H/O Alt or Not?

[jcarter1885 995]

I drive a 2003 Saturn Ion with a stock alternator 105Amps, I dont compete just daily driving and live in Dallas so my trips can be an hour or more(but not everytime I leave the house). Im planning on doing some electrical upgrades to the vehicle and just dont know how to go about it, so my SSA family help me out. I have a Sundown SAZ-200oD (200A), SAX-125.2 (60A) and a four channel in he future probably SAX100.4(90A), so I wanna plan these upgrades around all the three amps(around 350A, give or take a little) and not what I currently have.

Question #1: Do I need an High Output alternator or not, if so I have found a 200Amp one for my car and I will get that?

Question #2: If I get an 200A High Output Alternator, what batteries will I need to go with this setup (one stock plus two group 31's, one stock plus one group 31, or no stock and two group 31's)?

Question #3: If I dont get a High Output Alternator, what batteries will I need to go with this setup (one stock plus two group 31's, no stock and two group 31's)?

Before I made this post I was just gonna get rid of the stock battery since it is located in the trunk sharing the same area as the spare tire and getting just two group 31 batteries. So thanks guys for any input and pros/cons for going with a High Output Alternator if you recommend one or if you don't recomend one.

Edited September 2, 2009 by jay-cee

[hdrox88 142]

If it was me, I would get the HO alt and a couple good batteries. You could always install the amps and monitor voltage very closely while playing and go from there. Just don't let it dip too low.

[jcarter1885 995]

If it was me, I would get the HO alt and a couple good batteries. You could always install the amps and monitor voltage very closely while playing and go from there. Just don't let it dip too low.

I understand all that and appreciate the info just looking for some more direct answers (which I know is hard to get a correct answer without throwing batteries in and monitoring voltage but I just want a general idea of battery sizes and how many plus h/o alternator or battery sizes and how many minus h/o alterator)

[CrazyKenKid 64]

for the longest time i have never had a h/o on my grandam. my stock is also a 105amp alt.

my setup is a 100.4 and a saz2000 with 2 batcap 2000's in the rear and a stock battery in the front and a 15inch NS!

ever since i got the h/o alt (200amp) i have noticed my batteries staying at a higher voltage for longer!

with the stock alt my batteries held a 13.1 ish voltage at full tilt after playing for abuot 5mins ish. now with the new alt my batteries hold around 13.9ish!

but i only see those voltage at around 2000rpm's. like any alt you need to have your foot on the gas to get the full amperage!

[chris89127 2]

Get the HO alt it will do alot better charging those batts you are going to get.

[shizzzon 461]

if replacing the stock battery, you will need the following-

200-220A alt, 2 D3100s

Or

200-220A alt and a minimum of 220aH of battery total in the car.

Remember, try and never jam at idle. The more reserve you have in batts, the longer it takes to charge and more risk u run of overheating alternator if batts are discharged low.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

i didn't buy a H/O i got my stock alt upgraded to a h/o!! the upgrade kit costed me 55$ and labor was free! (i know the guy) if you pop into your local starter and alt shop just ask them about upgrading your alt rather then buying a h/o

[shizzzon 461]

for the longest time i have never had a h/o on my grandam. my stock is also a 105amp alt.

my setup is a 100.4 and a saz2000 with 2 batcap 2000's in the rear and a stock battery in the front and a 15inch NS!

ever since i got the h/o alt (200amp) i have noticed my batteries staying at a higher voltage for longer!

with the stock alt my batteries held a 13.1 ish voltage at full tilt after playing for abuot 5mins ish. now with the new alt my batteries hold around 13.9ish!

but i only see those voltage at around 2000rpm's. like any alt you need to have your foot on the gas to get the full amperage!

that goes to show u how undercharged they were using stock alt.

Using stock alt and only reading 13.1 as soon as alt is shut off is BAD... Either the batts were heavily discharged or the regulator was on the verge of breaking.

[shizzzon 461]

i didn't buy a H/O i got my stock alt upgraded to a h/o!! the upgrade kit costed me 55$ and labor was free! (i know the guy) if you pop into your local starter and alt shop just ask them about upgrading your alt rather then buying a h/o

That's not wise for longevity.

Did they change the rectifier, cooling, etc...?

If all they did is rewind it like nearly all local shops do then yea, it will do the amperage at max output, but idle will be VERY BAD compared to reputable companies and heat buildup will be worse than having one built from start.

[TechSys 3]

Get a HO alternator and 3 batteries (minimum). 1 would replace your current starter, other 2 in the back.

I've ran a xxx-4000d on a stock alt and 2 batteries. Voltage dipped lower than I liked when system at full tilt. Changed out to a 250amp alternator and voltage stays at 13.5 when system is at full tilt. Jumps to 14.5 when I bring the idle up a little.

Hope that helps

[CrazyKenKid 64]

i didn't buy a H/O i got my stock alt upgraded to a h/o!! the upgrade kit costed me 55$ and labor was free! (i know the guy) if you pop into your local starter and alt shop just ask them about upgrading your alt rather then buying a h/o

That's not wise for longevity.

Did they change the rectifier, cooling, etc...?

If all they did is rewind it like nearly all local shops do then yea, it will do the amperage at max output, but idle will be VERY BAD compared to reputable companies and heat buildup will be worse than having one built from start.

o no i got full upgrade of the alt. i knwo a rewind is what he wanted to do and i am like buddy! lol! he changed it all even some other things which i didn't take to memory. and yes i know at idle my alt doesn't seem to be the best but hey it gets my batteries to a steady 14.4-14.6 when my music is at about half way so the h/o definitialy does help out a lot in the charging!

[CrazyKenKid 64]

for the longest time i have never had a h/o on my grandam. my stock is also a 105amp alt.

my setup is a 100.4 and a saz2000 with 2 batcap 2000's in the rear and a stock battery in the front and a 15inch NS!

ever since i got the h/o alt (200amp) i have noticed my batteries staying at a higher voltage for longer!

with the stock alt my batteries held a 13.1 ish voltage at full tilt after playing for abuot 5mins ish. now with the new alt my batteries hold around 13.9ish!

but i only see those voltage at around 2000rpm's. like any alt you need to have your foot on the gas to get the full amperage!

that goes to show u how undercharged they were using stock alt.

Using stock alt and only reading 13.1 as soon as alt is shut off is BAD... Either the batts were heavily discharged or the regulator was on the verge of breaking.

after i learned that 13.1 = doom that is when i made up my mind to jsut get the upgrade to a h/o! and yes after playing at full tilt i let the car charge up the batteries some to at least 14.1volts before i shut off the car

and yes i do believe the batteries were around half way charged but then again i didn't slam my system ALL the time either. next thing for me to buy is a battery charger any thoughts? i am looking at a kinetik battery charger! (sorry to jack your thread for a second)

[shizzzon 461]

try to save ya some money-

This company is great for AGM use - http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-1000a.html

don't just go to a local store and buy an agm charger... some charge over 15v and isn't safe and some charge close to 15v constant which slightly degrades life of agm batteries as well.

This is the cheap alternative to spending a fortune on a suggested charger.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

try to save ya some money-

This company is great for AGM use - http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-1000a.html

don't just go to a local store and buy an agm charger... some charge over 15v and isn't safe and some charge close to 15v constant which slightly degrades life of agm batteries as well.

This is the cheap alternative to spending a fortune on a suggested charger.

wow that charger sounds pretty good!! and for 75$ nice deal! i knwo the kinetik one goes for about 100$ and the kinetik has a Reconditioning (Desulfation) which sounds pretty cool!

but i will do some looking into this one you suggested and i might jsut end up geting it if shipping to canada is resonable!

thanks!

Kenneth

[jcarter1885 995]

if replacing the stock battery, you will need the following-

200-220A alt, 2 D3100s

Or

200-220A alt and a minimum of 220aH of battery total in the car.

Remember, try and never jam at idle. The more reserve you have in batts, the longer it takes to charge and more risk u run of overheating alternator if batts are discharged low.

Thanks everybody for your input, H/O alternator will be purchased soon. I will be getting a 200A alternator. Quick question shizzzon, just wondering how do you calculate how much amp hours are needed for a system for my knowledge.

200 Amp Alternator + 2 XS Power D3100(117AH each) or 2 Shuriken SK-BT120(120AH each) = Good Enough.

[shizzzon 461]

the "rule of thumb" is to take your fuse ratings on your amps, divide them in half and that's your aH requirement.

I added 60aH more for the car's starting batt as that's about average.

The 100.4 and 125.2, i'm sure you are gonna be running those at 4 ohm so i took half it's rated power at 4 ohm rather than the fuse rating.

[jcarter1885 995]

the "rule of thumb" is to take your fuse ratings on your amps, divide them in half and that's your aH requirement.

I added 60aH more for the car's starting batt as that's about average.

The 100.4 and 125.2, i'm sure you are gonna be running those at 4 ohm so i took half it's rated power at 4 ohm rather than the fuse rating.

Actually I will probably be running them at 2ohms so what would this change, how much of an Ah rating now plus a 200Amp alternator?

[shizzzon 461]

at 2 ohm! OH NO!!! hehe.

At 2 ohm for the 125 and bridged on the 100... you would need 235aH

[jcarter1885 995]

at 2 ohm! OH NO!!! hehe.

At 2 ohm for the 125 and bridged on the 100... you would need 235aH

Lets do it this way, sorry for all this just want to get it right. How many AHs for each example?

Example 1: 125.2 ran at 2 ohms, 100.4 ran at 2 ohms per channel unbridged

Example 2: 125.2 ran at 2 ohms, 100.4 ran at 4 ohms per channel unbridged/bridged

Thanks man

Edited September 3, 2009 by jay-cee

[shizzzon 461]

it doesnt matter, you STILL need 2 D3100s, lol.

The variation in current draw is less than 15A on average

[jcarter1885 995]

ok appreciate ya, 2 XS Power d3100 it is.