problem, just not willing to throw it away (I have been hearing a lot of good things about seas, never heard them in person though, opinions?).

Back to the subs, I have to the chance to get 3 IDMAX 12V3 D2s for a good price right now, which I would run at 1.33 Ohms. I previously had a FI Audio Q 18, not sure if the 12 is much better, the 18 tended to a little slow and lacked response above around 60Hz or so and was not that authoritative with the lows (pretty sure that was box design and my NINe.1 that seemed to have tuning issues). Also, what are your opinions on the audiopulse subs, axis and lms? I also have never heard the XCON but have read good things. How would they compare?

And let me know if that is more of a VS. thread, I guess I could start that.

[lithium 358]

when i got friends riding with me, they can hear the music just fine from back seat w/o the rear fill.

Edited September 19, 2009 by lithium

[pipes 1]

I'd go with the IDMAx 12s if you have a good deal on them. I ran 4 IDMAX 10v3s and they were perfect for what my understanding of your goal is.... the ability to get loud but sound great doing it (and if you turn down the non-fader then they blend excellently too) They're really great subs

[///M5 2,833]

I previously had a FI Audio Q 18, not sure if the 12 is much better, the 18 tended to a little slow and lacked response above around 60Hz or so and was not that authoritative with the lows (pretty sure that was box design and my NINe.1 that seemed to have tuning issues).

Definitely your box.

[Notorious97200 339]

You already have a good head unit, just take a good set of speakers for front.

Your passengers in the back will hear them clearly. Rear speakers would not be a good idea, even in rear doors.

You can run active to take advantage of your 4 channels amp, but don't buy a component set with passive filters.

For sub, I love the Xcon!!! One 15" on 1500 watts with a good ported box should pleased you!!! If you have money and room, go with 2 Xcons, that would be a killer system!!!

[Quick_Kid 0]

go with fi or sundown